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Can you tell me what is so funny? I came to this forum for help.


What’s funny is your planned strategy. You sound like a terrible candidate for leasing. I have a hard time believing your numbers. First, I don’t think Chrysler Capital nor Ally offer a lease with 35k mile per year allowance. It normally costs .20 -.50 / mile over the allowance. So assuming the allowance is actually 15k miles per year, you’re talking 40k overage, which is $8k - $20k in overage fees alone depending on who is actually bankrolling the deal. Also, your idea of paying for the entire lease up front is tragic and laughable at the same time. Rule #1 of leasing is don’t pay cap cost reduction unless there is a very good reason to do so. And never pay for the whole thing up front. That’s just putting crazy money at unnecessary risk.

My suggestion is you help yourself by spending a few hours over at Leasehackr learning the basics before you even consider going back to an Alfa dealer to make a deal.
So is what I intend on doing unheard of? It was the dealer’s idea. I seriously never considered a lease an option. He printed out the number for a 35k per year and 45k per year two-year lease. I will post in an hour when I’m home.
 
Can you tell me what is so funny? I came to this forum for help.


What’s funny is your planned strategy. You sound like a terrible candidate for leasing. I have a hard time believing your numbers. First, I don’t think Chrysler Capital nor Ally offer a lease with 35k mile per year allowance. It normally costs .20 -.50 / mile over the allowance. So assuming the allowance is actually 15k miles per year, you’re talking 40k overage, which is $8k - $20k in overage fees alone depending on who is actually bankrolling the deal. Also, your idea of paying for the entire lease up front is tragic and laughable at the same time. Rule #1 of leasing is don’t pay cap cost reduction unless there is a very good reason to do so. And never pay for the whole thing up front. That’s just putting crazy money at unnecessary risk.

My suggestion is you help yourself by spending a few hours over at Leasehackr learning the basics before you even consider going back to an Alfa dealer to make a deal.
So is what I intend on doing unheard of? It was the dealer’s idea. I seriously never considered a lease an option. He printed out the number for a 35k per year and 45k per year two-year lease. I will post in an hour when I’m home.
MSRP $53,335
Price $46,335
Taxes $1,565
Residual .58
Adjusted Residual $24,933
Total Initial Payment $24,022
Allows 35,000 miles/year
Monthly payment would be $986

Honestly not sure how those numbers add up. If my price is $46,335 + $1,565 = $47,900, and my total initial payment is $24,022, then shouldn’t my adjusted residual be $47,900 - $24,022 = $23,878. Instead, it is $24,933, which is roughly $1,000 higher than I had anticipated. Anyone know why?
 
Honestly not sure how those numbers add up. Anyone know why?
Because your dealer is jerking you around and they're not telling you the whole story. They love to give potential buyers some of the numbers but not all of the numbers to make an informed decision. The $1,055 difference could easily be lease acquisition fee, state registration fee and dealer documentation fees and who knows what else.

To determine what the actual lease deal is you need some more information, some of which needs to come from the dealer or the leasing company (who is this proposed lease agreement with by the way?) and some of it you're going to have to research on your own because the dealer isn't interested in helping you understand all the details. See the Leasehackr calculator and fill in the missing blanks. You also need to understand how the state handles taxes for lease vehicles, what amount of that discount is taxed vs. untaxed incentives, whether any post-sale rebates apply, etc.

https://leasehackr.com/calculator/
 
Honestly not sure how those numbers add up. Anyone know why?
Because your dealer is jerking you around and they're not telling you the whole story. They love to give potential buyers some of the numbers but not all of the numbers to make an informed decision. The $1,055 difference could easily be lease acquisition fee, state registration fee and dealer documentation fees and who knows what else.

