[DragonKart]

OK - I charged the battery, took a good long drive, and closed the hood firmly (not necessarily in that order). The low tire pressure message went away. The CEL and the Auto Start/Stop messages still remain. I have an OBD2 reader coming tomorrow - and I will get the specific error codes with that. On my drive - the tune was very evident. I will later post my full impressions - but its great so far.>

 

[scotchri]

understandable, but I think that I as well as others would prefer to know something like this sooner than later.

tbh I've put well over 200 miles on the car and I'm still not totally satisfied with the tune.

is there any possibility that you guys have even a rough estimate for how long P2 is gonna take to fully develop?
It seems like that's where the real meat is at and I don't want to be waiting too anxiously if in reality it's not gonna be released for another 6 months... or longer.

also think it'd be pretty cool if you guys actually let us know what's going on behind the scenes rather than completely surprising us after months of hyping something up, kinda like what Apple does w their products.
I know it's probably part of your business model or whatever but I can assure you that regardless of how you present a product to us, as long as it's quality like everything else you put out, we'll be buying it.

Do yu have the exhaust and V2 in addition to the tune? I have a base Giulia with the V2 and exhuast. i recently had to take it in to the dealer for first maientenacne and oil change. Two days later I had to takee it back to the dealer due to a ratlle in the engine post oil change. I have 10k milles on her and have ahd the V2 and exhaust from Euro since the two products came out (September and October respectively).

Let me say that on the first trip for the oil change I received a loaded stevlio and it sucked ass compared to my base giulia (Q4) with the V2 and exhaust. The Stelvio was slow, acceleration was gimpy and I could not pass or switch lanes to get over like I could in my car. I chalked it up to the Stelvio being a much bigger and heavier vehicle then mine and more of a touring or cruising SUB. But on the secnd trip to check out what the issue was with the tapping noise in the engine (mind you this was Thursdday) post oil change, I was given a loaded TI and it also drove similar to the Stelvio. Let me tell you the difference between my car (Base Q4, with V2 and exhaust) and the TI is night and day. I still had the same acceleration lag, slow wind up of the turbo and RPMs and just simply does not allow me the comfort and quicker speed to pass or merge in front of people. Everything is almost as if the car is moving in slow motion. Though I will say the TI is much firmer/stiffer than mine (huge plus along with the dampers and stiffer steerig), but that is about it. It's so bad that I wont drive the loaner, i've gone back to my 2006 IS 350 because I know that with it I can pass without hesitation or get on it with out some one blowing me off the road because I just got in front of them and I cant seem to pick up enough speed to pull away and not get rear ended or force them to slow down. As you can see from the picutre that giulia loaner is all the way in the back behind a 12 year old Lexus that I'd gladly drive before bringing the loaner back out; It just does not pull or feeel like my car and I'd rather not get hit trying to switch lanes or merge into oncomming traffic in DC.

Don't get me wrong the Giulia is a beautifully designed and dope as car It's just hard for me based on my experiences the last two weeks to go back from the two bolt on Mods to stock! But it could also be drivers preference! But I would by a base stock over anything else out there!

I say all this to say that if you don't have the exhaust or V2, you may not be experienceing as much of the full potential of the tune. If you do, then, I'll be right here with you asking for and waiting for the P2 tune once I've installed it and expereince anything similar to what you are experiencing But I'm just saying from stock to V2 and exhaust, it really is night and day.

Thats all. I have no affiliation to EC whatsoever, just an honest review and assesment.

P.S. I'm fully aware that these are 1st world problems!:|

 

[scotchri]

OK - I charged the battery, took a good long drive, and closed the hood firmly (not necessarily in that order). The low tire pressure message went away. The CEL and the Auto Start/Stop messages still remain. I have an OBD2 reader coming tomorrow - and I will get the specific error codes with that. On my drive - the tune was very evident. I will later post my full impressions - but its great so far.>

Shoot that sucks if you gotta flash back to stock to allow the dealer to clear the CEL, but not really since you are enjoying the tune and I'm not! LOL

>

 

[Racer Z]

Now it Drives Like an Alfa!

"Now it drives like an Alfa!", my friend said right after a 0-80 mph run.

Thanks for the vote of confidence and that good feeling deep within somewhere.

To be fair, my friend doesn't drive and has never owned a car. The only other Alfa he has ever been in is my 2015 4C, which has the EC P1 tune on it. He has a lot of seat time in both cars though.

