Sorry I reread your post a third time. Looks like you got the red CEL. I'm not sure if the manual is wrong, but it says one notch is 8.8 fl oz?

 

I suspect that sensor fail only happens if the wiring to/in the sensor fails such that it is open or short circuit. If the sensor is not working right (maybe a bladder inside is leaking?) it could report the wrong oil fill. I guess I will find out when I drain and measure how much oil is in the engine. Maybe I should hook up MES and see what it says first.

The engine could use oil without an external leak or oil in the coolant by leakage in the turbo, head gasket or rings. Maybe a stuck PCV valve could allow the intake to suck oil out of the crankcase.

 

If your 5 L gets you dead center on the meter, and 5 notches (I'm bad at counting) is 250 mL each, you still have at least 2 notches worth 500 mL, or 17.6 oz. You could add the 16 oz I suggest and still be confidently within spec, even without say 4400 mi of driving. (I thought I remember you change every 5k mi)?

It's what I would do since there's no sensor failure notice, but it's your car. Best of luck as I know your situation isn't ideal to be dealing with this.

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It's been a while. Everything okay?

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Things move slowly when your tools are on one side of the state and the car and dealer are on the other side.
If I counted correctly I drained 4.65 liters from the engine, indicating a sensor fault. I have a new sensor on order. However there is a non-trivial chance that I counted wrong, so I will be checking the PCV pipes and turbo pipe for oil. Also, I will do a visual check on the exhaust.

 

New sensor installed. So far I have a steady oil level reading presented over 40 miles or so. No evidence of smoke in the exhaust. I hope to put more miles on it this weekend. Just wondering if a PCV valve can get intermittently stuck open; maybe 9000 miles between oil changes is too much? No obvious oil in the primary PCV hose that connects to the turbo intake tube.

As with everything on this car, once the monkey-puzzle electrical connector retainer is figured out the rest is "easy". The service manual simply says to release the connector. The oil level sensor connector has a colored piece that snaps towards the cable to release. 20 minutes to figure that out, <5 minutes to swap the sensor.

I discovered that MES has a PCM oil change reset function, separate from the service interval reset. I am not 100% sure what it does, but I ran it any way. It indicates that it has something to do with re-calibrating the multi-air system.

No torque spec that I could find in the manual for the overkill size sensor bolts.

 

How does the oil look at 9k mi? My wife had an older N52 (or was it N51?) engine in a BMW E90 (3 series) that would ask for an oil change at almost 15k mi. When I drained the oil it looked like the viscosity had thickened. (That seemed too long, at least in my opinion).

Glad you're back and no oil loss. (I remember depending on how hard we drove the Giulia would use some oil between oil changes)....

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How does the oil look at 9k mi? My wife had an older N52 (or was it N51?) engine in a BMW E90 (3 series) that would ask for an oil change at almost 15k mi. When I drained the oil it looked like the viscosity had thickened. (That seemed too long, at least in my opinion).

Glad you're back and no oil loss. (I remember depending on how hard we drove the Giulia would use some oil between oil changes)....

The oil was black and thick-ish. Maybe folks who are changing oil at 6k miles are on to something. The 9600 mile number might be the "maximum" rather than the recommended oil change interval.

 

Parked Giulia in the cold overnight (13F reported by the nearest weather station). Jumped in the car and it started with the usual roughness for a cold start at altitude. Shoved it in gear and very rough running followed by limp mode + CEL.

MES says

ECM P0363-00 Ignition failures (generic)
BCM U1714-2F Engine controller communication fault
BCM U1713-2F Engine controller communication fault
EPS U1960-86 ECU communication fault

Plus the errors that I see regularly
CDCM U1706-86
RFHUB B1040-64
DASM C141C-86

It is possible that only the P0363-00 error was new, I am not sure.
Any thoughts on this? The engine was acting like it was running on 2 cylinders. Stop-start-stop-start was enough to get the engine to run normally.

 

I would ignore everything but the PO363.... and I honestly wouldn't spend a whole lot of time diagnosing that.
I think I would just clear everything and see if anything returns on the next few cold starts.

 

My first thought is weak/worn 12 V...

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2 year old AGM battery which the BCM reports as in good condition.

 

More trouble starting cold in sub-freezing temps. This time I just waited for the engine to warm up and smooth out before putting it in gear. I guess new plugs and accessory belt are going to have to happen. I also put the conditioner/maintainer on the battery, just to be sure.

