@Triumph23 .. i am new to Giulias so i dunno what to compare it to, so in that sense im very ignorant to what is default or normal for this platform. Peak boost and taper along with ignition timing/spark advance and air temps is mostly a note to myself for when i see next logs so i can reread whats on the log rather than having to look at it.

Wish we had wgdc to tell us how close to max they are pushing the turbo, is there no way to monitor that as well?

So far to my newbie eye your log looks great. What fuel are they saying their tune is for and what are you running?

 

The tune is for standard 95 RON fuel but I always run Shell V Power 99 RON.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

A log from someone with EC P2 and an exhaust would be interesting.

 

I have both... and I also have MES with cable obd2.
How do I log?

 

Connect to the ECU, select the "interesting" parameters and switch to "Graph" in MES.
Start recording with ?F10? I believe.

5th gear from 1500 to redline would be ideal.

 

Here you have ec p2, intake, exhaust.

5th dynamic.xlsx

1 file sent via WeTransfer, the simplest way to send your files around the world

we.tl

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

Do you think there is a different lambda to log? Your lambda shows close to 14:1 at redline. Stock giulia at redline is like 11.5:1

 

So someone tell me why I shouldn’t pull the trigger on emotion2+ device and tune from Celtic Tuning. For 377 brits plus shipping plus possible import duties it seems like a steal. Am i missing something?

I assume it allows for no logging but i still plan on getting the mes multiplexed so that would cover that base.

Anyone be devils advocate for me pls.

 

I can confirm it does not log stuff. They are usually slow to respond via email for sales queries and everything goes through a front office so to speak looks like so any techie queries may take time..also they tune a zillion different models so they are usually quite busy. The flashing itself uses an online portal on the emotion website and the turnaround for a mod file after you upload stock file can be less than 24 hours. I got mine within a few hours during UK working hours. I had trouble reading the stock map as the device was looking for a earlier version of the stock map but after contacting them and a delay if 24 hours for them to read my error config file, they sent me an update and I was able to read stock. Everything went smooth after. This needs 3 overspeeds similar to EC for phonic wheel relearn to get rid of the flashing CEL at the end which is normal. Some people on here have had trouble getting rid of the flashing CEL with EC tune. I had the same issue but I figured it out using MES. Emotion looks for engine temp of 70 deg C but MES says phonic wheel reset need a temp of 80 deg C. So I let it heat up and then did the 3 overspeeds and all went fine after.

A lot of unasked for info I know but I thought I should make you aware of the process when comparing to EC which has the details on other threads. I am certainly not the devils advocate am I ?

If you do contact them, let them know you have a USA spec car. You probably do not have GPF so it should be fine.

 

@Triumph23 thanks for the info. i had emailed them 2-3 days ago and they sent me a 1-3 step process. Apparently they offer a 14day refund, may apply only for in person flashing maybe.

I read that the device can hold up to 5 maps, perhaps for the future. Now only need for two i suspect oem and and stg1 tune. I think i will pull the trigger on this, did you end up paying any duty taxes? Who delivered, DHL?

How long would you ssy it takes to flash the ecu to stock or from stock to stg1?

i couldnt find their dyno sheet, would love to see one. I am sure the gains they speak of are peak, but I’d like to compare the new power curve to the oem one. Have you seen one somewhere?

What is GPF? Particulate filter? How do i confirm i dont have one and what if i did?

How about the SGW device? My car is a 2018 but not sure month, and would this be relevant. I actually sent them an email an hr ago reconfirming that their device and tune works with USA spec car and asked about sgw.

 

I forgot to ask @Triumph23 one of the most important questions, does their tune work the same in D and N modes? Or is it limited to one mode only? I forgot to ask them in the email as well..

 

The tune works in all 3 DNA modes. Boost is the same in D and N. D is the most aggressive due to the gearbox logic and pedal response. I much prefer driving in N with the tune to be honest as the auto gear change is calibrated much better for daily driving. D mode holds the gear for too long..I do us D occasionally when shifting manually with paddles on a twisty back road. So both D and N get full 330hp. A is enhanced a bit more than stock A. Combined with the pedal booster I even drive in A sometimes. It is that much better even with overtaking slow cars. Coasting in A stays. No other changes.

It is basically like an enhancement to all 3 modes by the same factor.

I am in the UK so no import duties but I know they ship all over the world.

Their dyno sheet is here: Click on view chart just under the tuned numbers.

Do you own a Alfa Romeo Giulia? Gain up to 21% of torque!