 

[JohnnyTheBeast]

@Eagle7 you made some really good points, allow me to elaborate.

first off, I'm in the dry cleaning business. when a customer brings in their clothes, we don't just give them an estimated date, but rather a guaranteed date on which their garments can be picked up. I understand that tuning a car could be a lot more complicated than dry cleaning, but believe me, every business has bumps in the road. not a month goes by that I don't have some specialized machine or necessary component break down on me. it could be something as simple as a little nut that got loose or an entire boiler literally exploding (yes, it's happened). regardless, I gave my loyal customers a specific date on which their garments will be ready and I'll be damned if anything causes us to miss that deadline.

that being said, not asking for a specific date, but at least an idea so I can start to figure out what I can do with my car in regards to other modifications.

I've mentioned it before, but my car is a Stock Giulia Sport with RWD.

With all respect to EC and their team, products like Air Intakes and Cat-Back Exhaust Systems have generally been proven to be complete rip-offs. I can totally confirm this statement, not only from professional research that has been conducted, but lot's of personal experience modifying cars as well.

I wouldn't be opposed to installing a custom exhaust, but these 4 bangers aren't exactly the best sounding engines in the world in the first place, and I honestly don't think there's a single system on the market that would do a better job than something my guy could put together for me.

I think that should answer a few questions.

 

[Eagle7]

Well there's a difference between providing a service, and inventing something that doesn't exist yet. Worse comes to worse, you as a cleaner can take garments to another service just to make sure you deliver what you promised on time. That's not an option for an inventor.

I don't know what kind of experience you've had with CAI's and exhausts, but from my experience they can and do make a difference IF they're designed well, and IF you've done something to your engine that takes advantage of what they do. A stock intake and exhaust is designed to work with the airflow rates the stock engine needs. There's also the issue of noise which requires designing for reduced sound levels, so manufacturers usually go conservative. Adding an intake or even just a better filter to a stock car, usually makes at best, a subtle difference.

I can tell you for an absolute fact, that the Eurocompulsion V2 intake makes a difference you can actually feel, and that's on an otherwise stock car. I'm going to be installing their tune here (hopefully tomorrow) and I'll be able to report how that goes. However from my past experience with mods, whenever you increase the performance of the engine, it automatically needs more air, and the ability to push that increased air out. It can certainly run with stock intakes and exhaust, but since you're increasing power, you always look at upgrading the intake and exhaust too. The downside is an increase in noise.

The goal for an intake, is to remove resistance to airflow, but also maintain or improve flow rate. This is why better filters compared to stock are used, and in some cases, the entire intake to the manifold is replaced, as in the case with the V2. They've tuned the airflow, pressure level and velocity with their V2 that makes more of a difference on this engine, than any CAI I've used in the past on any other car. I almost always do intake and exhaust together, so there aren't any bottlenecks, and I can always tell the difference in smoothness and response of the engine. The fact that I've just done the intake only on this car and seen such an improvement, is quite impressive. When you see the product, this isn't some quickie slapped-together metal shop product. This was expensive to develop and produce. It works, and it works well.

I expect to get more out of the tune because it can get more air easier due to their V2 intake, but there will be some restrictions since I have the stock exhaust. I have to decide what I'm actually going to use this car for. Do I really need maximum power all the time? Or at any time really? Honestly, no I do not. How often am I going to be in a situation where I will be pushing what it will do as-is? In reality, not too often. So for me, I really don't need the extra few hp and torque the exhaust would add. I absolutely don't want the added noise or possible resonance.

There's much more to an exhaust than pipe size and fitment. If you're going to have a custom exhaust made, make that your last mod so your 'guy' can tune it to whatever else you've already done to your engine. I've seen custom exhausts actually hurt performance because they were either put together by someone who didn't understand the science behind a proper system, or they designed one for what was on the car at the time, and later all kinds of engine mods were added.

It's up to each individual to decide what they want from their car, and what compromises they're willing to live with as far as noise versus performance. I love the feeling of being inside my car the way it is. I honestly can't think of anything else I would want to do to it after this tune.

 

[Greg@Eurocompulsion]

I'll make a few points,

We have been very clear that we dynoed this car with an upgraded intake and exhaust. We know those products add power on these cars, and that's our recommended combination with this tune. If you run Phase 1 without those upgrades, that's fine, nothing will go wrong, but you won't have as much power.

