[Unique]

I’m thinking of buying a Stelvio but I’m concerned about the poor sound quality. I would like to upgrade the system also but is the signal of the head unit good enough to get a good final quality?

Giulia / Stelvio headunit can provide quite decent quality sound. It also supports lossless FLAC files on USB media to provide the best possible audio.

 

[MikeFish]

@Unique

Apologies for the long and perhaps boring post...
Following my service at Alfa last week I tried connecting straight to the ECM again. This time it sounded ok when I connected before making any adjustments other than I appeared to be picking up what sounded like white noise someowhere along my signal path. As previously it was almost at unlistenable volumes even as low at 10. First thing I did was turn my amps gains right down and this got rid of the noise (they were almost at peak as a cure for the ETM cutting out a high volume). After adjusting the gain on my DSP (marignal change) then the amps it does seem to sound better than before even before I did any EQ or tuning. Bear in mind I still have the OEM tweeters in as I am struggling to get the covers off.
For any other's out there, I checked the ETM output with a 1kHz 0dB sine wave on my scope and got a clean signal up to volume 28. On volume 29 it was clearly clipping. I tried various other frequency test tones (all at 0dB) and all were clean at volume 28. Previously when using the HK amplifier, even at full volume, there was no visible clipping so I suspect even at full volume the ETM or HK amp are not actually at their peaks (maybe due to having to split the signal up into so many channels, I don't know). The ETM output is noticably louder than the HK amp outputs too. Maybe this is a symptom of having to sum up all the channels with the HK amp.
As a work around for the rear channels (I don't really use them but may have on the lowest possible setting using the fader so the kids can hear something other than pure bass) I connected the rear output from the ETM direct to the rear speakers outputs of the HK amp. Works very well. Obviously not as loud as my amplified front outputs but does what I need it to do.
The sat nav volume was ridiculously loud compared to the music even with it on minimum but bizarrely when I corrected the gains it now works correctly. Not sure why but it corrected the issue.
Also, even though I changed byte 112 to 20 using MES and the volume control etc working correctly, if I disconnect plug B from the HK amp (the one with the canbus connection) my odometer starts flashing indicating an proxi misalignment. Not a problem for me as I have cut the wires I need but if someone with a HK amp is planning on doing this and buying the plugs as Unique did then they will need to find out what else needs changing with a proxi alignment.
I started carrying out a basic tune then my car went mental. I soon realised this was due to my battery going flat even though I had my car connected to my trickle charger. Perhaps it wasn't connected properly, or just couldn't keep up with all the works I was carrying out over the weekend and maybe Alfa had my ignition on playing music whilst in the workshop (which would normally be OK if i didn't have 3 big amps in the boot). All charged up now and all errors cleared so hopefully do a bit more tuning tonight or try and get those tweeters out again.

 

[arsuoni]

