Alfa Romeo Giulia Forum banner

1 - 20 of 66 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Why are there not full frame or at least hybrid turbo options and more robust custom tuning options for the 2.0T Giulia after a good 2 years? I'm finding it rather annoying that nothing has came to the market with these with such an easy turbo location for replacements and easy ecu to deal with similar to continental simos ecus. Even the downpipe options are sparse and it's only 2 bends with a funky turbine flange. This engine is after all fully forged; crank, rods, pistons with oil squirters which could easily support 500whp/450wtq with proper calibration/fueling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
I would assume the market is just too small right now for companies to jump in and develop big turbo setups for these cars. I agree though, looks pretty straightforward from a hardware perspective. Tuning might be a whole different beast, though.

Besides, until someone figures out how to get a larger\more effective water\air intercooler setup, it may be useless to develop a larger turbo setup.

Where did you see that the engine is forged, anyway? Hadn't read that before.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I would assume the market is just too small right now for companies to jump in and develop big turbo setups for these cars. I agree though, looks pretty straightforward from a hardware perspective. Tuning might be a whole different beast, though.

Besides, until someone figures out how to get a larger\more effective water\air intercooler setup, it may be useless to develop a larger turbo setup.

Where did you see that the engine is forged, anyway? Hadn't read that before.
Market is not small to me. A bigger hybrid would be easy. If cooling is an issue upgrade the radiator/heat exchanger for AtoW cooler system or use dual port meth in the charge pipe that is under the engine cover in plain view.

Engine info on top of page 2
https://www.alfaromeousa.com/content/dam/alfausa/pdf/giulia/2018_AR_Giulia_SPsiqa0qm0tiibbrvjv0p8fou9fu.pdf
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
I think that market will open up when more of these become second hand, off warranty. I have the whole 9 with EC P2 and supporting mods, and I'm kind of afraid of pushing the transmission any further. I'd love the extra power but I don't think it would be worth the risk, and I am probably one of the less careful owners here.

Essentially, I don't think there are enough buyers for such things. 20 or 30 people on a forum saying they will buy just isn't enough interest for a major company to look in to this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,541 Posts
I think the real problem is with the break even, production market right now. Dealerships are closing as FCAs pulls back to optimize and cut the dead wood that did not produce. You see this in brake pad options and kits for otherwise new market brembo systems. Wheel options are also slim and I had to do custom work in both areas to get where I wanted to be last winter. Sit tight or go ahead and crack open your powerplant to start taking measurements and make stencil patterns. I just did a mod to make my side vents functional. Luckily Alfa left a skeleton that could take the wiper cowl mods without any cutting. The passenger side vent could also work with a new flat backing plate. I dremeled edge holes in the stock one instead but I might whip up a new plate down the road. I am pretty sure it could mount to the grill with small screws. MacGeek has access to the service manuals and I might just buy a CD/Stick next month. Mopar has them on the catalog site for $198. As long as you stick to IHI turbos, "Ingeniere" N. Materazzi from F40 fame will probably approve. Check out this interview with subs.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
185 Posts
Why are there not full frame or at least hybrid turbo options and more robust custom tuning options for the 2.0T Giulia after a good 2 years? I'm finding it rather annoying that nothing has came to the market with these with such an easy turbo location for replacements and easy ecu to deal with similar to continental simos ecus. Even the downpipe options are sparse and it's only 2 bends with a funky turbine flange. This engine is after all fully forged; crank, rods, pistons with oil squirters which could easily support 500whp/450wtq with proper calibration/fueling.
The ZF 8HP50 transmission is rated for 500 Nm or 368 LB-ft.
You would need an 8HP75 out of a QV (553 LB-ft) to get what you are looking for.
In that case just buy the QV to begin with and you would have your 505hp / 450tq
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
FYI the ZF can take it for anyone saying it can't. (No need for the QV trans) its the same if not slightly stronger than the ZF I had in my 335i and big turbo inline 6 pumping 460wtq. The right calibration on thia Gen2 ZF8 will hold up quite well to this 2.0T Multiair with a bigger turbo.

I think that market will open up when more of these become second hand, off warranty. I have the whole 9 with EC P2 and supporting mods, and I'm kind of afraid of pushing the transmission any further. I'd love the extra power but I don't think it would be worth the risk, and I am probably one of the less careful owners here.

