Tonights adventure in driving:

The Ceika rotors performed admirably. I heard a faint squeak twice, but nothing obnoxious.

However after passing a line of cars on a grade when I let off the accelerator the car threw 2 errors and dropped into limp mode. On the display it said "auto start-stop not available (orange)" and "check electronic throttle (red)". Shortly there after I heard a "pop" sounding like the lid popping off of a plastic food storage container. I limped to a familiar gas station and hooked up my multi-ecuscan. It said the engine error code was P0039, turbo vacuum (?!) fault. I presume that this means that my turbo waste valve got stuck either open or closed. I cleared the error, the car exited limp mode and drove 92 more miles without any other faults. I did not try to figure out how to clear the auto start-stop fault and it persisted to the end of my drive.

Any ideas regarding what the pop sound might have been?

 

Update:

Got P0039 error again yesterday, under very similar circumstances. I guess I should have the dealer look at it. Still no solid news on the availability of a GFB valve.

On better news I got a 1.00 gs lateral force (still not sliding) on my Michelin A/S 3+ tires while navigating a decreasing radius turn (25MPH? too busy to read the speedo).

Got 0.98 gs later on the same drive in a sharp 90 degree turn; although this time with more sliding than I care for. Still, I managed to keep all 4 wheels on the pavement in spite of the 10' wide lane with no paved shoulder.

Low temps are already in the 30Fs around Bridgeport.

 

Dawydiak SF indicated that there is a TSB or some such for the P0039 CEL. They ordered a fix it kit. They really wanted me to bring the car in without clearing the error, but I do not see a reasonable way to make that happen or to replicate the circumstances that cause the error (sustained full throttle followed by sudden let off of the throttle.

I just completed installation of a Blackvue 900S 2ch using mirror tap wiring and blendmount bracket. Be sure to order the "3030" Euro style bracket for Giulia and mount it tight against the windshield pod cover. Mirror tap black and red to chassis side mirror connector black and blue respectively. Use the smallest mirror tap spades. Small needle nose pliers make installation easier. I got the 15 inch mirror tap, but the 10 inch will probably work. The mirror pod comes off easily with the assistance of a thin, pointed trim removal tool, pushed into the slightly wider than nominal gap between the center piece and main piece at the top rear. Doing this on each side releases the center piece and once the center piece is out the large piece easily pulls off. Wiring it this way does not allow the park mode record to work since the power will be off when the car is parked.

The Blackvue rear camera cable is long enough to accommodate a bus. I wonder if a shorter cable is available. Getting the cable around the A pillar covers is an adventure as the cover is not easy to snap back in after it is released. There is only 1 snap that restrains up-down movement and that is the one that has to be released to get the cable around it. Some trial and error jiggling the cover up and down to get the snap back in is required. A smooth trim tool is also needed to keep the headliner tucked in neatly.

I bought an extension part to make the blendmount fit nicely, see the picture. Angle the bracket as far forward as possible to allow minimal obstruction of mirror movement. Overall this is a tidy but rather pricey install. The camera still hangs down below the bottom of the mirror slightly, but not obtrusively. The camera can be installed upside down and backwards to put it entirely out of the driver's view, but now way into the passenger's view, less stable and very hard to push the wifi on switch.

I cut a tiny notch in the big pod cover in order to cleanly feed the cable out.

Blendmount BBV-3030
Blendmount Extension BM-SP-0001
Mirror Tap MTX-2015

28F on Sonora pass 10/7 evening.

 

Out of shear laziness last night, I drove down my 7% grade dirt driveway with my Q4 with about 20MPH on the clock.
When I got to the 50' radius turn* she was not happy and understeered dramatically. At least I didn't hit anything except some grass. I thought this car was designed to oversteer. I get oversteer uphill with throttle on pavement; maybe downhill on dirt is different?

No warning lights regarding the loss of traction, btw.

* I used a stick and a 50' long string to lay it out, it is definitely 50' radius to the center line.

 

The whole car is going to get very light on a grade like that. If you want oversteer, load up the front a little with some braking. BTW, on the track I found the QV to be a little understear-biased in neutral conditions. A little braking helps the car rotate nicely.

 

Just got my car back from service (Dawydiak) for the P0039 "turbo vacuum valve fault" repair. They got advice from AR Italy on the subject. What they did was replace the "turbo surge valve", which I presume is the intake bypass valve that sends pressurized intake air back to the turbo inlet when the ECU activates it. I've seen a ridiculous number of names for this valve. If there was only 1 valve that would be fine, but there is also a wastegate on the exhaust side of the turbo charger to confuse the whole nomenclature issue.