@Unique

Apologies for the long and perhaps boring post...
Following my service at Alfa last week I tried connecting straight to the ECM again. This time it sounded ok when I connected before making any adjustments other than I appeared to be picking up what sounded like white noise someowhere along my signal path. As previously it was almost at unlistenable volumes even as low at 10. First thing I did was turn my amps gains right down and this got rid of the noise (they were almost at peak as a cure for the ETM cutting out a high volume). After adjusting the gain on my DSP (marignal change) then the amps it does seem to sound better than before even before I did any EQ or tuning. Bear in mind I still have the OEM tweeters in as I am struggling to get the covers off.
For any other's out there, I checked the ETM output with a 1kHz 0dB sine wave on my scope and got a clean signal up to volume 28. On volume 29 it was clearly clipping. I tried various other frequency test tones (all at 0dB) and all were clean at volume 28. Previously when using the HK amplifier, even at full volume, there was no visible clipping so I suspect even at full volume the ETM or HK amp are not actually at their peaks (maybe due to having to split the signal up into so many channels, I don't know). The ETM output is noticably louder than the HK amp outputs too. Maybe this is a symptom of having to sum up all the channels with the HK amp.
As a work around for the rear channels (I don't really use them but may have on the lowest possible setting using the fader so the kids can hear something other than pure bass) I connected the rear output from the ETM direct to the rear speakers outputs of the HK amp. Works very well. Obviously not as loud as my amplified front outputs but does what I need it to do.
The sat nav volume was ridiculously loud compared to the music even with it on minimum but bizarrely when I corrected the gains it now works correctly. Not sure why but it corrected the issue.
Also, even though I changed byte 112 to 20 using MES and the volume control etc working correctly, if I disconnect plug B from the HK amp (the one with the canbus connection) my odometer starts flashing indicating an proxi misalignment. Not a problem for me as I have cut the wires I need but if someone with a HK amp is planning on doing this and buying the plugs as Unique did then they will need to find out what else needs changing with a proxi alignment.
I started carrying out a basic tune then my car went mental. I soon realised this was due to my battery going flat even though I had my car connected to my trickle charger. Perhaps it wasn't connected properly, or just couldn't keep up with all the works I was carrying out over the weekend and maybe Alfa had my ignition on playing music whilst in the workshop (which would normally be OK if i didn't have 3 big amps in the boot). All charged up now and all errors cleared so hopefully do a bit more tuning tonight or try and get those tweeters out again.

The ETM clipping level is great information, thanks! Did you test it with any speakers or load resistors attached, or just straight into the DSP? What's your DSP's input resistance?

 

[Unique]

Internal amplifier outputs has to have resistors. Without those ETM detects "OMG, I cannot detect speakers"-error and associated error messages are being shown in the dash. Some DSP's have internal resistors, which you can enable. Those should also work fine.

~ 20 ohm resistors are good; no point of having less than that. These work well:

AC-LGD 20 - AudioControl

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www.audiocontrol.com

 

[Unique]

Following my service at Alfa last week I tried connecting straight to the ECM again. This time it sounded ok when I connected before making any adjustments other than I appeared to be picking up what sounded like white noise someowhere along my signal path. As previously it was almost at unlistenable volumes even as low at 10. First thing I did was turn my amps gains right down and this got rid of the noise (they were almost at peak as a cure for the ETM cutting out a high volume). After adjusting the gain on my DSP (marignal change) then the amps it does seem to sound better than before even before I did any EQ or tuning.

I have still the JL Audio C7 midbass elements waiting for installation... When all this is finalized, I will take the car to the local JL Audio reseller for final adjustments.

Bear in mind I still have the OEM tweeters in as I am struggling to get the covers off.

I used couple of weeks to get the first tweeter out. I was so frustrated that I almost gave up the whole thing. But then it just popped out. Getting out the second tweeter took less than 1 minute. You just need to push the plastic tools to deep enough and to the right place. Please check carefully my other posts about the tweeter removal. I posted some pictures, which shows you the places of the hooks keeping it in place.

Tweeter removal instructions

Hi, I'm in process of changing the tweeters on my Giulia to JL Audio C7-100CT units. I have downloaded the tweeter removal instructions from the techconnect and have successfully removed the A-pilar trim, but I seem not to find the right technique to get the tweeter elements out of the dash...

www.giuliaforums.com

Also, even though I changed byte 112 to 20 using MES and the volume control etc working correctly, if I disconnect plug B from the HK amp (the one with the canbus connection) my odometer starts flashing indicating an proxi misalignment. Not a problem for me as I have cut the wires I need but if someone with a HK amp is planning on doing this and buying the plugs as Unique did then they will need to find out what else needs changing with a proxi alignment.

I also still have this problem. I though it might be related to correct resistors missing from amplifier outputs, but I now have them (see previous post) and I still have blinking odometer. I have some additional proxi alignment byte changes to test - I try to do it in few days.

