That’s the issue. Not a whole lot of demand for it.

Then there is also the complexity of this car how everything is set up. I mean the intake temps can be easily fixed by adding a FMIC on top of the built in one but it makes think more complex.
Downpipe can be made so can be a mounting solution for the wastegate. Who’s going to go through all this trouble then to find that fuel is an issue. It just doesn’t add up from a demand point of view.

Till there is a way to get full ECU control isn’t really worth trying.

 

Sunoco 94, the purple stuff eh @Go_a_way1?

Just ethanol friend, then meth injection if unsatisfied with power you would get maxing out oem fuel system w ethanol. Its just simpler to use oem fueling and run different fuel rather then add water/meth inj which is a whole new system with potential for failure and lack of integration/communication with ecu.

Wishful thinking.. this is.

 

Petro Canada is where I find the 94 haha. I agree using better fuel would be simple enough if more people had access to it. If that was the case then maybe someone would make a conversation kit

 

@Go_a_way1 conversion kit? For ethanol?

I am pretty certain that lines and injectors can handle it. The issue is tuning and availability of e85. Bringing up the wrx again, nothing was changed but in tank lpfp which delivers more fuel (to prevent hpfp starvation and lean condition). 22k miles later and not one isse, nothing but e51 for two years. 😉

 

Yeah. Wouldn't you want to add a sensor to the fuel system and tie it into the ECU so you could tune for the exact ethonal content (or lack there of so you can run normal gas too)? It was popular on on of my previous cars for people to do that. I agree the rest of fuel system is probably fine for E85

 

Flex fuel kit. Yes i built my own but its pretty irrelevant if:

1. E85 content doesnt change
2. Always use one fuel

Id be perfectly satisfied with singe fuel e51 tune for the Alfa since my ethanol is always 51%. There is nooo way someone would make Alfa flex capable, i just dont see it so dont get hopes up.

Car is capable of trimming (up to a point of course) fuel and “adapt” to the fuel in the tank as far as fuel/air mixture goes. Timing would be more critical to keep in line with fuel type changes and flex sensor/kit allows for real time adjusting in response to fuel change.

 

@bhvrdr but in audi and vw world jb4 can add timing too no?

 

The jb4 cant really add timing. Timing targets are programmed into the calibrations and i know you know the piggyback doesnt change and ecu tables directly but rather their outputs by intercepting their sensors.

So for fuel they can intercept the fuel rail sensor and bias it creating more fuel and allowing for a bunch more headroom in trims.

For boost, they can obviously intercept map and if needed the electronic wastegate to gain more control (something ive emailed terry about testing for us now)..

but for timing there really are no sensors to directly manipulate so instead all you get is very passive manipulation of timing through the manipulation of boost. The more you attenuate the boost signal, the less boost the ecu thinks the car is making and some ecus are therefore calibrated to request more timing. It works ok on some ecus that have very complex timing tables that can take advantage of lower boost, higher octane, etc to make power...

The problem with the alfa is that this doesnt seem to happen. Stock tune shows no timing advance even when boost is attenuated.

This is a bummer if you want to benefit from e85 on the stock turbo because, lets say, boost is pretty maxed on stock turbo. So you want to go heavy on timing. Now you need a flash tuner wiling to calibrate an e40 file for you.

Its not much of an issue though using the jb4 on a hybrid turbo because youre going to be adding a significant amount more boost up top and chances are very slim youll be looking to or able add more timing on top of that.

 

The JB4 is a great tuning tool and can certainly do more for the Giulia technically as the market grows. But right now it's a small market and most customers are looking for tune only performance in a format they can quickly install/remove, or those who are running E85 are happy to limit themselves to 30% within the JB4's current range of control for the platform.

As there are more cars out there hoepfully the market will continue to expand and we'll get to the point that larger turbos and more direct fuel and timing control make sense to develop.

 

If I have 100% sure that jb4 can handle hybrid turbo I will order it in 5 minutes [emoji846]

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Timing still intrigues me... Hypothetically, what happens if the timing reported is being referenced off of multiair valve timing instead of crankshaft position? It would be odd to say the least...

 

With regards to a custom turbo setup...

that really needs a dyno tune rather than something done over the net. EC, Fabspeed, or whoever else has access to the Dimsport Tuning suite can do it. Perhaps after a couple customers they could offer a package so it's more of an off the shelf option.

 

With regards to a custom turbo setup...

that really needs a dyno tune rather than something done over the net. EC, Fabspeed, or whoever else has access to the Dimsport Tuning suite can do it. Perhaps after a couple customers they could offer a package so it's more of an off the shelf option.

sadly some of those tuners need an Alfa tech with witech on hand to put car into dyno mode. This platform really sucks for aftermarket and I was always under the opinion that Alfa should have its own in house tuning division like BMW... Would absolutely help sales and volume. Anyone cross shopping an M-2 would have some incentive to buy a Ti knowing extra 5-6k and you could have 325-350 whp and awd. But most likely never happen.
For now it’s basics of racing. Most money wins.

 

JB4 also works great for aftermarket BMW turbos. Like Terry said, they would need to see a larger demand to make it worth it for them to implement.