To determine what the actual lease deal is you need some more information, some of which needs to come from the dealer or the leasing company (who is this proposed lease agreement with by the way?) and some of it you're going to have to research on your own because the dealer isn't interested in helping you understand all the details. See the Leasehackr calculator and fill in the missing blanks. You also need to understand how the state handles taxes for lease vehicles, what amount of that discount is taxed vs. untaxed incentives, whether any post-sale rebates apply, etc.

https://leasehackr.com/calculator/
It is an Alfa/Maserati dealership. Even he thought the residual was artificially high, but then said “that’s the banks problem.” Leasehackr only lets you calculate for 15,000 mile leases. My options were either 35k or 45k. I did fill that out though. My doc I received at the dealership also states: $595 acquisition fee, $250 doc fee, and $85 govt fee. Could be it.
 
Also, borrowing money is still historically cheap. You'd be a fool to spend $24k up front ever. But you'd be especially foolish to put any money down now. In fact, MFs are generally so low right now it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to buy down the rate via cap cost reduction. Chrysler Capital and Ally don't offer Multiple Security Deposits (MSDs) so all that money would be at risk as soon as you signed on the dotted line. Your car could get stolen the same day and you'd be out of a car and $24k.

Also, you'll end up paying a lot more for your car if you lease and then end up buying it out at the end as you will essentially have to pay sales tax twice. Not only that, but the way your payments are structured and the interest rates you will pay will end up costing you a lot more. I know you think leasing comes with an easy-out clause in case the car is a disaster you can just return it and be done with it at the end of the lease term. But there is a real cost to that flexibility. Leasing is a tool. It works great for some buyers but doesn't make good financial sense for others. Based on your estimated mileage accumulation alone you are a terrible candidate for leasing even if you could exploit every tax advantage and loophole and benefit.
 
It is an Alfa/Maserati dealership. Even he thought the residual was artificially high, but then said “that’s the banks problem.” Leasehackr only lets you calculate for 15,000 mile leases.
You can always double check the math by hand.

https://leasehackr.com/blog/2016/4/17/how-to-calculate-lease-payments-by-hand

Also, dealers are notorious for bait and switch tactics. Until you have the actual lease agreement in front of you spelling out all the terms, all those numbers written on scraps of paper is just cheap talk. I know both Chrysler Capital and Ally are both 3rd party leasing companies (as opposed to captive finance companies like BMW Financial Services NA, LLC) but even so their operations are pretty standard. I'd be interested to know which leasing company the dealer is working with to get you a 35k or 45k mile lease deal. You could just be setting yourself up to be eaten by a shark.
 
Also, borrowing money is still historically cheap. You'd be a fool to spend $24k up front ever. But you'd be especially foolish to put any money down now. In fact, MFs are generally so low right now it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to buy down the rate via cap cost reduction. Chrysler Capital and Ally don't offer Multiple Security Deposits (MSDs) so all that money would be at risk as soon as you signed on the dotted line. Your car could get stolen the same day and you'd be out of a car and $24k.

Also, you'll end up paying a lot more for your car if you lease and then end up buying it out at the end as you will essentially have to pay sales tax twice. Not only that, but the way your payments are structured and the interest rates you will pay will end up costing you a lot more. I know you think leasing comes with an easy-out clause in case the car is a disaster you can just return it and be done with it at the end of the lease term. But there is a real cost to that flexibility. Leasing is a tool. It works great for some buyers but doesn't make good financial sense for others. Based on your estimated mileage accumulation alone you are a terrible candidate for leasing even if you could exploit every tax advantage and loophole and benefit.
So let’s say I don’t pay upfront. I’m trading a Civic in for $9,000. Doesn’t that money have to go towards the lease? I bought the Civic cash 3 years ago. 25k miles. Barely use it since I have two cars.
 
So let’s say I don’t pay upfront. I’m trading a Civic in for $9,000. Doesn’t that money have to go towards the lease? I bought the Civic cash 3 years ago. 25k miles. Barely use it since I have two cars.
Trading in a used car and applying the trade-in value towards cap cost reduction for a lease is again a terrible idea. You're much better off separating the trade-in from the lease deal. Sell the car to Carmax and take the cash and do whatever you want with it. You can make lease payments with it at your convenience because the money is in your account. Again, don't do cap cost reduction on a lease as all that money is at risk.
 