 

[MikeFish]

The ETM clipping level is great information, thanks! Did you test it with any speakers or load resistors attached, or just straight into the DSP? What's your DSP's input resistance?

No, I tested it with nothing connected.
With my DSP connected to the HK outputs I needed load resisters to get rid of any fault lights. When I switched to the ETM output I still had the resisters in place and no faults lights so left them there.
FYI, connecting the rear channels to the ETM outputs cleared the fault lights for those channels.

 

[arsuoni]

Internal amplifier outputs has to have resistors. Without those ETM detects "OMG, I cannot detect speakers"-error and associated error messages are being shown in the dash. Some DSP's have internal resistors, which you can enable. Those should also work fine.

~ 20 ohm resistors are good; no point of having less than that. These work well:

View attachment 99651

AC-LGD 20 - AudioControl

Shares Facebook Twitter 5 Pinterest Google+

www.audiocontrol.com

Yes, I know the ETM requires load resistance to avoid warning lights. The higher the resistance the less load there will be on the amplifier, thus less likely to start clipping. This is why I asked what type of load there was when the distortion measurements were taken.

 

[Triumph23]

Fellas, any tips on some speaker upgrades for the standard 8 speaker audio system? My car is a 2019 QV with base stereo.I personally find the base sound much nicer and warmer than the HK audio I had previously in my earlier Giulia, I am listening to a lot of Hi Res music via Tidal these days. While this sounds good, I feel its missing that dynamic range. I don't yet wish to add a sub woofer or an external amp as the car is still in early warranty and I don't want to mess with it at least not yet. So I am hoping a simple speaker upgrade will sort out the sound for not a great deal of expense.

I have gathered the base speakers are 6.5" (165 mm) 4 ohm 20W RMS made by JVC/Kenwood . I will be just looking to replace the speakers with like for like or thereabouts.
I like to a lot of old school and 90s Rock, intrumental with some blues, world music etc. thrown in with the occasional rap and RnB, so a wide range of music. I want the sound to be Warm, well rounded and detailed without any harshness whatsoever and a solid tight bass line. Sort of like the sound that comes from my Yamaha amp paired with my Q Acoustic 3020i speakers.

Any suggestions for replacement speakers? I am not looking to spend more than $200-300 per pair of speakers, and I will need 2 pairs to do the fronts and back. I may very well leave the tweeters alone but if there is a possibility to change the tweeters with a crossover that is ok too. My main intent is the door 6.5" woofers.

I have seen some Focal, Alpine speakers in the price range. Given the factory speakers are 20W (RMS?) what would be a good enough match for the factory amp/ETM. Not sure what the oem ETM is rated at. Any suggestions gratefully received.

I have determined the 3 ear speaker adaptors for the Mito, Giulietta and Fiats will work along with the cable connector adaptors for those. So all I am left to decide on is what speakers.

Alpine:

6.5 inch (17 cm)

Speakers, 6.5 inch Speakers, 17 cm speakers Pioneer Car Speakers, Alpine Car Speakers, Kenwood , JVC, Focal, Mutant, Car Speakers

www.dynamicsounds.co.uk

Focal:

6.5 inch (17 cm)

Speakers, 6.5 inch Speakers, 17 cm speakers Pioneer Car Speakers, Alpine Car Speakers, Kenwood , JVC, Focal, Mutant, Car Speakers

www.dynamicsounds.co.uk

Any other brands I should consider?

 

[Drew]

I love my hk sound. I think people are crazy saying the base system sounds as good or better, but every ear is different. Anyways, last year I threw in Polk DB+ speakers into my wife's van along with a Kenwood head unit that produces 22 watts RMS per channel. The speakers are very efficient and do not require a lot of power to drive loudly. They hit low as well (35Hz) and don't need a subwoofer to sound good. I am very pleased with it, especially for the price. Focal are nice, but those Alpine and Focal you are looking at do not hit low at all, you will need a woofer for full sound.

