I would assume the market is just too small right now for companies to jump in and develop big turbo setups for these cars. I agree though, looks pretty straightforward from a hardware perspective. Tuning might be a whole different beast, though.

Besides, until someone figures out how to get a larger\more effective water\air intercooler setup, it may be useless to develop a larger turbo setup.

Where did you see that the engine is forged, anyway? Hadn't read that before.

 

Market is not small to me. A bigger hybrid would be easy. If cooling is an issue upgrade the radiator/heat exchanger for AtoW cooler system or use dual port meth in the charge pipe that is under the engine cover in plain view.

Engine info on top of page 2
https://www.alfaromeousa.com/conten.../content/dam/alfausa/pdf/giulia/2018_AR_Giulia_SPsiqa0qm0tiibbrvjv0p8fou9fu.pdf

 

I think that market will open up when more of these become second hand, off warranty. I have the whole 9 with EC P2 and supporting mods, and I'm kind of afraid of pushing the transmission any further. I'd love the extra power but I don't think it would be worth the risk, and I am probably one of the less careful owners here.

Essentially, I don't think there are enough buyers for such things. 20 or 30 people on a forum saying they will buy just isn't enough interest for a major company to look in to this.

 

FYI the ZF can take it for anyone saying it can't. (No need for the QV trans) its the same if not slightly stronger than the ZF I had in my 335i and big turbo inline 6 pumping 460wtq. The right calibration on thia Gen2 ZF8 will hold up quite well to this 2.0T Multiair with a bigger turbo.

 

I think the real problem is with the break even, production market right now. Dealerships are closing as FCAs pulls back to optimize and cut the dead wood that did not produce. You see this in brake pad options and kits for otherwise new market brembo systems. Wheel options are also slim and I had to do custom work in both areas to get where I wanted to be last winter. Sit tight or go ahead and crack open your powerplant to start taking measurements and make stencil patterns. I just did a mod to make my side vents functional. Luckily Alfa left a skeleton that could take the wiper cowl mods without any cutting. The passenger side vent could also work with a new flat backing plate. I dremeled edge holes in the stock one instead but I might whip up a new plate down the road. I am pretty sure it could mount to the grill with small screws. MacGeek has access to the service manuals and I might just buy a CD/Stick next month. Mopar has them on the catalog site for $198. As long as you stick to IHI turbos, "Ingeniere" N. Materazzi from F40 fame will probably approve. Check out this interview with subs.

 

I think the real problem is with the break even, production market right now. Dealerships are closing as FCAs pulls back to optimize and cut the dead wood that did not produce. You see this in brake pad options and kits for otherwise new market brembo systems. Wheel options are also slim and I had to do custom work in both areas to get where I wanted to be last winter. Sit tight or go ahead and crack open your powerplant to start taking measurements and make stencil patterns. I just did a mod to make my side vents functional. Luckily Alfa left a skeleton that could take the wiper cowl mods without any cutting. The passenger side vent could also work with a new flat backing plate. I dremeled edge holes in the stock one instead but I might whip up a new plate down the road. I am pretty sure it could mount to the grill with small screws. MacGeek has access to the service manuals and I might just buy a CD/Stick next month. Mopar has them on the catalog site for $198. As long as you stick to IHI turbos, "Ingeniere" N. Materazzi from F40 fame will probably approve. Check out this interview with subs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlX-kgJuzxU

This is a GREAT video! Thank you for sharing it! I love the part where he told ZF to keep their trans; he would make his own, and he did. Oh to be able to do something like that! It illustrates what I believe and clearly he does, that it takes a single mind; a visionary who knows what he wants to accomplish to oversee projects like this. Design by committee is a lousy way to create products. Even if a group of people is working on it, doing the various things that each department is set up to do, it still takes a single mind to oversee what happens and why. Sergio was that visionary behind the Giulia, and the results show it. There's a unity; a consistency of form and function about it that makes it stand out. It's one of the things that attracted me to the car besides the test drive. The interior matches the feel of the exterior.