Anyway the first large difference that I noticed is that the "rattlesnake" sound my car was making under 1/2 throttle uphill is essentially gone (very faint, rarely heard, easily not noticed). Noting that everybody else asked "what rattlesnake sound?" I take it that the sound was abnormal and that the valve is now fixed. I also take it that I am the one and only "lucky" recipient of such a defective valve.

Dawydiak claims they heard a "grinding noise" coming from my Ceika rotors. I hear no such sound, but maybe I'm deaf. At speed the curved vane rotors might be expected to make a little noise due to the increased air movement, but again I do not hear it.

 

you need front end traction to use the brake pedal to cause slight rotation.

try using the other pedal, it works much better at inducing oversteer as long as you haven't gone in too fast to start with .....

I hope you guys don't drive on snow etc.

 

Stirred up an old thread, but yes, this. Downhill especially gets the front end light and you'll need to add some weight to it with the brakes.

 

I think you both need to spend some time leaning vehicle dynamics/traction/weight transfer etc on a small and slow dirtbike (xr-80ish), where you are less likely to hurt yourself or someone else.

 

Would you care to enlighten us with what's actually happening, or is an irrelevant cryptic comment all we get?

edit: And some googling does tell me that my theory behind the behavior is probably quite incorrect, although it's not clear to me why exactly. But, I would genuinely like to hear an explanation from someone with experience.

 

What is this affiliate program that was mentioned in an earlier post? The link appears to be dead now.

 

what is relevant is that
a - you have less traction going downhill
b - you have less traction on a slippery surface

if you have much less traction, you are not likely to generate the braking forces necessary for the rear end to lighten enough to cause any rotation. if you are entering the corner too fast , it's not going to matter much anyway.

you are likely to end up in a ditch - if you are lucky..

I'd hate to see a 19 year old follow ANY internet lessons and slide off Mulholland or any other youtube favorite 'how fast can you go place", which is sadly common in the days of nannie equipped cars with airbags etc, and internet/goproego.

I'm serious about learning on a little dirtbike - internet tutorials don't cut it, even IF (rare) they are correct in (partial) theory, and I wouldn't consider video games to be useful in understanding advanced applied physics - a skateboard is far better.

 

Try www.treadlightly.org. I just confirmed if you join a $100 membership at least 30 days prior to taking delivery you will enjoy 1.Dealer invoice pricing-1% and 2. Only a documentation fee added on to the price. I received this information from www.fcausaffiliates.com. (888) 444-4321.

 

Somehow activity in this thread is not showing up in my regular Giulia Forums thread activity search.

Regarding treadlightly, the discount only applies if your dealer is an FCA affiliates program participant. Do not believe any "we will look into it" statements from the dealer prior to placing an order; they are either participating or not. At last check Niello Maserati-Alfa in Sacramento is not a participant.

The dynamics of dirt bikes is so dramatically different from automobiles that I am not convinced that training on one helps with the other. The huge differences on a dirt bike are that you can move the CG around, you lean into turns, and there are only 2 wheels (extremely narrow wheel base).

I would think that a go kart or ATV would be a better way to learn to performance drive a car. As a teenager I drove both go karts and dirt bikes, but never got very proficient with the go kart. It was a long time ago either way and I doubt that I have retained any of the all important "muscle memory".

I am also not certain why traction should be reduced when going down hill. I see that weight (and therefor traction) is transfered from the rear wheels to the front and that will obviously alter vehicle dynamics (this will change the camber which in turn may alter tire traction on hard surfaces), but for ordinary grades total traction should remain about the same. The perpendicular loading on the wheels is reduced by cos(angle) for uphill or downhill, but even at an extremely steep 30% grade that yields a mere 4% reduction. On the subject 7% grade the reduction is 0.0001%.

I would think that transferring weight to the front wheels would increase the tendency to oversteer, the opposite of what I observed. My Q4 is a little front heavy, so maybe the slope had nothing to do with the understeer behavior? Prior to this I have only made the wheels slip on dry, hard pavement.

Use cos(atan(grade/100)) to find the fraction of weight of the vehicle that is perpendicular to the ground.

 

Traction is reduced when going downhill because some portion of gravity is no longer pushing the weight of the car on the road and is instead pushing it forward. Taking an extreme, picture a car on an 80 degree downslope. At that point there is almost no gravity applying the car to the road.

As for weight transfer, if you have at least a decent amount of useable traction, you could apply some brake to get weight transferred of front and trail brake to hopefully get some rotation. Once that happens, I suppose you could use the throttle to step it out further.

Contrary to some horrible advise in this thread, if you give it much gas while the car is still going straight or plowing, it's never going to turn as there won't be enough weight left on the front wheels. You'll just go straight faster and it won't end well.

