Has anyone upgraded the pads and/or rotors on the Q4 yet? I am looking for pads that that will be good for daily driving but also stand up to a few (3-4) HPDE days a year. I've been looking around but really haven't found any options aside from stock.
Nik
Not I. We have a Ti Q2 which will be seeing some more track time soon. My wife will be in a driving school for two days. It will be very hard on the brakes. I'll know more after the weekend of the 15-16 of this month (October). Currently OEM pads. I suspect the steel rotors are just fine for most track use with no reason to replace them until they wear out.
The pads on the other hand, are street pads, probably a street-performance pad. My experience with street pads and street performance pads is that they don't do well on the track when at speed. That of course depends on many variables.
- The track and it's layout (braking points, turns and straights)
- Driver skill and habits
- The pad itself
- Tire choice
The tire plays a much larger role in braking than most give credit for. On the track, we brake as hard as we can without skidding the tire. Street tires have low traction therefore low braking forces and low heat. As we graduate into sticky competition tires, we can brake much harder without skidding the tires, therefore creating more heat at the pad and rotor.
- Street pads can't handle the heat and breakdown.
- Street performance pads can deal with more heat, and are a good choice for the beginner as they can be used on the street and track.
- Eventually, an actual track pad will be needed. But, true track pads can't be used on the street just like true track tires can not. This means more preparation before and after a track event. This is one of the many reasons why I have a dedicated track car.
But, for now my wife who is just barely getting her feet wet, will be using street performance tires (none OEM) and the OEM pads.
The pads on the other hand, are street pads, probably a street-performance pad. My experience with street pads and street performance pads is that they don't do well on the track when at speed. That of course depends on many variables.
- The track and it's layout (braking points, turns and straights)
- Driver skill and habits
- The pad itself
- Tire choice
The tire plays a much larger role in braking than most give credit for. On the track, we brake as hard as we can without skidding the tire. Street tires have low traction therefore low braking forces and low heat. As we graduate into sticky competition tires, we can brake much harder without skidding the tires, therefore creating more heat at the pad and rotor.
- Street pads can't handle the heat and breakdown.
- Street performance pads can deal with more heat, and are a good choice for the beginner as they can be used on the street and track.
- Eventually, an actual track pad will be needed. But, true track pads can't be used on the street just like true track tires can not. This means more preparation before and after a track event. This is one of the many reasons why I have a dedicated track car.
But, for now my wife who is just barely getting her feet wet, will be using street performance tires (none OEM) and the OEM pads.
With 14 months, 24k miles, and 2 track days on my car I'm down to about 4mm on my pads, so I guess for now I will likely have to swap stock pads and hopefully by next spring there will be more aftermarket options. Both my track days were at Lime Rock and with my low amount of experience I definitely wasn't using my brakes to their full potential but they worked for what I needed. In my next track days I really want to focus on brake points so I believe the stock pads won't be adequate anymore, though I might not be at a level requiring dedicated track pads.
I have been running the Firestone Firehawk Indy500 tires which have performed exceptionally well in my inexperienced perception, but after the last track day they're pretty cooked so I will have to look into more options for next season. A dedicated track car is something I will hope to build up to in the future. The Giulia is definitely providing a great learning experience for now.
I have been running the Firestone Firehawk Indy500 tires which have performed exceptionally well in my inexperienced perception, but after the last track day they're pretty cooked so I will have to look into more options for next season. A dedicated track car is something I will hope to build up to in the future. The Giulia is definitely providing a great learning experience for now.
I have Ceika light weight slotted rotors in my Q4 and cannot say enough good things about them.
No sign of the "wavy" wear seen in the above OEM rotor. The slotting is the key to this.
Almost no rust.
5 pounds/rotor lighter front, 2.5 pounds/rotor lighter rear.
Vented with internal vanes (OEM has easier to fabricate simple pillars).
Looks awesome.
I cannot say if they will hold up better on the track or how they affect pad wear. The cast iron is a little thinner than OEM, so I do not know if it is wise to ever turn them; note that much of the weight reduction comes from the aluminum hat. The reduced unsprung weight reduces wheel hop noticeably which improves traction and thus braking and acceleration. At about $1350 for the set, they are about the same price as OEM. I suspect you can order fronts only if you want. If I read correctly, replacement rings are about 2/3rds of the price of the complete rotor; although replacement bolts may be necessary too.
These are solid mount hats, which is not ideal for tracking/racing. Ceika makes floating rotors, but I do not know if they can make them for Giulia.