 

[Triumph23]

@Drew I found the HKs too mid harsh and over powering. The sound was not "warm" but a bit fatiguing to my ears. Thanks for your tip on the Polks. I find the base speakers have very good bass for my needs to I would need replacements to be similar frequency range. Not sure what the stock ones range is.

 

[Drew]

@Drew I found the HKs too mid harsh and over powering. The sound was not "warm" but a bit fatiguing to my ears. Thanks for your tip on the Polks. I find the base speakers have very good bass for my needs to I would need replacements to be similar frequency range. Not sure what the stock ones range is.

Yea my hk isn't harsh at all. I even have my EQ at 0,0,0 surprisingly. Bass is tight and clean and mids aren't muddy and highs are crisp. I love it. When looking at speakers, depending on what is driving it, I look for efficiency and what they rate the frequency response. Focals are really good sounding speakers but they need a separate subwoofer to really fill out the sound and they need more power to drive louder. For my low end needs, I really want 40Hz or better if I am not installing a separate subwoofer.

 

[Triumph23]

Ok the speakers have arrived along with the adaptors. Not sure if they are correct adaptors until I open the door card.

I got a pair of Hertz Mille Pro 165.3 , 4 ohm components to begin with. I will add more slowly if required. These have a good range 40Hz to 20k plus and high sensitivity of 92dB. So should be fine with factory amp. Most importantly they are built fantastic with heavy solid castings. Oozes quality and have good reviews. Even better, they are Italian!

I will hopefully try to swap them this weekend.

 

[Drew]

Hertz is good stuff. Should be a nice upgrade.

 

[AlfaAndy]

Nice. Please post step by step instructions, and results. I still believe (hope) that replacing the sub driver in the rear shelf, with a bolt-in higher quality driver installed in the same place, can improve the sound as well. Just haven't found one yet.

 

[JeFizz]

Ok the speakers have arrived along with the adaptors. Not sure if they are correct adaptors until I open the door card.

I got a pair of Hertz Mille Pro 165.3 , 4 ohm components to begin with. I will add more slowly if required. These have a good range 40Hz to 20k plus and high sensitivity of 92dB. So should be fine with factory amp. Most importantly they are built fantastic with heavy solid castings. Oozes quality and have good reviews. Even better, they are Italian!

I will hopefully try to swap them this weekend.

View attachment 104348 View attachment 104349

Those do look very nice! That's a very sturdy looking cast basket. Are you planning on adding any sound damping material? I would highly recommend doing that along with securing some of the wiring and the back of the switch panels with some felt tape. You're in there, may as well only go in there once.

 

[Triumph23]

Those do look very nice! That's a very sturdy looking cast basket. Are you planning on adding any sound damping material? I would highly recommend doing that along with securing some of the wiring and the back of the switch panels with some felt tape. You're in there, may as well only go in there once.

Yes certainly. I really wanted to remove the inner door panel as well to apply some Noico 80mils Sound insulation but the inner card appears to be a pain to get off and a bit too involved, having to remove the whole window glass and the door handle as well. What I am planing to do is apply some sound insulation across 30% of the surface in the areas that are accessible via the speaker hole and on the door card itself as well as apply some foam/tape under anything that is rattling or could rattle. I will post back on how it goes. I have some 6.5" foam surrounds and a pad for the front and back of the speakers too with a sticky backing.

 

[Triumph23]

Ok so, I had a couple of hours yesterday and took my time to start with the passenger side front door speaker exchange. I took my time, used the official door card removal instructions and some plastic trim tools. I had purchased the speaker adaptors and cable adaptor which I had to modify slightly with wider speaker terminal spades as the ones that came with the harness adaptor were too narrow. I cut a small slot on the side of the speaker mounting adaptor to put the wires though.

While in there, I applied a few strips of Noico 80mil insulation to the door panel through the speaker mounting hole without removing the inner door card.