ECU Remapping for Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0 TB 276 bhp. Gain 21% torque with a Stage 1 petrol Tuning. Chip Tuning options available, EGR<br>Removal, Rev limit<br>removal, Speed limit<br>removal.

www.celtictuning.co.uk

GPF is Gasoline Particulate filter, fitted as standard to Euro cars to comply with Euro 6d emissions on the WLTP cycle. Don't think that made it to USA. I know Euro 6d 2.0 cars lose the front resonator from the exhaust just after the cat. So if you have a resonator you mostly likely don't have a GPF.

Once you read the stock file and get the tunes file, subsequent flashing takes about 15 to 20 mins. It takes another 5 to 10 mins to clear the flashing CEL depending on if the engine is upto temp (greater than 80 deg C). Flashing does cause a lot of comms errors in all the various modules but this is something you only see with Multiecuscan. I prefer clearing these all using MES so that I am starting with a clean slate so to speak. Most other OND readers won't even notice or pick up these errors as they cause no symptoms or warnings.

Think SGW was installed from late Jan 2018 IIRC?? If MES can read codes but not clear you probably have SGW. You should get a bypass.

 

Build 10/2017. No SGW hopefully. Cant find MES distributor in USA to buy the MES multiplexed to play with first. I want to get logs while cars is stock pre tune. I emailed their support.

That last EC log from @kozak doesnt look bad either, similar results. What fuel was that ran on?

 

No need of any distributor... you just download the software.
On Multiecuscan - Diagnostics software for Italian cars you click on BUY REGISTERED LICENSE (50 EUR). You don't need the 230 multiplexed unless you plan on working on a bunch of old Fiats and Alfas.
Pay, get the code in the email and the download the software from that page.
As cables, you need a USB to OBD2 cable and the blue and grey OBD2 adapter cables. You'll find them on Amazon/ebay.

 

Alright here are my logs. I didn't realize how big of a stretch you need to get a full fifth gear pull, especially if you live in the city.
The first run is in 5th gear and I stopped at 5500 rpm cause I ran out of space.

datazap.me | ultravincent | Log 1588638299

datazap.me

Second run is in 4th gear with two pulls. Then, the mall security car started coming my way and I left . I'm starting to understand why people move to low density areas.
Those hiccups in the throttle are due to a bump that gave me some airtime.

datazap.me | ultravincent | Log 1588638299

datazap.me

 

Do you have the csv file? I cant stand datazip. Says boost of like 45psi and just a pita to use on a telephone

 

I'm not seeing anything impressive from the EC p2 tune... Nothing more then anything else posted. It also looks like in one of those logs the maf shows flow just chokes off.

Certainly not even remotely close to "390" hp.

 

I'm not seeing anything impressive from the EC p2 tune... Nothing more then anything else posted. It also looks like in one of those logs the maf shows flow just chokes off.

Certainly not even remotely close to "390" hp.

Id agree. Certainly on par with CT log and not better. They arent best of logs these last ones. But id give them 10% for drivetrain loss off their 310whp claim, so 335ish on the crank at the best of conditions. I dunno where or how they come up with 390bhp and 310whp. Thats more than an awd drivetrain loss.

 

MES indicated up to 3 degrees of timing retard when using 95 RON (EC P2 m).

The last log using 100 RON had 0 degrees timing pulled.

 

At what point in the rev range is this timing retarding you reference ? Is it at redline where we are seeing about 4 degrees of timing 'advance' in the tuned plots? I am slightly confused by timing retarding when others were talking about timing advance at peak. Sorry if this is a daft question.

I can certainly say the engine seems to run much smoother and better with Shell V power compared to the lower Octane fuels I have been forced to use occasionally for a couple of tanks at the same time.

 

Also when I have used lower RON 95 fuel I found the fuel economy was better for the same average driving that I do everyday for the same tankful of fuel. I always thought it was a bit strange. Could ignition timing have anything to do with this on the lower octane or say factory tuned octane fuel (In my UK handbook they recommend 95 RON or above)?

 

All i can contribute is that CT tune is made for UK 95RON or ideally 98RON, per their email this morning.

I didnt see any knock control in any of the logs either but perhaps no one is logging the necessary parameters to show it?

Some of you guys running 93oct in usa could add a splash of e85 (1gal-2gal/full tank) to see if it helps with (full) timing advance. But we arent sure what that is either, we are only seeing 3-4deg uptop and comparing that to other tunes. Thats just real life/current timing.

Where are you guys seeing ignition timing retard/pull? Are you looking at ignition timing?

 

Here's an example.
MES calls it "spark advance reduction"

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

@stocki... time 134-140sec, how come your rpm is all over the place with throttle at 99.8%? We got 6132rpm then 4978 then 5053 then 5300.. are you seeing what im talking about?