On this car, the intake and exhaust we suggest both add some power. I am sure there some products that don't add power, but I don't think you can make a blanket statement that all of these types of products have been proven to be a "rip-off". I am sure that some are, but go to any race track. Try and find a car that's winning in any motorsports event with a stock intake and exhaust system in a class that allows modifications. It's not unheard of, but it's pretty rare.

Regarding Phase 2 we can't reveal a lot of details for exactly the reasons Eagle7 outlined. The main reason is that the product doesn't even exist yet. If we say anything specific now, and then something changes during development, somebody is going to feel cheated. We have been through this before, even when we made things better than forecast, people complained! They complained that that they wasted money buying something else when they should have waited for our product. As crazy as that sounds, people were angry, and we are not going to do it again. As we can't be 100% certain about the final product, it's best if we just don't say anything.

Now, if anyone is really curious about the direction we are likely to go with Phase2, you can look and see what we have done in the past. We released Phase 1 and then Phase 2 for the Alfa 4C, Fiat 500 Abarth, and Fiat 124/124Abarth. You can probably assume to an extent that we are not going to change our entire business model for the Giulia so with that information you can get some idea of what Phase 2 is going to look like and or require. That's the best I can offer you at this time.

Greg

 

[scotchri]

@Eagle7 you made some really good points, allow me to elaborate.

first off, I'm in the dry cleaning business. when a customer brings in their clothes, we don't just give them an estimated date, but rather a guaranteed date on which their garments can be picked up. I understand that tuning a car could be a lot more complicated than dry cleaning, but believe me, every business has bumps in the road. not a month goes by that I don't have some specialized machine or necessary component break down on me. it could be something as simple as a little nut that got loose or an entire boiler literally exploding (yes, it's happened). regardless, I gave my loyal customers a specific date on which their garments will be ready and I'll be damned if anything causes us to miss that deadline. It's simply not professional.

that being said, not asking for a specific date, but at least an idea so I can start to figure out what I can do with my car in regards to other modifications.

I've mentioned it before, but my car is a Stock Giulia Sport with RWD.

With all respect to EC and their team, products like Air Intakes and Cat-Back Exhaust Systems have generally been proven to be a complete rip-off. I can totally confirm this statement, not only from professional research that has been conducted, but lot's of personal experience modifying cars as well.

I wouldn't be opposed to installing a custom exhaust, but these 4 bangers aren't exactly the best sounding engines in the world in the first place, and I honestly don't think there's a single system on the market that would do a better job than something my guy could put together for me.

I think that should answer a few questions.

@JohnnyTheBeast I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Yes, I too was skeptical for all the reasons you pointed out..., but thought let me try these and worst come to worst I can return the V2 and at least have a better sounding vehicle than stock. but as I said in my earlier post, maybe 3 posts back, having my car and going back to stock (two different loaners Stelvia and Loaded TI) there is a huge night and day difference in how the car feels, pulls and has the ability to pass Cara and switch lanes.

If you were close by I'd surely let you try her out with the two installed so you could see for yourself. Though the noise may not be for you, but I love it.

Thanks for your insight though and the level of due diligence you're bringing out in this conversation.

 

[alfa55]

The V2 intake and Corsa Exhaust are complete ripoffs? Professional research? My butt dyno says otherwise as does the real thing. Note to self, bring my clothes elsewhere.>

 

[scotchri]

The V2 intake and Corsa Exhaust are complete ripoffs? Professional research? My butt dyno says otherwise as does the real thing. Note to self, bring my clothes elsewhere./forum/images/GiuliaForums/smilies/tango_face_devil.png

I think the conversation is useful in pointing out that in some instances it is true some vendors can upsell/be misleading about their products, and make claims that their exhaust and CIA makes unreasonable stupid amounts of power and etc. However, based on the two products from
EUROCOMPULSION (CIA and exhaust) that I have on my car cimpared to two separate stock AR vehicles (Stelvia and TI) this is definitely not the case. I can't speak to exact numbers, ECs dyno can do that, but based on the feel and how I drive, the two make a very noticeable difference in acceleration and power.

I'd just say it's hard to knock something if you have not tried it, this goes for anything. One thing I've learned in my young life is that quality engineering and production can make a world of difference between two products built to do the same thing.

 

[JohnnyTheBeast]

@Eagle7 and @scotchri

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that modifications to a car's intake system does absolutely nothing at all, but the actual amount of power gained from such a product is almost always negligible, especially when you have a stock airbox as effective as the one AR dropped in the base Giulia.