As for power, the video illustrates something else I've long known and pursued when modding my cars; weight reduction. As he said, it affects everything about the car's performance. For those looking for more power, try reducing unsprung weight; especially rotating weight, and the car with the power you already have will perform better. By upgrading to lighter wheels and brake rotors, I was able to remove almost 42 pounds of unsprung rotating weight. The rotors especially made more of a difference than I expected. The car feels lighter on its feet now. It rolls easier, quicker with less throttle input. Even in N mode, from a stop when I need to make a sudden move such as making a quick left turn when there's a gap in oncoming traffic, there's about a half second lag then boom the car goes. When I first got it without any of the mods I've made (V2 intake, EC P2 tune, Remus exhaust and weight reduction), I almost got hit when trying to do that same maneuver. When I pressed on the gas pedal, the car rolled forward a few feet and there was about a 2 second lag before it began to go under power. I didn't make that mistake again, and made sure there was plenty of room to get going after that. Now I don't worry about it; the car goes almost instantly. I do all this in N mode which has the normal P1 tune (not the dual map which has P1 D mode as N). In D mode it's another story. I just came back from a trip last week to Carson City, and there was a stretch of road where I got bogged down behind two semi's grinding along at 45-50. When a section opened up where I could pass, I put it in D mode and floored it. Half second lag then BOOM the car launched like a rocket. I went from 50-90 in just a few seconds and was easily able to pass both trucks with plenty of room to spare. The beauty of the non-QV is in the mid-range where I think they intended it to be. It's not an off-the-line car, nor is it a top end car.

Now that's the thing; this car isn't the QV, it was never meant to be. It isn't a muscle car; it's a beautiful 4 door sports sedan that has the heritage, soul and spirit of the racing history of a legendary marque. In my mind, it delivers that to a T. I love this car. For the mods I've put into it, it's just about perfect now. Wheels were about $800, intake and tune were about $1,600, exhaust was about $700, rotors were about $1,200, so for about $4,300 the car is simply beautiful in most every way. Not perfect; there are things that could be improved but I'm quite happy with it just as it is. It's my daily driver and performs like a champ in all seasons, all weather. Not something you'd be looking for in a 1/4 mile car, track car.

I think for the money some of you would have to put into the car to get it up to where you want it, what you really want is a QV which is the car they designed and intended for the customer like you. You can get new 2018's from dealers right now for as low as $55k from what I'm seeing, and it will have more than you could ever do to any regular Giulia which would probably cost you more than that to mod.

 

The ZF 8HP50 transmission is rated for 500 Nm or 368 LB-ft.
You would need an 8HP75 out of a QV (553 LB-ft) to get what you are looking for.
In that case just buy the QV to begin with and you would have your 505hp / 450tq

 

Why are there not full frame or at least hybrid turbo options and more robust custom tuning options for the 2.0T Giulia after a good 2 years? I'm finding it rather annoying that nothing has came to the market with these with such an easy turbo location for replacements and easy ecu to deal with similar to continental simos ecus. Even the downpipe options are sparse and it's only 2 bends with a funky turbine flange. This engine is after all fully forged; crank, rods, pistons with oil squirters which could easily support 500whp/450wtq with proper calibration/fueling.

The ZF 8HP50 transmission is rated for 500 Nm or 368 LB-ft.
You would need an 8HP75 out of a QV (553 LB-ft) to get what you are looking for.
In that case just buy the QV to begin with and you would have your 505hp / 450tq

True, about zf but not true, ec p2 tune is already over that 500nm torque, toby said they did contact zf or someone from there and said these transmissions can handle alot more than 500nm easly

 

My Hellcat I had comes with ZF 8HP95 rated for under 900Nm or so yet hundreds of owners put down 1100rwtq without issue on drag slicks/radials. The weak links are driveshaft and differential, not the trans. Experience with my 335i which had Gen 1 ZF 8HP50 not Gen 2 thays in the Alfas. The ZF is highly tunable.