On other news, after almost 2 years of planning I bought a used QV CF hood off a wreck, painted Bianco Trofeo requiring only minor touchup and had it wrapped and fitted onto my Q4.
IMO, Alfa Romeo management is insane to not offer this hood as a premium upgrade to 4 cylinder models. My immediate experience:

1) The hood is thinner, so it does not rub the writing harness on the right side of the engine compartment.
2) The hood looks fabulous. The curvature follows the lines of everything, most notably the fender lines. The aluminum hood is "sunken" in the middle and does not follow the lines of the fenders front to back.
3) I got 3-4MPG higher fuel economy than expected on my return trip from Imperial Works--an unexpected plus and the highest I have yet observed. Tailwinds happen, so more miles are needed to be certain.
4) Wind noise is reduced slightly. See note in item 3).
5) Engine noise is increased slightly.
6) The under hood stickers are not "right", so I do not think it will not pass smog :-(. How stupid is that?
7) It simply fit, including the connections for the windshield wiper washers, my original latches, hinge bolts and struts.
8) The hood is much more rigid than the Aluminum hood in spite of being lighter. I did not observe any of the back edge vibration that happens with the Al hood. Also, it does not "oil can" noticeably.
9) The vents apparently do not align with anything that would be damaged by water intrusion. I sure hope melting snow is not going to cause problems.
10) As a minor plus, the hood is supposed to be about 6 pounds lighter than the aluminum. I did not have a chance to verify the claim.
11) The shade of the paint is ever so slightly different. I suspect that this is caused by the 4 year old Xpel on the fenders, which is expected to have yellowed a little.

I am hoping that the hood will reduce the tendency for the front of my Q4 to lift in a cross wind. It will take some time to encounter a 50+MPH crosswind to verify. I have had a few scary events in the past.

And for the record, I have my first scratch that penetrated the Xpel wrap and damaged the paint underneath. At least it is a tiny scratch. Without the wrap I am certain that my paint would be a mess now.

Lastly, I strongly suspect that the primary cause of the large-ish difference in CD between 4 cylinder models and QV (hint, QV cd is higher) is the number of ventilation holes on the front of the car. It is well known that pushing air through stuff in a car creates more drag than smoothly deflecting air around a car. Some cars (something some models of Ferrari and Ford Focus have in common) have vanes in the vents in order to manage said drag. Ferrari to close off brake vents to increase top speed, Focus to close off the radiator to increase fuel economy.

 

Pictures, pardon my awful photography + sub par camera:

It seems to need a shim under the left side hinge. Does Alfa ever install such at the factory?

 

Looks good, so far. I wonder if someone will see the QV hood and be confused. Hope you get everything aligned soon. Radiator grille shutters are very common these days.

 

Thanks. Confusion with a QV is someone else's problem; no QV grill, fake fender vents, badges, diffuser, or quad exhaust. I do not have plans to do anything else that alters the exterior appearance. OTOH, I will probably have the skirts re-wrapped and touched up next year, together with replacing the vinyl black film with newly available CF black film. I wonder if Alfa uses shims or if there is some way to adjust the hinge height? The hinge mounting points are impossible to see without some dismantling, so it is not obvious. I may have to cut a shim myself. As is there is really inadequate clearance between the left rear edge of the hood and the left fender to allow for the forces induced by "spirited" driving.

I may pursue getting some Ti and/or Al fasteners, mostly for appearance sake, for under hood. One issue is that it is pretty much impossible to remove the nuts that hold the hood on without chewing up the paint on the nuts. Ti nuts seem like the best (if a bit pricy) solution. IMO, there is a risk that much less expensive Al or common Stainless Steel grades are not strong enough and that zinc plated will corrode.

The issue with radiator shutters is that they really need to be designed in to fit. I do not think there is enough room in Giulia to add one. Maybe one above the bumper and another below? Then one needs a controller, although maybe the thermostat valve control could be hijacked? That might create issues with turbo cool down after stopping the engine. At least one model of Ferrari has a shutter/vane in front of the brake vents, not the radiator. In that case the shutter closes when you exceed some speed (and are not braking?). I doubt that the Ferrari implementation helps top speed much, but every little bit helps when your sales are so strongly dependent on bragging rights.

 

It finally got dirty so I washed the car Sunday. Some observations:

It looks like water spotting of the baffles in the hood vents will become a problem. Any thoughts?
They appear to be removable for cleaning, but tedious to do so.

The back edge of the CF hood is different than the back edge of the Aluminum hood. In particular I can fully lift out the left side windshield wiper arm without hitting anything now.

The underside of the hood sure gets dirty, but being a solid surface it is fairly easy to clean.

The trunk bottom liner weighs a remarkably light 6.4 pounds and has 8 square feet of surface area. Super high $$$ carbon fiber sandwich board actually ends up adding weight ?! AR engineering seems to have done their job on that part.