Note from this site (what they are cautioning against is what you are looking to do): https://jalopnik.com/how-to-use-weight-transfer-to-keep-your-car-out-of-a-di-1661353271

"Caution: The more weight you put on the front end, and the more abruptly you do it, the lighter the rear end becomes. This can easily lead to oversteer, where the back end of the car gets so light that it slips out of line and the vehicle starts to spin sideways down the road. This happens more often downhill, when driving cars that are naturally lighter in the rear (front-wheel drive cars and pickup trucks), and on off-camber surfaces."

--beaups

 

Traction is reduced when going downhill because some portion of gravity is no longer pushing the weight of the car on the road and is instead pushing it forward. Taking an extreme, picture a car on an 80 degree downslope. At that point there is almost no gravity applying the car to the road.

...
--beaups

Thanks. I already gave the gravity equation:

Weight on tires = weight of vehicle * cos(atan(grade/100))

For a 7% grade this works out as

cos(atan(7/100)) = 0.99755 (not 0.999999 as I got the first time I calculated it, I must have pushed the wrong key in calculator). Even so, this is a trivial 0.24% reduction in the weight on the tires.

Note that for your 80degree slope (567% grade) this comes to 0.173 and you will clearly slide down such a hill.

I was driving on a dirt driveway with lots of loose material, made worse by the guys who placed my underground power lines having used the berm next to the curve as a storage area for sand. The cars slide was stopped by the berm, otherwise I would have found out how much damage sliding into sage brush can do. The "berm" is all of 1" high, so it is not as-if the slide was totally out of control. The surprise was that the front slid, not the rear; that it slid was not a surprise.

 

I was driving on a dirt driveway with lots of loose material, made worse by the guys who placed my underground power lines having used the berm next to the curve as a storage area for sand. The cars slide was stopped by the berm, otherwise I would have found out how much damage sliding into sage brush can do. The "berm" is all of 1" high, so it is not as-if the slide was totally out of control. The surprise was that the front slid, not the rear; that it slid was not a surprise.

So "loose" vs. "push".

?

Please provide more information.

Front slide = understeer = push. Rear slide = oversteer = loose.

Hope this helps. I thought these would be familiar terms.

 

use my suggestion to actually learn something.

 

the only horrible advice lockem has got here is from you, beaups.

of course lockem and you probably miss the big point from earlier, "as long as you haven't gone in too fast to start with .....'

you would both be better off learning to operate a motor vehicle that is small, slow, and not where anyone else is being put in danger, rather than relying on google to feel clever.

 

So "loose" vs. "push".

 

?
Please provide more information.

 

better an "angry guy" pointing out you haven't the faintest effing idea what you are talking about, than relying on the wrong google answers to validate your errors.
you (and your google buddy) are a hazard, the sooner you realize it the better.

 

As predicted, again no substantiation or useable informantion. Only name-calling.

Go ahead and keep using the gas pedal to turn your car on declines with limited traction and Darwin will end the argument for us.

 

We really need a major national Alfa meet up with plenty of games and events so people can settle things in person.

Drag races
Track racing.
Apparently dirt bike racing now?!
Boxing (20oz gloves) prolly too heavy for some of you lol
Fastest typing word per minute.
Potato sack races
Team tug of war
BB gun on soda cans shootout
Bocce
Horshoes.

For the older members we will have wine tastings and cheese boards. Maybe Chinese raffle some Andrea boccelli memorabilia.

 

?
We have to add pissing contest to the list

Seriously guys, take it down a notch and disagree respectfully

 

HM yeah we are screwed

 

@lockem since you're a math guy, you'll probably enjoy this (linked from "further reading" on Wikipedia's trail-braking page): http://dcsl.gatech.edu/papers/ecc07a.pdf

 

Reminds me of the scandinavian flick: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_flick
Those Finnish rally drivers don't know all those formulas but sure know how to drive on low traction

 

anybody who's been on here a long time knows that no one drives faster than lockem, on the most challenging roads in the world - and that was when he was in his protege.

I would be afraid to be anywhere near him, as even anti-lock brakes can't overcome stupid. beaups hasn't been around as long, but anybody who is telling someone they need more brakes to transfer more weight to the front - when it's already washed out ....it does scare me that they make cars so nannied up to protect fools from themselves that the fools start to think they are beyond competent, when the reality is they are beyond incompetent.
I wouldn't want to be anywhere near these guys with a motor vehicle - and I wouldn't want anyone to think they have the faintest idea what they are doing, or any understanding of almost anything they type about, because they don't.

but like the onion, there are always those who will think it's real because they don't know any better.

 

As prescribed, more insults and no actual logic or data provided to support your position. Although this is new:

telling someone they need more brakes to transfer more weight to the front - when it's already washed out

It's easy to counter someone's argument when you misquote them. When did I state to apply brakes *while* the car is pushing? The idea is to brake late and hold it through the start of the turn....the rear end will come around nicely. And you use the throttle to help straighten the car, not to introduce oversteer.