Furthermore, I drive my babe much harder than most people on this forum. To me, every stop light is like a Christmas tree on a drag strip, which means I probably hear the sound of my air intake a lot more often than you guys even hear that of your V2s. I genuinely love that blow off valve sound but at some point, it becomes extremely annoying, especially when you live in a city like LA. I decided to install a CAI on one of my cars a few years ago just to see if it would make any difference, it failed to do that but certainly succeeded in completely driving me mad.

My main point of all this was to determine if I would absolutely have to make some sort of modification to the stock intake system in order to allow my car to run the Phase 2 tune. I'll do almost anything in the name of more power, but please let me keep my sanity.


btw @Greg@Eurocompulsion, I've already read through the descriptions of the Phase 2 Tune for all of those cars multiple times over. From what I've put together, P2 won't even be a big deal, rather Phase 2 Plus is where you guys are gonna be hiding the good stuff.

 

[scotchri]

@Eagle7 and @scotchri

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that modifications to a car's intake system does absolutely nothing at all, but the actual amount of power gained from such a product is almost always negligible, especially when you have a stock airbox as effective as the one AR dropped in the base Giulia.

Furthermore, I drive my babe much harder than most people on this forum. To me, every stop light is like a Christmas tree on a drag strip, which means I probably hear the sound of my air intake a lot more often than you guys even hear that of your V2s. I genuinely love that blow off valve sound but at some point, it becomes extremely annoying, especially when you live in a city like LA. I decided to install a CAI on one of my cars a few years ago just to see if it would make any difference, it failed to do that but certainly succeeded in completely driving me mad.

My main point of all this was to determine if I would absolutely have to make some sort of modification to the stock intake system in order to allow my car to run the Phase 2 tune. I'll do almost anything in the name of more power, but please let me keep my sanity.


btw @Greg@Eurocompulsion, I've already read through the descriptions of the Phase 2 Tune for all of those cars multiple times over. From what I've put together, P2 won't even be a big deal, rather Phase 2 Plus is where you guys are gonna be hiding the good stuff.

Hahaha I agree every red light is a ready, set, go and launch for me. Had a civic kitted out tried to race me in the TI this morning. I was annoyed not having my car. But I hear you in that regard @Johnny.

Thanks for contributing to the discussion. Hopefully the tune adjusts itself and you find greater favor with it or the P2 tune down the road.
/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

[alfa55]

After a while it's"just buy a Quad already".

 

[K04Alpha]

I don’t doubt the v2 intake adds power to the vehicle. For me it’s a dollar to HP/TQ ratio. Usually intakes and exhaust are negligible in performance. Let’s be honest, the majority of people do exhaust systems for a better sound. Especially when considering an axel back exhaust. The best bang for your buck power wise is absolutely the tune. From there you have to decide for yourself if spending 429$ for an intake or 800-1000 for an exhaust is worth it. I know for me, the the tune outweighs both by far. That’s why I did a quick muffler delete for added exhaust note. I’m happy with it and can reverse it if eventually I’m not.

 

[alfa55]

I don’t doubt the v2 intake adds power to the vehicle. For me it’s a dollar to HP/TQ ratio. Usually intakes and exhaust are negligible in performance. Let’s be honest, the majority of people do exhaust systems for a better sound. Especially when considering an axel back exhaust. The best bang for your buck power wise is absolutely the tune. From there you have to decide for yourself if spending 429$ for an intake or 800-1000 for an exhaust is worth it. I know for me, the the tune outweighs both by far. That’s why I did a quick muffler delete for added exhaust note. I’m happy with it and can reverse it if eventually I’m not.

I don't see an increase of 29hp negligible with the V2 and Corsa. The bottom line is I'm very glad I did them.

 

[K04Alpha]

I don't see an increase of 29hp negligible with the V2 and Corsa. The bottom line is I'm very glad I did them.

Sorry, negligible is the wrong word. But my point is they are small in comparison to the tune overall. If you can and want to afford both, who cares? I’m sure your car feels and sounds great. At the end of the day it’s your money and your car. Just voicing my individual opinion.

 

[toby@eurocompulsion]

@Eagle7 and @scotchri

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that modifications to a car's intake system does absolutely nothing at all, but the actual amount of power gained from such a product is almost always negligible, especially when you have a stock airbox as effective as the one AR dropped in the base Giulia.