 

Here is the latest update:

I finally installed the Ceika rotors that I bought 6 months ago. Here is a summary of my brake rotor history:

OEM rotors, never caused any problems but are heavy.
Worked with @MacGeek and Ceika to get light weight rotors for 4 cylinder Giulia. Installed and observe instant improvement in traction on rough surfaces.
After some wear, tear, and abuse noticed oxidation issues on the Ceika rotors.
Vibration while braking started after the rotors were looking pretty rough. Took Ceika rotors to shop and they proclaimed them to be too far gone to turn down.
Took OEM rotors to shop and had them turned/cleaned up. They commented that they really did not need to be turned.
Vibration while braking continued, started wondering if the vibration was caused by something else. Later learned that Alfa does not recommend turning down OEM rotors due to possible vibration issues.
Installed a new set of Ceika rotors and got buttery smooth braking again. Also observed that the wear sensor wire to both of my rear EBC Yellow brake pads was broken.
Only time will tell if the Ceika rotors hold up sans abusive driving (long curvy downhill, using brakes only for speed control--it sure is fun but really hard on the brakes).

Still thinking about a water cooling setup. It looks much more manageable to fabricate than a ram air vent.

I also noticed that while my original set of Ceika rotors had glossy black hats, the new set has a matte finish.

Lastly, I got a more proper scale (I previously used a bathroom scale) and measured some weights:

Front Ceika rotors are 4 pounds lighter each than OEM.
Rear Ceika rotors are 2.7 pounds lighter each than OEM.
My Tecnico wheels with Michelin 245 35R19 A/S 4 tires weigh 41.3 pounds, drastically less than the 46 pound measurement (Michelin A/S3+ tires) that I got with my bathroom scale and a bit lighter than seems reasonable. I need to check the calibration on this new scale.

 

I am new to this forum. I would like to purchase a used red or blue Giulia AWD which year will you recommend?

Thanks, Sam

 

I believe that MY2019 is overall the best year. Later MY has gen3 electronics, which includes a touch screen and semi-autonomous driving if you want such a thing. The gen3 electronics do have some nice features like gauges on the infotainment screen. However, those later MYs reportedly also come with de-tuned suspension Earlier MY has some bugs and recalls, most of which can be fixed via updates. Those made after about Feb 2018 have the so-called security gateway which you will need to bypass if you want to do anything like clear errors, reset the oil service interval, or implement race mod.

I think finding a car with no problems and with the configuration that you want will be more important than selecting a specific model year.

Beware, earlier MY often do not or cannot have Android Auto or Apple Car Play. Be sure to check when looking at cars to buy.

 

Milestone reached (edit: substitute better picture):

 

Maintenance work for the weekend:

Install new front Porterfield brake pads which I had purchased from @Alfissimo . These replace my EBC yellows. Braking is smoother now, plus:
1) I already replaced the EBC yellow rears with Porterfield when I discovered that the left inner (rear) pad had gotten "stuck" and wore rapidly. Metal-to-metal on the rotor->"emergency" brake swap.

2) Brake wear sensors on ALL 4 of the EBC yellow pads failed. The wire leading away from the pad material did not appear to connect to anything. The rear wires came loose almost immediately (see prior posts) and while the front wires stayed "attached" the wire simply fell off when I removed the pads.

While the EBC pads exhibited good wear characteristics and seemed to smooth the rotors as promised, I cannot really recommend them due to the problems noted above.

Also note that EBC pads come sans all brake HW such as backing plate, spring and retaining pins. The Porterfield brake pads came with backing plates and the rear pads included the springs. However the front pads still lacked the springs and the retaining pins that are included with the OEM brake pad set. The referenced springs help hold the pad in the correct position and press on the outer radius of the pad. The pins are a wear part, although I do not know the life expectancy; certainly much longer than the brake pad.

I also changed the engine oil, the transfer oil and the rear differential oil. I have oil to do the front differential as well, but it seems to be more of a PITA than the others. In particular the front diff oil fill appears to be accessed via the right front wheel well, plus any oil drips will go onto the front cross member and then onto the belly pan; all making a big mess. At least the belly pan can be removed, but a drain of the front diff looks like it is going to smear the cross member with oil.

The Mopar oil fill for the transfer is the most horrible smelling lubricant that I have ever encountered. It is also very expensive at about $45/quart.
The oil that I drained from the transfer looked good, but appeared to be rather low viscosity/worn out. The service manual says to replace it at 80,000 miles, so I went too long.

My rear LSD appears to have a leak, probably at the front seal. I wonder if seals are available. The oil was the usual black, presumably from wear on the clutches. I noticed a little water in the drain pan after this, but am not sure if that was in the oil or dripping from elsewhere (I washed the car and the garage floor before starting the oil change work).