Have you driven a giulia in these conditions? Do you even own a giulia?

--beaups

 

enjoy your ditches, boys.
some refuse to learn, and I'm not wasting anymore of my time trying to get you guys to think - and learn in a safe environment.

 

Back to the subject of the Blackvue dashcam installation, while I am still wasting time and money on shortening the Blackvue rear camera cable I found this online:

https://www.cdint.com/catalog/model/MC9MC9-174TPR-10

For the positions that I mounted my cameras, this is the right length and much cheaper than DIY after tools, time, etc. Note that the Blackvue cable is twice this length.

 

Here are the latest updates on my car:
A few weeks after a rock hit the windshield, a crack formed almost all of the way across. Get those chips repaired promptly. I was quoted $1700 for the part and have been waiting almost 5 weeks for it to arrive.

Oil level too high activated 110 miles after an oil change by Dawydiak.
Dawydiak says the 60k miles to spark plug change for MY2019 is retroactive.to earlier model years.
New 3 inch long rim scrape courtesy of Dawydiak (yes, I took a picture).

I replaced a number of lightly loaded fasteners with aluminum. The weight savings is trivial, but the bright aluminum fasteners sure look good. Fasteners that amount to something weight wise include the 6 that hold the top of the front fascia (nearly 1 pound for the 6) and the 19 (!) that hold the front underpan (a couple of pounds worth). These painted steel fasteners tend to rust and have bulky heads that make them heavy. The non-standard shape makes them not so easy to replace with aluminum though, I am still working on it.

The Michelin PS A/S 3+ tires now have over 12000 miles on them and should last several thousand more, compared to the mere 8600 miles that I got out of the OEM tires. Traction is still very good, but they have gotten noisier as they wear. Sonora Pass is finally open, and I was able to peg the "g-meter" at least once on the first try.

The Xpel wrap is showing some signs of wear. A small area around the left rear wheel well has come loose. 3 impacts (2 on the right rocker cover and 1 on the front fascia) cut through the Xpel, but do not appear to have damaged the paint underneath.

My order for a Titanium Fiamenghi exhaust is progressing, albeit slowly. More on this when something is delivered. It should save quite a bit of weight while also providing both loud and quiet noise settings. More on this as it develops.

 

I had to use Google to find this thread. It seems that the new forum software search is even worse than the old software search.

Here are some fun pictures from my most recent drive over the hill.
Somebody at Caltrans thinks they are funny (please pardon the bug smears on the windshield). The sign reads 26% grade ahead

If the above isn't clear enough, that is a downgrade semi-truck warning sign turned 90 degrees so that the truck points almost straight up.

Got snow? Note the date (the time is off for some reason). About 0.6-0.7 gs at the speed shown.

 

I have started a quest to determine why my fuel economy is inferior to what other forum members have reported. Cruising at 70MPH on level ground I get 30MPG indicated, while other members report 35-37MPG.

My first check was to replace the spark plugs. This took me about an hour, including the time required to find the tools and figure out what I was doing. Notes beyond what @Alfissimo has posted:

The turbo bypass vent pipe needs to be disconnected. I found that a stout trim tool does a good job of prying this rubber hose loose without any concern about prying against the expensive, plastic intake duct. You need pliers to deal with the hose clamp.

The electric connector on the ignition coils defied removal. There was enough slack on all of the pigtails to remove the coils, so this did not get in the way of completing the work.

The electric connector on the turbo bypass solenoid needs to be disconnected. It was in the way of both #2 and #3 cylinder work. I have a GFB DV+ valve, without which cylinder #3 may have been accessible without disconnecting the connector.

None of the spark plugs showed significant wear. All of them showed a little carbon, although #4 was cleaner than the others.

#2 plug was not as tight as the others.

All of the plugs had some yellow di-electric gel on the top.

All of the new and old plugs were gapped correctly.

When I pulled the #4 coil an oak tree leaf and a ball of fuzz popped out. I looked around but did not see any more detritus nor any evidence regarding how it got there.

I did not notice any improvement in fuel economy after this work.

Hopefully I will be able to check that the rear differential turns freely and has good lubrication in it next weekend.

 

Lately mine has settled down to about 28-30 normally. Longer trips will get me to only 32 now. You're not too far off. Do you take advantage of sailing? I do.

 

What is wrong with this picture (besides being blurry)?

Once there is less than 4mm of brake pad left, won't the rotor cut into the brake wear sensor wire? What am I missing?

 

That's basically the idea. Wire shorted to ground (rotor) is the what trips the pad replacement message. It's quite archaic compared to comparable systems, but there's really no excuse to need an alert on a fixed caliper setup (IMO).