At last check these were not on their website. I was still able to order them by emailing them the dimensional information that @MacGeek provided. Now that they have that information you can probably simply order them by saying you have a 4 cylinder Giulia type 952. Use their contact page.
No sign of the "wavy" wear seen in the above OEM rotor. The slotting is the key to this.
Almost no rust.
5 pounds/rotor lighter front, 2.5 pounds/rotor lighter rear.
Vented with internal vanes (OEM has easier to fabricate simple pillars).
Looks awesome.
I cannot say if they will hold up better on the track or how they affect pad wear. The cast iron is a little thinner than OEM, so I do not know if it is wise to ever turn them; note that much of the weight reduction comes from the aluminum hat. The reduced unsprung weight reduces wheel hop noticeably which improves traction and thus braking and acceleration. At about $1350 for the set, they are about the same price as OEM. I suspect you can order fronts only if you want. If I read correctly, replacement rings are about 2/3rds of the price of the complete rotor; although replacement bolts may be necessary too.
These are solid mount hats, which is not ideal for tracking/racing. Ceika makes floating rotors, but I do not know if they can make them for Giulia.
At last check these were not on their website. I was still able to order them by emailing them the dimensional information that @MacGeek provided. Now that they have that information you can probably simply order them by saying you have a 4 cylinder Giulia type 952. Use their contact page.
Porterfield Brakes has brake pads in stock to fit most every car. They can custom make any brake pad. They also carry other brands that they don't make. I don't see our Giulia in their current selection though.
I have their street performance pads (R4-S) on my 4C and like them. This includes some track use but mostly DD.
I've had their track pad (R4) on my 240z and they didn't do well with the heat. This is a dedicated track car. Currently using Raybestos race pads, but I can't remember the pad number. They handle the heat well. The Z has solid, non-vented rotors which is why there is so much heat.
Summit Racing doesn't have any brake pads to fit our Giulia. Hmm.
Even Madness Autoworks doesn't sell pads to fit. I'm beginning to think nobody has pads to fit yet.
I have their street performance pads (R4-S) on my 4C and like them. This includes some track use but mostly DD.
I've had their track pad (R4) on my 240z and they didn't do well with the heat. This is a dedicated track car. Currently using Raybestos race pads, but I can't remember the pad number. They handle the heat well. The Z has solid, non-vented rotors which is why there is so much heat.
Summit Racing doesn't have any brake pads to fit our Giulia. Hmm.
Even Madness Autoworks doesn't sell pads to fit. I'm beginning to think nobody has pads to fit yet.
As of today, I do not see any track pads for a Giulia Ti online. My go to for track and racing has always been Carbotech. They have nothing for Giulia yet, but since these brakes are made by Brembo, I do not think that it will be difficult for Carbotech to make a track pad fitment for the Alfa. Just eyeballing the pad, it looks to be almost identical in size and design as the size CT1001 (XP10) that my 05 Subaru STi uses - also Brembos. This Alfa uses positioning tabs/hooks instead of holes for the guide pins, but I wonder if these are interchangeable? To answer this question I could try to install the CT1001 size on my Alfa, but I am too lazy, so maybe someone else out there could give it a try.
I would not expect the stock brake pads to last long at the track, these are low-dust street pads. I do think that the Brembos on the Giulia are probably up to the task with a good set of track pads and fresh high temp fluid, but none are available yet so this is all hypothetical. Plus, I am not taking any car to the track, which the ESC and TC can not be turned OFF. I did 2 laps at Nurburgring in a track-prepped Subaru BRZ with ESC interfering at every corner, and it slowed me down a lot and made me nauseous. Took most of the fun out of the experience. 10 more laps with the ESC OFF was amazing and fast, as was the track.
If I get bored, and decide to investigate the Carbotech CT1001 size, Ill post results
I would not expect the stock brake pads to last long at the track, these are low-dust street pads. I do think that the Brembos on the Giulia are probably up to the task with a good set of track pads and fresh high temp fluid, but none are available yet so this is all hypothetical. Plus, I am not taking any car to the track, which the ESC and TC can not be turned OFF. I did 2 laps at Nurburgring in a track-prepped Subaru BRZ with ESC interfering at every corner, and it slowed me down a lot and made me nauseous. Took most of the fun out of the experience. 10 more laps with the ESC OFF was amazing and fast, as was the track.