Still to do:
Front diff fluid change.
Brake fluid flush.
Coolant flush.

I should get that improved coolant bleed screw from @Alfissimo before attempting the coolant flush.

 

I got the brake fluid flush done. It seems that I should get one of those big syringes for extracting fluids, as brake fluid (quite a bit) needs to be removed from the reservoir. I was a bit surprised that the service manual still calls for an assistant to pump the brake pedal, even with the use of a power bleeder. Also surprised that the power bleeder filled my reservoir to the top (where did the in the top of the reservoir air go?) and also that this flush requires 1 quart of fluid at a minimum.

Oh, and in spite of "made in Italy" and pretty much all of the parts coming from Europe, the bleeder nipple takes a 7/16 inch wrench! OK, maybe it is supposed to be 11mm, but having purchased standard metric tool sets I have no 11mm wrench or socket, do you?

Anyway, next up is to replace all of the 30A relays. Here I discovered that those push-pin plastic rivets that hold the front wheel well liner on are absolutely horrible to remove, particularly when they are recessed like in this case. Also, that my car has 11 of the relays, but that I had bought only 10 'cause some forum member had posted that 10 number. Anyway, better to count how many your car needs or just buy some extras. I had 6 relays in the hard to get at "rack" in the front and 5 relays in the easily accessed box in the trunk. I observed that the large/heavy connector to one of parking sensors was unclipped from its retention bracket. Not good for long term reliability.

 

Did I miss the reason you're replacing the 30A relays?

 

They are automatically suspect. Too many people having trouble with them causing mysterious faults to not simply swap them all out.
Since I swapped the first batch of them out I have not once had the miss-shift problem that has plagued my car for the last 50,000 mile (transmission controller communication error).
Maybe just coincidence, maybe not. Resolving intermittent faults is always tricky.

FWIW: the new (revised) Alfa relays cost $40 each, while Panasonic relays run a whopping $5 each. I sure hope those Panasonic relays hold up.

 

So, relays replaced, engine seems to be running cooler and more responsive and efficient. However, I stop for gas on the way home, go to reset the trip meter and....

The dreaded blank center instrument panel problem happens. MES shows NO ERRORS?! I am hoping that the "let it sit for a few hours and try again" method will work. My battery also does not seem to want to charge up past "74%", so maybe a new battery (mine is 3 years old) is in order? I guess I should try my battery conditioner first.

Anyway, east bound Friday night with temps in the mid 40s (F) (high 30s at the summit) I got up to 6 bars on the oil temperature gauge. I got power cutback at one point. Replace relays and return trip with temps in the low 50s and I never got more than 4 bars on the oil temperature gauge.

 

I have them in stock

 

Just an update on this long running thread detailing the story behind my car.
Last weekend I got a CEL due to insufficient turbo boost pressure. Details in this thread:

https://www.giuliaforums.com/threads/total-mes-failure.64115/#post-1083543

Over time I have complained repeatedly about how my fuel filler door does not open reliably. When the door is closed it recesses into the opening in the body work. All until a couple of months ago. Somehow, something changed in the fuel door latch (maybe because I tried the emergency cord?) and the door now sticks out slightly from the body work and opens reliably every time. Prior to this I observed that if I pushed fairly hard on the door it would make a loud click noise and then open reliably. Does anybody have any thoughts on this?

In the meantime my filler neck cap keeps taking more and more force to twist off. Maybe I need to put some silicone lube on the sliding surfaces? I don't want something bad to drip into the fuel tank.

 

@lockem do you have the OPF with Fiammenghi exhaust? How is it inside sound wise comparing to the factory one? Do you have any drone and is it cat back or axle back? Thanks!

 

No OPF in the USA. The exhaust is axle back. One person's excessive drone is another persons exhaust music. IMO, there was too much drone until I picked up on @Eagle7 s trick of removing the exhaust escutcheons and installing exhaust tips. Once I installed the tips the interior sound was just enough that I can hear what the engine is doing, but alternatively listen to the radio or have a conversation.

Exterior noise is maybe 6dB louder (crudely measured with my cell phone). Maybe too much in a very noise sensitive neighborhood but not enough to attract unwanted attention in the USA, even in California.

 

Update on my titanium Fiammenghi valved exhaust:

The pivots of the valve vane have seized. Solid, like welded in a fixed position. I removed the actuator and its mounting bracket and can fit an allen key in the slot that turns the valve, and it just will not budge.

I guess I need to find out the position it is in and cut it out if it is in the closed position. Perhaps an inexpensive snake cam can make the 18-24 inch run from exhaust tip to the valve?

 

Have you tried lubricating it? I’ve read about some nasty copper stuff that’s supposed to work on such things.