Essentially, I don't think there are enough buyers for such things. 20 or 30 people on a forum saying they will buy just isn't enough interest for a major company to look in to this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Why are there not full frame or at least hybrid turbo options and more robust custom tuning options for the 2.0T Giulia after a good 2 years? I'm finding it rather annoying that nothing has came to the market with these with such an easy turbo location for replacements and easy ecu to deal with similar to continental simos ecus. Even the downpipe options are sparse and it's only 2 bends with a funky turbine flange. This engine is after all fully forged; crank, rods, pistons with oil squirters which could easily support 500whp/450wtq with proper calibration/fueling.
The ZF 8HP50 transmission is rated for 500 Nm or 368 LB-ft.
You would need an 8HP75 out of a QV (553 LB-ft) to get what you are looking for.
In that case just buy the QV to begin with and you would have your 505hp / 450tq
True, about zf but not true, ec p2 tune is already over that 500nm torque, toby said they did contact zf or someone from there and said these transmissions can handle alot more than 500nm easly
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
My Hellcat I had comes with ZF 8HP95 rated for under 900Nm or so yet hundreds of owners put down 1100rwtq without issue on drag slicks/radials. The weak links are driveshaft and differential, not the trans. Experience with my 335i which had Gen 1 ZF 8HP50 not Gen 2 thays in the Alfas. The ZF is highly tunable.

Why are there not full frame or at least hybrid turbo options and more robust custom tuning options for the 2.0T Giulia after a good 2 years? I'm finding it rather annoying that nothing has came to the market with these with such an easy turbo location for replacements and easy ecu to deal with similar to continental simos ecus. Even the downpipe options are sparse and it's only 2 bends with a funky turbine flange. This engine is after all fully forged; crank, rods, pistons with oil squirters which could easily support 500whp/450wtq with proper calibration/fueling.
The ZF 8HP50 transmission is rated for 500 Nm or 368 LB-ft.
You would need an 8HP75 out of a QV (553 LB-ft) to get what you are looking for.
In that case just buy the QV to begin with and you would have your 505hp / 450tq
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
185 Posts
My Hellcat I had comes with ZF 8HP95 rated for under 900Nm or so yet hundreds of owners put down 1100rwtq without issue on drag slicks/radials. The weak links are driveshaft and differential, not the trans. Experience with my 335i which had Gen 1 ZF 8HP50 not Gen 2 thays in the Alfas. The ZF is highly tunable.
Good to know.
Then I wonder why Alfa has imposed such a huge torque limit in 1st gear. That’s plus the turbo lag kills a good second off the line.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I suspect the carbon driveshaft, wheel hop and hard launch could break it? I plan to test that theory in some way shape or form on some old 17" MickeyET Street Rs. 😆 I suppose I could try pulling ABS fuse and/or put dyno mode and send it.


My Hellcat I had comes with ZF 8HP95 rated for under 900Nm or so yet hundreds of owners put down 1100rwtq without issue on drag slicks/radials. The weak links are driveshaft and differential, not the trans. Experience with my 335i which had Gen 1 ZF 8HP50 not Gen 2 thays in the Alfas. The ZF is highly tunable.
Good to know.
Then I wonder why Alfa has imposed such a huge torque limit in 1st gear. That’s plus the turbo lag kills a good second off the line.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
I suspect the carbon driveshaft, wheel hop and hard launch could break it? I plan to test that theory in some way shape or form on some old 17" MickeyET Street Rs. 😆 I suppose I could try pulling ABS fuse and/or put dyno mode and send it.


My Hellcat I had comes with ZF 8HP95 rated for under 900Nm or so yet hundreds of owners put down 1100rwtq without issue on drag slicks/radials. The weak links are driveshaft and differential, not the trans. Experience with my 335i which had Gen 1 ZF 8HP50 not Gen 2 thays in the Alfas. The ZF is highly tunable.
Good to know.
Then I wonder why Alfa has imposed such a huge torque limit in 1st gear. That’s plus the turbo lag kills a good second off the line.....
Had a car show over the weekend, so I put it into Dyno mode. Needless to say I had some fun. Lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Why are there not full frame or at least hybrid turbo options and more robust custom tuning options for the 2.0T Giulia after a good 2 years? I'm finding it rather annoying that nothing has came to the market with these with such an easy turbo location for replacements and easy ecu to deal with similar to continental simos ecus. Even the downpipe options are sparse and it's only 2 bends with a funky turbine flange. This engine is after all fully forged; crank, rods, pistons with oil squirters which could easily support 500whp/450wtq with proper calibration/fueling.
The ZF 8HP50 transmission is rated for 500 Nm or 368 LB-ft.
You would need an 8HP75 out of a QV (553 LB-ft) to get what you are looking for.
In that case just buy the QV to begin with and you would have your 505hp / 450tq
True, about zf but not true, ec p2 tune is already over that 500nm torque, toby said they did contact zf or someone from there and said these transmissions can handle alot more than 500nm easly
Unfortunately it seems Euro Compulsion is not interested in pushing boundaries on this platform. Though the Euro shop bench flashers are also worse in this regard too so there's a leg to stand on at least.