Once you know where the outer door card clips are, they do come off relatively easily. I started from the outer top one using a nylon trim tool and once a couple popped off, I just used my fingers to wedge in the gap and pull the card along as I went and all of them came off easily. The first one is a bit hard to get off and it does make a loud cracking popping noise and it feels like something broke but it was fine. A couple of clips, the blue inserts on the door did break but I had some spares. Don't be scared, worst is you break a couple of clips. Just buy some spares before you start from your local dealer or online. These are common to most older Alfas in Europe and some Fiats, Jeep.

Steps:
1. Remove the plastic cover inside door handle and remove allen head screw.
2. Remove same type screw under door arm rest and inside the window switch which needs to be removed first.
3. Remove cover on side of door and remove screw.
4. Remove reflector and remove screw.
5. Start with outer top edge referring to instructions available on this forum, pull the door panel using a nylon trim tool.
6. Do the same along the edge and use fingers to yank hard at the panel.
7. Lift up the top edge and remove door card carefully. Support it at the bottom on a small stool or similar.
8. Disconnect connector inside.
9. Unclip and remove the cable for door handle pull lever. The door card will now be free. I used a pair of nose pliers to squeeze the tabs and push/pull through the hole. It's obvious when you are there but a bit tricky to do.

Rest is obvious and reverse of removal. I applied some foam around the new speakers. Applied some padding and tape around anything that appeared to rattle but there was very little of concern. I think the main rattles are from the actual door clips themselves and the window switch push clips. I could not do much to these except ensure they are tight. There may be some things you could do on the other side of the inner door panel but that would mean removing the outer door handle, window glass etc. which I did not fancy. I have put a few strips of Noico insulation via the speaker hole and a few other places on the back of the outer door card so hopefully this should make a difference.

The main tips for refitting:
1. Check all door clips are ok and replace any broken ones.
2. The top window glass strip sometimes can unsnap at the outer edge (opposite end of the door hinge) from the door card attachment guide which is not obvious until you try and hang the door card back in the window slot and see the panel has larger gap. You need to check that it is pulled back and reseated correctly on the guide in the door card first before hanging the door card back in the window.
3. Now use a torch to look via the gap and align each clip to the mating hole in the door all along the edges, there are 8 clips in total. Do not push the card back in place until it is correctly aligned. Otherwise you risk breaking one or more of the male white part of the clips.
4. Most importantly, do not forget to feed the window switch cable connector back through the hole like I did and had to take the door card off again!! BEFORE clipping the panel back in place.

Sound: I don't know yet as it was late when I finished, have only done one side and the speakers need running in for a few hours. The short listen suggests the left speaker which is Hertz is same sort of loudness as the stock speaker on the right. I will try and fit the right front today and the let the speakers run in for a few days before posting the perceived sound quality.

It should only take me an hour or a bit more on this side now that I know what to do.

 

[Triumph23]

More install pictures

 

[stocki]

How "sturdy" are the door card clips? Can you disassemble and reassemble it multiple times without destroying any of them?
I can hear a rattle sometimes and want to look into it - but I'm afraid I might introduce even more issues.

 

[Triumph23]

How "sturdy" are the door card clips? Can you disassemble and reassemble it multiple times without destroying any of them?
I can hear a rattle sometimes and want to look into it - but I'm afraid I might introduce even more issues.

They are fairly sturdy and although they sound like they are going to break, they don't, well most of them anyway. I had a couple break on one door and none on the other purely because I did not pull the door panel at the right position close to where the clips are. It is always the blue part of the door insert that break or come away, if not broken they can be reused. Replacement clips are cheap though, I got these.

Front & Rear Door Card Clips, Alfa Romeo 6000626334

These distinctive blue and white trim clips are used on some of the latest Alfa Romeo models. They are fitted to the Stelvio and Giulia and are used to secure the front and rear door cards. Each clip includes an integrated rubber washer and has a sprung head which reduces cabin noise and...

www.vehicleclips.co.uk