Why are there not full frame or at least hybrid turbo options and more robust custom tuning options for the 2.0T Giulia after a good 2 years? I'm finding it rather annoying that nothing has came to the market with these with such an easy turbo location for replacements and easy ecu to deal with similar to continental simos ecus. Even the downpipe options are sparse and it's only 2 bends with a funky turbine flange. This engine is after all fully forged; crank, rods, pistons with oil squirters which could easily support 500whp/450wtq with proper calibration/fueling.

The ZF 8HP50 transmission is rated for 500 Nm or 368 LB-ft.
You would need an 8HP75 out of a QV (553 LB-ft) to get what you are looking for.
In that case just buy the QV to begin with and you would have your 505hp / 450tq

 

My Hellcat I had comes with ZF 8HP95 rated for under 900Nm or so yet hundreds of owners put down 1100rwtq without issue on drag slicks/radials. The weak links are driveshaft and differential, not the trans. Experience with my 335i which had Gen 1 ZF 8HP50 not Gen 2 thays in the Alfas. The ZF is highly tunable.

Good to know.
Then I wonder why Alfa has imposed such a huge torque limit in 1st gear. That’s plus the turbo lag kills a good second off the line.....

 

Why are there not full frame or at least hybrid turbo options and more robust custom tuning options for the 2.0T Giulia after a good 2 years? I'm finding it rather annoying that nothing has came to the market with these with such an easy turbo location for replacements and easy ecu to deal with similar to continental simos ecus. Even the downpipe options are sparse and it's only 2 bends with a funky turbine flange. This engine is after all fully forged; crank, rods, pistons with oil squirters which could easily support 500whp/450wtq with proper calibration/fueling.

The ZF 8HP50 transmission is rated for 500 Nm or 368 LB-ft.
You would need an 8HP75 out of a QV (553 LB-ft) to get what you are looking for.
In that case just buy the QV to begin with and you would have your 505hp / 450tq

True, about zf but not true, ec p2 tune is already over that 500nm torque, toby said they did contact zf or someone from there and said these transmissions can handle alot more than 500nm easly

Unfortunately it seems Euro Compulsion is not interested in pushing boundaries on this platform. Though the Euro shop bench flashers are also worse in this regard too so there's a leg to stand on at least.

I'm in talks with someone in the US who does MyGenius handhelds custom tunes like EC does unless EC wants to work with some of us trying to push the platform. I've talked to Greg and Toby first before anyone else and they don't seem to want to be leading the market as I gave them an option. Thus I'm left without choice to look elsewhere.

Even talked to HPTuner software company since they have massive tuning tables for the ZF8 tcu already on FCA/GM vehicles to see how much more complex the MM10 ecu is to their software.

 

Even talked to HPTuner software company since they have massive tuning tables for the ZF8 tcu already on FCA/GM vehicles to see how much more complex the MM10 ecu is to their software.

What did HPT respond with?

 

I understand what you're saying but isn't buying a QV an easier option, especially when prices for leftovers are low.

 

Can get brand new left over for $57k but you have active aero that's heavy and can malfunction, bigger brakes which makes fitting 18x9-10" wheels impossible, more complex exhaust, high maintenance engine with unknown reliability. It's more expensive to mod with needing 2 of everything and QV tax.

You would think qv would be a better solution, but modding and repair costs added the 2.0 explotation will be much cheaper parts wise

Correct if done right and chosen right companies to work with you can spend less and be very fast. I can find 2.0T engines for ~2,500. Or bare block and build them relatively easy.

I think what he is saying is why spend big $$$ on *big* modifications on a 2.0 when you can buy a (discounted) QV and keep it stock and still have more power/warranty/aero/race mode/etc etc.