Exactly. Also, negotiate the price up-front, THEN introduce the idea of a trade-in. And bring the Carmax sheet - tell them that is the target. THEN say "oh, but maybe I want to lease" and try to get the purchase price even lower. That's how I got my fully loaded Q4 Ti Sport AWD for 40K (an 11K discount!). I did lease, and I did do a 5K cap cost reduction - but that was to please my wife, who wanted the payments to be <400. Remember, you don't save any money by paying a lease in advance. That's why people don't really do it.



For comparison purchase, my residual is 0.62 and my monthly is 323. That's for a 10K lease. I pay 0.2 per mile of 10k/year. So! Let's say I do an extra 25K miles per year (!!!). That costs me 5000/year, or 600/month. Thus, my payment goes to an equivalent of 923/month. But if I decide to buy the car in the end after all that, then those miles don't case me anything extra, and all that money can be repurposed towards buying. In your case, you're paying all that money in advance. If the car turns out to be a total dog, then you're stuck. And if it's a dog and spending time in the shop, how are you going to hit that giant mileage total? So basically, your lease is setting you up in a lose-lose situation. In my case, my lease is so cheap (12000 total cost of ownership, all in, for 2 years) that it really is like a trial period.



Trading in a used car and applying the trade-in value towards cap cost reduction for a lease is again a terrible idea. You're much better off separating the trade-in from the lease deal. Sell the car to Carmax and take the cash and do whatever you want with it. You can make lease payments with it at your convenience because the money is in your account. Again, don't do cap cost reduction on a lease as all that money is at risk.
 
The way I saw it, as someone who has always bought outright, if I intend on purchasing at the end of the lease, it’s not like I’m paying more total leasing first. My intention is to own and only turn in if it sucks.
What does "if it sucks" mean? If the car has major issues and you're in a lemon law state, they have to buy it back anyway.

I'm also pretty sure that your mileage increase is a pre-paid overage, not an effective decrease in residual. So even though you said you're paying a small finance charge, you're likely paying $0.20/mile for all your miles over 15k/yr. That's money that's thrown away.

There's an overwhelming response here to you that you should just buy the car if you're going to drive it that much. People are correct that leasing essentially never makes sense in these cases.
 
Hello all! As someone who has owned late 70's Spider in the 90's, Im interested in getting back into an Alfe leasing a 2018 Ti Sport. Sticker is $47,190.00 and Im in the Pacific NW. Anyhow, I've never leased before, but my CPA is telling me I should do so for tax purposes (I am a small business owner). I've read some of the more recent pages, but am curious what I should expect. I have excellent personal credit, but again, the lessee would be my business. Im thinking 3 years with 15k miles per year as Ive averaged 13,200 per year over the last 2.5 years in my current personally owned car. Im not sure where to start asking questions, but what type of money factor should i expect? I understand from previous posts that it is best to not pay anything up front to buy down the cap cost.

Any advice and insight into leasing a Giulia is greatly appreciated!

Edit: I am reading quite a bit on Leasehackr. Great info over there.
 
Im thinking 3 years with 15k miles per year as Ive averaged 13,200 per year over the last 2.5 years in my current personally owned car.
You might want to look at 2 year lease as it might be a better option for you. Also, you’re almost always better off going for the slightly lower mileage allowance and paying for whatever mileage overage you accumulate. In most cases that is preferable to not using all the mileage allowance as that’s just throwing money away.
 
You might want to look at 2 year lease as it might be a better option for you. Also, you’re almost always better off going for the slightly lower mileage allowance and paying for whatever mileage overage you accumulate. In most cases that is preferable to not using all the mileage allowance as that’s just throwing money away.
Ill check 2 years for sure. As for mileage, I assume that is just a simple calculation of what my potential overage might be with a 24k mileage limit vs what the actual cost would be with a 30k limit?