Furthermore, I drive my babe much harder than most people on this forum. To me, every stop light is like a Christmas tree on a drag strip, which means I probably hear the sound of my air intake a lot more often than you guys even hear that of your V2s. I genuinely love that blow off valve sound but at some point, it becomes extremely annoying, especially when you live in a city like LA. I decided to install a CAI on one of my cars a few years ago just to see if it would make any difference, it failed to do that but certainly succeeded in completely driving me mad.

My main point of all this was to determine if I would absolutely have to make some sort of modification to the stock intake system in order to allow my car to run the Phase 2 tune. I'll do almost anything in the name of more power, but please let me keep my sanity.


btw @Greg@Eurocompulsion, I've already read through the descriptions of the Phase 2 Tune for all of those cars multiple times over. From what I've put together, P2 won't even be a big deal, rather Phase 2 Plus is where you guys are gonna be hiding the good stuff.

At the very least, Phase 2 will require upgraded filter media. Regardless of what you may think about an intake system, the stock filter is made for filtration, not for optimum flow. That doesn't mean it's ineffective. This is per FCA powertrain engineering data, and our own testing.

In the case of the Giulia, the way we roll out Phase 2 will not be the same as we have done on other vehicle platforms. The reason more has come in the form of Phase 2 add ons on other platforms is simply the progression of development. The Giulia will not be this way. As we have not yet determined what our plans are for upgraded turbos, intercooling, etc, Phase 2 for the Giulia will be max performance on the stock turbo. I'm going to safely get as much as possible out of the car, so you can rest easy.

I do not yet know what modifications will be required for Phase 2, but I can tell you in absolute certainty you will need upgraded filter media. In addition to our in-house testing, P1 and P2 are undergoing durability testing by an independent third party, on a completely stock Giulia. This will allow us to provide more flexible data on power output and mechanical limitations for those like you who will be keeping your modifications limited. This way you know exactly what you're capable of achieving on your setup.

Because of certain circumstances and developments, I am beginning P2 much sooner than I originally expected (started last week). My goal is to have it completed some time in April, but I'm not promising anything. Bottom line, these things need adequate testing, and I do not want to rush or reveal things prematurely, just for the sake of revealing them. At the moment, here is what I can tell you:

-P2 will require upgraded filter media at the very least.
-P2 will achieve max power of what the stock turbo/intercooler/transmission can safely handle
-Additional features: raised rev limit, park/neutral rev limit raised, stop/start will default to off when the car is started, you can turn it back on by using the button
-Pops and bangs add on (additional fee, and this will not be worth it to you with the stock exhaust)

Will you make more power with an intake and exhaust? Yes, the dyno testing shows gains, that's just how it is. If we add anything to the car in addition to the tune, it's because it helps the car operate more efficiently than it could be, and maximizes power. Otherwise we wouldn't bother. If you don't want to run these items for whatever reason, that is your choice.

That is what I can share at the moment, and all of the above are items I am testing to ensure they work properly, thus it is pending and not set in stone. I will share more information when I have more that I am able to share. For now, that's it, and it's subject to change.

 

[Racer Z]

First and foremost, this thread is not about intakes and exhausts, it's not even really about the P2 ECU, it's all about the P1 ECU that EuroCompulsion sells. Yes, how does the P1 tune work with different intakes and/or exhausts is valid discussion and can be included here to some extent. But, this isn't the thread to argue those details.

Second, once there is a good product, of any type, such as the stock intake & exhaust on the Giulia, it's much easier to make a worse product than it is to make a better product. For any ten companies claiming to make a better product, only one or two actually will, the others will be equal or worse.

When it comes to power gains (any type of performance improvements really), it's not a 2+2=4 thing. It's more like,
- The first 2 hp will cost $20
- The second 2 hp will cost $200
- The third 2 hp will cost $2000
- Now we have 6 hp at a cost $2220, or more.
Ok, so that's not exactly correct, but you get the idea.

When inventing, or developing something new, there are always unforeseen hurdles, delays and setbacks. Yes, EC has a good idea on where and how their going and what they want in the end, but, it's best they don't make any promises.

 

[TheSach]

What is the best exhaust to replace the stock exhaust. I do not want anything that would be overly loud. I just want something more throaty. I have the V2 intake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[alfa55]

What is the best exhaust to replace the stock exhaust. I do not want anything that would be overly loud. I just want something more throaty. I have the V2 intake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Here we go again.