 

And lambda of 1 isnt intriguing enough for you @Alpha?Also what is it that the operator can do/log on a dyno that they couldnt do while e-tuning on a dyno or street?

I was reading through emotion website FAQ and it seems like the tool can log (if turned on by them) and they also offer custom maps for 50£ a pop, if requested. Anyone else noticed that? It may not pertain to Alfas specifically, yet to be confirmed but it pertains to the emotion+ OBD flasher tool they use so hopefully its an option on the Alfa as well. Guess we will find out soon enough but i was really excited to read that they do custom mapping upon request.

 

And lambda of 1 isnt intriguing enough for you @Alpha?Also what is it that the operator can do/log on a dyno that they couldnt do while e-tuning on a dyno or street?

I only see lambda close to 1 cruising or in low boost "A" mode.

A dyno tune can be done more. efficiently. Loads can be varied, conditions controlled, and updates to the map can be made on the spot. Can you street tune effectively - yes... But it takes a great deal of time and trial/error. Most tuners are not going to want to work with you a half dozen or more times on a tune only good for your car unless you are giving them gobs of money. If you are forced to pay by the update it could get pricey quickly.

 

@Alfa Philly i am confident this car is capable of 350whp with just an e30 tune and nothing else. I mean if hondas and subarus and mazdas can do it why not Alfas 2L DIT engine?

 

absolutely agree.

 

The multi air intake side control of things is what makes it a bit harder from what I have gleaned in the past. No traditional intake cams, intake valves are only controlled by the electro hydraulic Multiair actuators commanded by the ECU.

@Alfa Philly MES can put car into dyno mode.

 

MES can put a QV in dyno mode? I know even in dyno mode somehow car knows it’s not moving and will shut down. I’m guessing the radar tells it? Even with fans and AWD dyno car somehow knows it’s not moving.

 

I dont know @Alpha i tend to disagree and i think that aside from convenience and safety dyno has nothing to offer me. Why would i want to tune my car on a tool that’s used to replicate real life street driving?

No thanks. Id rather tun my car on the street in real life circumstances and conditions. A skilled tuner will need as many revisions as he would on the dyno. Theres no tricks or shortcuts w dyno tuning v e tuning, same parameters same calibration just one done in person and another via internet.

One would have to pay me to dyno tune unless the tuner was open to doing revisions on the street after the dyno tune, as necessary. I drive my car on the streets in real life conditions which a dynamometer at ITS BEST calibrated state can replicate. What if it isnt calibrated? When was it last calibrated? How much is it off (-/+) with respect to real life conditions it is trying to replicate? 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Front wheels arent rolling on dyno thats how it knows.

 

All four of my wheels moved when we dyno QV

 

Isnt it rwd?

and i see lambda of .96 at wot. Thats 14:1.

 

yes it’s rwd

 

My afr's are about 12 with the JB4 (same as stock basically) ... Running that much boost and 14's is just asking for trouble. Shit tune.

 

There’s accelerometers in the car, as well as tilt and yaw sensors... that’s how it knows it’s not moving.
It’s too smart [emoji16]

 

There’s accelerometers in the car, as well as tilt and yaw sensors... that’s how it knows it’s not moving.
It’s too smart

Exactly this. Dyno mode disables all these sensors in addition to TC, ESC. @Alfa Philly , the dyno mode is basically under the ABS module which is the same on all Giulias so I don't see why it won't work in a QV. The radar only activates Forward Collision Warning, so this has to be turned off in the infotainment under safety settings before testing on the dyno. All 4 wheels rotate on a 4WD linked Dyno. Mine did. The front and rear rollers are either mechanically or hydraulically linked. The dyno operator would set it up based on FWD or RWD or AWD.

For example:

Our Dyno Facilities

Pioneers in ECU Remapping, Diesel Tuning, Economy Tuning, Engine Tuning and Chip Tuning. Worldwide dealer network with the best performance gains in the industry.

www.celtictuning.co.uk

 

Yes this

Or you just disable the nannies which is what bms does via can bus.

Mike

 

Be nice if other folks with mes could post their lambdas to see if its a bad logging channel or a bad actual issue

 

Are you guys going off the logs I posted?. I would not take the ones I posted with connecting to QV module. But yes if others could post their MES logs if would be good.

 

Yes i will post as soon as i get the cables and obd connectors. I plan on logging for a while before i flash a tune so that i have a solid baseline to compare the tune to. Also want to see how car behaves in extreme hot climate, Arizona summer.

 

Just looking at Celtics dyno report. The interesting thing is they have pushed the max output to 6000rpm vs stock at 5350, where it then drops off a cliff. Is that just extra boost all the way up to 6000 rpm or are they gaining the power some other way?

Also, from experience, when driving hard I wouldn't say the car in stock form feels like the power and torque is falling off a cliff like that at 5350rpm. Mine pulls hard all the way to the limiter.

 

That's how it should be!

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What, the dyno report or car pulling all the way to the limiter?

 

Maybe to make their tune more marketable they let off the gas a little sooner on the stock run on the dyno to make the gains of their tune slightly inflated? I personally feel the car starts to run out of steam near readline but not as hard as that dino would suggest?

 

Yeah to be fair its usually 2nd gear where I feel it most. But 3rd and 4th definitely the engine wants to keep going.