I prefer the lighter weight and balance of the 2.0T and the torque. Also 1 turbo to upgrade, 1 downpipe and 1 cat to replace, easier catback setup. The engine in the 2.0T is full forged just like the QV. When driven normal it has better MPG around 10mpg better. 2.0T is a world engine platform and far more abundant and cheaper to replace/build. Insurance is less on car.

I hate when people say "buy a qv". Look, we all cannot afford a 50k+ car, that's the dumbest **** anyone can say in response to this thread or any thread that is about the 2.0. I wonder if people on the BMW threads that own m series cars say that **** to people that want to mod and own the 3 series cars.

I agree, I can afford 70k car like my Hellcat and many other cars I've bought and built but that is beyond the point. I bought my Ti Sport Q2 new in the 30s and with 10k or less in mods I would be as fast as QV or slightly faster with less headaches and QV tax. If and when come time to sell I can part out easier because there is a bigger pool of owners possibly willing to modify. I also had 2 BMW 335i both built on the N54 and N55 engine. The 328 N20 2.0T is also a very nice engine to modify. The CLA45AMG 2.0T is a great engine to modify and is derived from F1 tech too. I've also owned Evos which were 2.0T.

Ultimately I like to build things and push the boundaries Q2/Q4 or QV doesn't matter. I'm a bit thrown back at the lack of option on the market and underwhelming support for a hybrid turbo(at the least) at this stage of the platform which is what prompted me to make this post.
I've talked to thus far talked with
AMR Performance
Euro Compulsion
Burger Motorsports
HPTuners
And 2 other companies.

I also have 2 companies for turbo building and cooling that I have also reached out to which I will keep quite for now. For hybrid spec unit and possible radiator/heat exchangers for the oem AtoW cooler. There is no reason that I'm able to do this in less than 2 months of ownership when this car has been out for over 2 years. I'm also already FBO power mods; intake, downpipe, catback, plugs and tuner which is why I have the need for more power and cooling next.

 

You would think qv would be a better solution, but modding and repair costs added the 2.0 explotation will be much cheaper parts wise

 

I think what he is saying is why spend big $$$ on *big* modifications on a 2.0 when you can buy a (discounted) QV and keep it stock and still have more power/warranty/aero/race mode/etc etc.

 

I hate when people say "buy a qv". Look, we all cannot afford a 50k+ car, that's the dumbest **** anyone can say in response to this thread or any thread that is about the 2.0. I wonder if people on the BMW threads that own m series cars say that **** to people that want to mod and own the 3 series cars.

 

If looking to do custom turbos, IC, fueling, exhaust, etc you are looking at 10-15k+. What's the average price for a 2.0? The "buy a QV" argument isn't nonsensical for those looking to do these types of mods.

 

The stock QV also passes smog and won't get you a very expensive fine for violating federal smog laws and it is much less likely to blow up than a heavily modified 2.0T.

QV also gets you race mode, which lets you use all of that power.

I have a Q4 because I need AWD and I need good highway fuel economy. However, I definitely do not need modifications that are obviously illegal to use on the street anywhere in the USA. "I don't care about the risk to my finances" and "nobody enforces smog laws in my area" does not resolve the irresponsible risk to other people's health.

 

You have obviously never modded a car. I've never been one to buy a car and leave it the way it is. There are millions of car enthusiasts around the world that do exactly what you say is bad.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

This is the main reason I spent "up" on the Quad. Glad you like the video. I missed the part where he mentions the IHI turbos. The Kappa-KKs were not great. This must have been back on the 288 GTO/Evoluzione on the development path to the F40. I love when he tears up after telling how the Commendatore complimented him so well. A rare treat!

 

This is the main reason I spent "up" on the Quad. Glad you like the video. I missed the part where he mentions the IHI turbos. The Kappa-KKs were not great. This must have been back on the 288 GTO/Evoluzione on the development path to the F40. I love when he tears up after telling how the Commendatore complimented him so well. A rare treat! /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Goal is to pull a QV for $10k or less in parts. Safely.