Also, I am spending a lot of time on Leasehackr. For a car like this, what is considered a good Leasehackr score? And would I know I have a decent deal with the payment is at or just below 1% of the MSRP? Part of me wants to tell them the monthly payment I want with zero drive off, the term I want, the miles I want and let them figure out how to put it together. I would give myself some wiggle room on the payment. For instance, tell them I want $430/mo for 15k miles over 36 months (just an example) knowing I would go up to a $475 payment which puts me right at 1%. Does that make sense or am I making a mistake thinking that way?
 
Ill check 2 years for sure. As for mileage, I assume that is just a simple calculation of what my potential overage might be with a 24k mileage limit vs what the actual cost would be with a 30k limit?

Also, I am spending a lot of time on Leasehackr. For a car like this, what is considered a good Leasehackr score? And would I know I have a decent deal with the payment is at or just below 1% of the MSRP? Part of me wants to tell them the monthly payment I want with zero drive off, the term I want, the miles I want and let them figure out how to put it together. I would give myself some wiggle room on the payment. For instance, tell them I want $430/mo for 15k miles over 36 months (just an example) knowing I would go up to a $475 payment which puts me right at 1%. Does that make sense or am I making a mistake thinking that way?
I got a $50k MSRP Giulai Ti Lusso for $1375 due at signing (including fees, etc), and $408/mo + tax, in Socal, in April. That works out pretty close to a 1% lease / 10 year leasehackr score. The best leasing was with Ally for 24 months at that time and I think that's still the case, but it's a couple of % worse on residual than it was in April. You should be able to get pretty close to what you're after, maybe slightly more.
 
Ill check 2 years for sure. As for mileage, I assume that is just a simple calculation of what my potential overage might be with a 24k mileage limit vs what the actual cost would be with a 30k limit?

Also, I am spending a lot of time on Leasehackr. For a car like this, what is considered a good Leasehackr score? And would I know I have a decent deal with the payment is at or just below 1% of the MSRP? Part of me wants to tell them the monthly payment I want with zero drive off, the term I want, the miles I want and let them figure out how to put it together. I would give myself some wiggle room on the payment. For instance, tell them I want $430/mo for 15k miles over 36 months (just an example) knowing I would go up to a $475 payment which puts me right at 1%. Does that make sense or am I making a mistake thinking that way?
I got a $50k MSRP Giulai Ti Lusso for $1375 due at signing (including fees, etc), and $408/mo + tax, in Socal, in April. That works out pretty close to a 1% lease / 10 year leasehackr score. The best leasing was with Ally for 24 months at that time and I think that's still the case, but it's a couple of % worse on residual than it was in April. You should be able to get pretty close to what you're after, maybe slightly more.
Thanks for the info! Was it a San Diego based dealer? I’m just outside of Portland, OR on the WA side of the river and don’t mind going down to LA for the right car. Just one long day drive back for me. Problem is I think CA charges out of state purchasers CA sales tax unless you take delivery outside of CA. And then I would have to pay WA use tax out of pocket.
 
I don't have the details in front of me right now but will post later but I had my local dealer run the numbers for a lease and he came back with $640/mo for 39 months 10k miles per year for MSRP ~$53-54,000 Ti Lusso.

Seems a bit on the high side to me.
 
I don't have the details in front of me right now but will post later but I had my local dealer run the numbers for a lease and he came back with $640/mo for 39 months 10k miles per year for MSRP ~$53-54,000 Ti Lusso.

Seems a bit on the high side to me.
That does seem high. Others have gotten better deals.
 
Ended up leasing. MSRP was $53,335. My price was $46,494 before taxes. 35,000/yr two-year lease with each mile after 15,000 costing me 15 cents (pre-paid vs 20 cents penalty). Also, I get my 15 cents back for every mile I do not use. $2,500 down with a 774 credit score ($1,000 extra because I have never had a big loan in my name or mortgage on my house). $860 a month. Definitely plan on purchasing upon lease end. Only using the lease as protection against defects I cannot live with. Got $1,000 off for leasing instead of buying, plus my residual value is the actual price I pay (no penalties or fees). I know my payments are high, but only $3.75 of it goes towards interest every month. Financing cost was over $1,000. I saw this as a cheaper method of purchasing the vehicle with the protection of a lease.
 
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