If I get bored, and decide to investigate the Carbotech CT1001 size, Ill post results
The word from the QV side of this forum is that the QV rear calipers are the same as our Ti front calipers. That would be the NA based 2.0 Giulia. There is a small selection for the QV, but nothing for our rears as of yet. The one guy that has been experimenting with 'other' pads to fit his QV, has done a lot of modification to make the 'other' pads fit. So, not exactly a direct fit. The 'other' pads came from a non-Alfa, BTW.
For your reading pleasure -> https://www.giuliaforums.com/forum/481-alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio/39808-preparing-stock-qv-brakes-hpde.html
For your reading pleasure -> https://www.giuliaforums.com/forum/481-alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio/39808-preparing-stock-qv-brakes-hpde.html
The drilled holes provide a place for hairline cracks to start.
Street pads don't work well on the track, they can't handle the heat. I've tracked cars with street pads, I've killed several sets in a single event. I had my wife's Giulia Ti on the track over the weekend. A two day event and I cooked the front pads into charcoal. Not unexpected really. But, they still worked good enough to drive home. The rotors are fine BTW, just need front pads and to bleed the brakes.
Street pads don't work well on the track, they can't handle the heat. I've tracked cars with street pads, I've killed several sets in a single event. I had my wife's Giulia Ti on the track over the weekend. A two day event and I cooked the front pads into charcoal. Not unexpected really. But, they still worked good enough to drive home. The rotors are fine BTW, just need front pads and to bleed the brakes.
Well, I did not get drilled rotors exactly because of the stress issues. Slotted rotors just have the slot in the surface. The slots give excessively hot fragments of brake material and off gassing material a place to go rather than being dragged between the pad and the rotor and degrading brake performance in the process.
The key to brake performance (assuming sensibly designed brakes) is not area so much as heat dissipation. The Ceika rotors are vented unlike the OEM rotors and that can decrease rotor temperatures significantly, especially on the track where speeds are high.
I believe that grooving of the rotors is likely to increase noise from the brakes. Perhaps not so much a performance issue, but it still is a consideration.
The key to brake performance (assuming sensibly designed brakes) is not area so much as heat dissipation. The Ceika rotors are vented unlike the OEM rotors and that can decrease rotor temperatures significantly, especially on the track where speeds are high.
I believe that grooving of the rotors is likely to increase noise from the brakes. Perhaps not so much a performance issue, but it still is a consideration.
I got the black finish as the color stays in the slotted grooves, outer edge of the rotor, inside the drill holes etc. basically all surfaces not in contact with the brake pad itself
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Well I just ordered a set; they were on sale plus I got $50 off for ordering for the first time. Price should be $1,110 for a full set; I'm waiting for confirmation from the seller.
I got an email from the seller that the website has an error; you can't choose the colors for the OEM replacement rotors. The rotors only come with the black anti-corrosion treatment on them like you see in A7f4's pic. You can't get them without that or change the color. I guess you can get either a silver or black hat since A7f4 got them in silver; I ordered black. I also chose the curved slots and holes. There are several choices for holes and slots including none.
It says on the website it takes 40 days to make a set plus 3-5 days for shipping. Shipping was free.
I got an email from the seller that the website has an error; you can't choose the colors for the OEM replacement rotors. The rotors only come with the black anti-corrosion treatment on them like you see in A7f4's pic. You can't get them without that or change the color. I guess you can get either a silver or black hat since A7f4 got them in silver; I ordered black. I also chose the curved slots and holes. There are several choices for holes and slots including none.
It says on the website it takes 40 days to make a set plus 3-5 days for shipping. Shipping was free.
Did you install them yourself or have it done elsewhere? Lighter rotors will in fact bring out even a slight imbalance in the wheels because the rotors aren't 'holding things down' as much so to speak. There's also the distinct possibility that the computer has to learn the changes, as it's currently expecting the weight and performance of the rotors that were on there. Got a pic of them installed?
Last fall I determined that pads for the Giulia Ti were just about impossible to get. This included the rears for the Quad. I custom made a set and I'm seriously thinking of taking a welding class or just buying a bench top system. Rock Auto emailed me to tell me they were out of stock and unavailable. No back orders.
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Seems to have been as a result of the wheel not making good contact with the spacers as they are not hub centric.
I’ve just picked up the car but so far so good. If the problem persists I will get hub centric spacers or new wheels.
I have the adaptive suspension but they were modified as a result of the air suspension setup
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I’ve just picked up the car but so far so good. If the problem persists I will get hub centric spacers or new wheels.
I have the adaptive suspension but they were modified as a result of the air suspension setup
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Silly question: If QV rear brake calipers are the same as 2.0T front brake calipers, are the rotors also the same dimensions? The QV co-cast light weight iron rotors might be competitive with Ceika.