 

Umm talking about weight, there was a thread where few of us went for a truck scales for approx weights, q4 without sunroof was still heavier than my rwd with sunroof with full tank of gas sitting at 3590lbs another guy weighted his q4 with sunroof, ended with 97lbs more with sunroof against the q4 without

 

Unfortunately Alfa Philly is right. I'm Q4 and EC Phase 2 and couldn't break 102. Tried manual shifting, letting the auto do the magic and a 1.9 60 foot and 13.5 1/4 was the best I could squeeze which was pretty disappointing. Car feels stupid strong on the street but not sure why she didn't have the sauce at the track. That time was the best of 4 runs. Everything else was high 13's..

If there are any questions on the launch...:

 

What tires, and what RPM did you launch at? 60ft is about the most important aspect of a 1/4 mile run.

 

I was launching at 2500RPM on a moist track, 50°F, with crap tires. No spin that I could detect. I would assume that you could launch closer to 3500 on a prepped track and better tires and knock .1 or .2 off that 60. That would result in a decent improvement, IMO...fwiw.

Fun though, right?!

 

Indeed. I may have had a better result in my 18" OZ's with 245 width Michelin's.

My buddy just picked up a 2019 Ti Sport Q4 and after driving mine, he did notice there was a massive lag in the lower end versus his car and I have the EC pedal modulator as well. I've noticed this in a couple loaner cars I've had but thought it was just placebo since those cars were quiet (I have a Remus race cat-back). I'm assuming it's a MY17 thing since a lot of people complain about it on here. Not sure if it's just throttle mapping or any hardware changes.. We haven't had time to play but I'm curious how he does against my dual mapped EC car. Will document for science.

 

Just checked DA at the time of my runs was 2701

 

Yeah, that’s not great. As we get into fall, it’d be interesting to see how much better your car performs with a DA under 1000.

 

does anyone know what is the max boost pressure which can give stock turbo ? i heard about 27.5 PSI,

 

At 7000' altitude I can get a 24PSI boost value with the engine at mid-range RPMs (4k or so). I have not tried at a lower altitude. The boost also tapers off at higher RPM; I see 18PSI at 7000' elevation at the redline.

These numbers are with EC P2 tune installed. I saw about 21PSI max stock.

All values reported by OBD2AA via torque via a bluetooth ELM adapter.

 

The new Supra has the same issues we have but have a bigger fallowing. I would look to them to find the answer we need with getting pasted the transmission limiter. I don't believe it's in the tune, but could be a physical limiter in the transmission itself. Tuning may get us past this or maybe taking it apart. The new c8 have a tq limit in the 1 to 2 shift also

 

i'm putting hybrid turbo in few days. we will see what gain of HP we have.

 

Any news

 

More downpipe options would be nice. Performance downpipes plus JB4 really made a huge difference with my E90 335i w/N54 (3.0TT) engine. Plus, sounded a lot better even with otherwise stock exhaust.

 

i got downpipe and 3" till end.

 

Did you have to get a tune with the downpipe? And is it catless

 

where did you get the turbo and the downpipe?

 

Here in NY we are working on couple different turbo setups. Also a set of Pistons are in the makings at CP. Pistons to lower compression a bit and be lighter. Stock Pistons pretty heavy. We'll start dynoing in next month or so. Can't see why there wouldn't be a nice stage 2 or 3 set up for having somewhat safe 400whp deal. I'll post some dynosheets as soon as we are done 👊

 

It's from focus RS 2.3 ecoboost.
But there is problem with intake temp. It's very high.

I think we need to change water cooler on front.

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It's from focus RS 2.3 ecoboost.
But there is problem with intake temp. It's very high.

I think we need to change water cooler on front.

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Are you using the stock IAT numbers or did you add a sensor? The stock IAT sensor is on the hot side of the intercooler.

 

I know that there is on hot, but it's still hot... now I changed tuner becuase my previous was piece of shit.
I will inform in 2-3weeks. I'm waiting in queue.
But I got info also that fuel is not enough. But all information will be after new tune.

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