I'm in talks with someone in the US who does MyGenius handhelds custom tunes like EC does unless EC wants to work with some of us trying to push the platform. I've talked to Greg and Toby first before anyone else and they don't seem to want to be leading the market as I gave them an option. Thus I'm left without choice to look elsewhere.

Even talked to HPTuner software company since they have massive tuning tables for the ZF8 tcu already on FCA/GM vehicles to see how much more complex the MM10 ecu is to their software.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
My Hellcat I had comes with ZF 8HP95 rated for under 900Nm or so yet hundreds of owners put down 1100rwtq without issue on drag slicks/radials. The weak links are driveshaft and differential, not the trans. Experience with my 335i which had Gen 1 ZF 8HP50 not Gen 2 thays in the Alfas. The ZF is highly tunable.

Why are there not full frame or at least hybrid turbo options and more robust custom tuning options for the 2.0T Giulia after a good 2 years? I'm finding it rather annoying that nothing has came to the market with these with such an easy turbo location for replacements and easy ecu to deal with similar to continental simos ecus. Even the downpipe options are sparse and it's only 2 bends with a funky turbine flange. This engine is after all fully forged; crank, rods, pistons with oil squirters which could easily support 500whp/450wtq with proper calibration/fueling.
The ZF 8HP50 transmission is rated for 500 Nm or 368 LB-ft.
You would need an 8HP75 out of a QV (553 LB-ft) to get what you are looking for.
In that case just buy the QV to begin with and you would have your 505hp / 450tq
I imagine the Guilia RWD platform would benefit from a differential brace just like the Hellcat. Definitely cured my axle hop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,504 Posts
I understand what you're saying but isn't buying a QV an easier option, especially when prices for leftovers are low.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
You would think qv would be a better solution, but modding and repair costs added the 2.0 explotation will be much cheaper parts wise
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
My Hellcat I had comes with ZF 8HP95 rated for under 900Nm or so yet hundreds of owners put down 1100rwtq without issue on drag slicks/radials. The weak links are driveshaft and differential, not the trans. Experience with my 335i which had Gen 1 ZF 8HP50 not Gen 2 thays in the Alfas. The ZF is highly tunable.

Why are there not full frame or at least hybrid turbo options and more robust custom tuning options for the 2.0T Giulia after a good 2 years? I'm finding it rather annoying that nothing has came to the market with these with such an easy turbo location for replacements and easy ecu to deal with similar to continental simos ecus. Even the downpipe options are sparse and it's only 2 bends with a funky turbine flange. This engine is after all fully forged; crank, rods, pistons with oil squirters which could easily support 500whp/450wtq with proper calibration/fueling.
The ZF 8HP50 transmission is rated for 500 Nm or 368 LB-ft.
You would need an 8HP75 out of a QV (553 LB-ft) to get what you are looking for.
In that case just buy the QV to begin with and you would have your 505hp / 450tq
On the Hellcats, as long as the transmission tuner was good and didn’t burn a ZF up is what I recall. They have to have a record of success.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,073 Posts
You would think qv would be a better solution, but modding and repair costs added the 2.0 explotation will be much cheaper parts wise
I think what he is saying is why spend big $$$ on *big* modifications on a 2.0 when you can buy a (discounted) QV and keep it stock and still have more power/warranty/aero/race mode/etc etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
I hate when people say "buy a qv". Look, we all cannot afford a 50k+ car, that's the dumbest **** anyone can say in response to this thread or any thread that is about the 2.0. I wonder if people on the BMW threads that own m series cars say that **** to people that want to mod and own the 3 series cars.
 
1 - 20 of 66 Posts
Top