Any ceramic pads available for iron rotors? That is my preference and the main reason for my project. I will check. Thanks for the info.
update: Wow $191 for the Ti fronts/Quad rears. That's about the usual price for an axle. No ceramics per se. I was able to get the Lexus ISF set in ceramic - actual low dust - for about $50...BOTH axles! Yeah maybe I put $200 into it for labor but they are actual low dust pads and not just slightly less than filthy stock. I don't car about the "performance." I don't drive hard enough or on the track yet. But for spirited driving and low maintenance detailing, they have been great. And I like the softer modulation on the pad. Makes smooth stopping a whole lot easier. Powerstop Evolution Ceramics. No sensors but I don't plan on self machining my rotors. No codes either. Disarm and leave the key in the cup holder. Bag and zip tie your leads. It's nice to know we have another source. May be the go to shop if I'm too tired.
update: Wow $191 for the Ti fronts/Quad rears. That's about the usual price for an axle. No ceramics per se. I was able to get the Lexus ISF set in ceramic - actual low dust - for about $50...BOTH axles! Yeah maybe I put $200 into it for labor but they are actual low dust pads and not just slightly less than filthy stock. I don't car about the "performance." I don't drive hard enough or on the track yet. But for spirited driving and low maintenance detailing, they have been great. And I like the softer modulation on the pad. Makes smooth stopping a whole lot easier. Powerstop Evolution Ceramics. No sensors but I don't plan on self machining my rotors. No codes either. Disarm and leave the key in the cup holder. Bag and zip tie your leads. It's nice to know we have another source. May be the go to shop if I'm too tired.
Planning ing on following Lockem's lead with the Ceika rotors. Getting slotted only with dark red rotor hats (my calipers are red) and the black anti corrosion treatment. $1280 from what I can tell. Now available directly on the website. Any advice on if I should switch to drilled or add drilled to slotted? Basically a street vehicle that I have been learning to track 4-5 times per year. Sticking with OEM pads unless someone has a better suggestion.
Thanks
Thanks
I'm not taking my car to the track, so I ordered the Ceika drilled and slotted rotors; I figure those will be the lightest in weight. Order has shipped and is supposed to arrive by end of day Tuesday. Sticking with OEM pads at the moment.
I ordered replacement Brembo disks, with Delphi rear pads and Power Stop ceramic front pads. Hopefully installing next weekend, though I plan at some point to switch to the Tarox pads whenever the rears also become available.
Just received the Ceika rotors. They are quite nice. I put them on a digital shipping scale and got the following:
Fronts are 16.2125 lbs,
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Rears are 12.825 lbs.
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According to a Brembo spec sheet, the factory fronts weigh 20.285 lbs, so the Ceika fronts are 4.07 lbs lighter each. The factory rears are 16.204 lbs, so the Ceika rears are 3.38 lbs lighter each. This works out to a total reduction of unsprung rotating weight of 14.9 lbs for all four rotors combined; 8.14 lbs removed from the front wheels, and 6.76 lbs removed from the rear wheels. It's an overall static weight reduction of 37.27 lbs.
Combined with my lighter FastWheels FC04 wheels which are 6.4 lbs lighter than the factory wheels, I'm reducing the unsprung rotating weight of the front wheels by 21.014 lbs, and the rear wheels by 16.253 lbs. This will improve acceleration, braking and suspension response while cornering.
Can't wait to get the new rotors installed!
Fronts are 16.2125 lbs,
Rears are 12.825 lbs.
According to a Brembo spec sheet, the factory fronts weigh 20.285 lbs, so the Ceika fronts are 4.07 lbs lighter each. The factory rears are 16.204 lbs, so the Ceika rears are 3.38 lbs lighter each. This works out to a total reduction of unsprung rotating weight of 14.9 lbs for all four rotors combined; 8.14 lbs removed from the front wheels, and 6.76 lbs removed from the rear wheels. It's an overall static weight reduction of 37.27 lbs.
Combined with my lighter FastWheels FC04 wheels which are 6.4 lbs lighter than the factory wheels, I'm reducing the unsprung rotating weight of the front wheels by 21.014 lbs, and the rear wheels by 16.253 lbs. This will improve acceleration, braking and suspension response while cornering.
Can't wait to get the new rotors installed!
Since installing my Ceika rotors I noticed there is a clicking sound during low speed maneuvering usually at full lock. The sound is rotational and doesn’t seem to occur in a straight line.
Any ideas guys?
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Any ideas guys?
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