But you got 3.375deg up top too. Anything in MES parameters mentioning knock or perhaps wastegate/wgdc?

Thanks for all your input on MES. Alfissimo is out of his 115$ package for obdii interface and two cables. Gonna try finding them on ebay or amazon, but what exactly am i looking for as im certain it isnt blue and grey connector (albeit the grey one says grey on it lol).

 

This log was just to demonstrate spark advance reduction.
It was auto-shifting through the gears (not locked to 5th)

 

@Dj-oohlya There is nothing resembling WGDC or wastegate under 2.0 engine in MES. The Quadrifoglio has one. See last image.

There are Knock sensor voltage signals for each cylinder. Have you downloaded a copy of MES and had a play in simulation mode? You don't need to connect to ECU or need a cable for that.

In MES there is a top level spark advance and then individual cylinder reduction adjustments based on measured knock from the top level target set by the ecu. I only logged the top level spark advance. I will log the knock sensor and individual cylinder reductions next time.

 

@Triumph23 i have not downloaded it yet. I am at work currently and looking up where i can get the cables. I found the grey one on ebay, lead 6 they call it. I found the other too, lead 5.

I do plan to download it tonight or tomorrow most likely and play with it a bit. But I know i will be buying it if nothing to help me get rid of oil change reminder in my infotainment and dash and troubleshoot stuff on as need basis.

I did get an email back from CT and looks like im good to go and dont need a SGW most likely due to car being 10/2017 production.

@Triumph23 wouldnt turbo actuator arm % be same as wgdc%?

 

Just got the obd to usb and the two cables from a bloke in UK on ebay for 45 quid.

Do i sound British at all?

 

Lol. Yo bruv. Very brit. In'it!

Alfissimo has the cables on his webshop in USA. Good news on the CT being compatible. Hit me up if you need any install help.

That turbo actuator screenshot is from Quadrifoglio module simulation! Nothing on 2.0

 

Ok so I managed a log using MES QV selection option to get WGDC which is labelled Turbo actuator command. I also logged Turbo Vacuum Valve position which shows as Open only at the end of the redline run in 5th gear. Not sure what this means, wastegate open fully?

Rest of the parameters look ok, not sure they are 100 % accurate compared to connecting as 2.0 ECU, the vehicle speed in km/h for example is completely off, I was doing more like 100mph+ at redline. Max boost was ~30psig but in subsequent runs it seemed to jump up and down a little so I picked the best run at the beginning.

So what does this WGDC numbers tell? I have no idea! It is late again at night!!

 

Ok so I managed a log using MES QV selection option to get WGDC which is labelled Turbo actuator command. I also logged Turbo Vacuum Valve position which shows as Open only at the end of the redline run in 5th gear. Not sure what this means, wastegate open fully?

Rest of the parameters look ok, not sure they are 100 % accurate compared to connecting as 2.0 ECU, the vehicle speed in km/h for example is completely off, I was doing more like 100mph+ at redline. Max boost was ~30psig but in subsequent runs it seemed to jump up and down a little so I picked the best run at the beginning.

So what does this WGDC numbers tell? I have no idea! It is late again at night!!

View attachment 98378 View attachment 98379

Is it from 2.0t? What tune do you have? 3040mbar desired is very high.

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

I dunno how to interpret the entire plot, but desired boost dives together with actual boost at near the redline. It appears that something is being protected rather than squeezed for max performance.

My 1971 Norton Commando had max horsepower at the redline; a less desirable situation than you might think. One miss-shift and you get to rebuild the head...

Don't forget although it is often possible to squeeze a little extra (inefficient) boost out of a turbo, that can result in overspeeding the turbine which can then explode or otherwise fail. The PCM also has to guess at and manage turbine RPM.

 

Reading this article again, assuming the WGDC measurent on my graph is reasonably correct, it seems like WGDC is rising gradually, steadily from 6% to 57% and is not maxing out even at the redline when I hit the rev limiter or was close to it and I backed off, meaning there are no significant restrictions on the exhaust side? Can someone review and explain if this looks correct and what you interpret from it for turbo performance/ECU control of the boost/wastegate?

The tune appears to be well calibrated for a nice low down fat midrange torque and still enough grunt at the top end. My car certainly feels rapid with the way it builds speed. I feel the restriction is now the factory Cat for the turbo perhaps? I certainly do not want to lose the nice low/mid range torque I have for the sake of extra power at the redline where I rarely drive, except when I am data logging So no bigger turbo or high flow cat/catless downpipe for massive dustbin sized exhausts for me.

Blog : Stratified Automotive Controls

Stratified Automotive Controls : Blog - Sensors Decals and Swag Water-Methanol Injection BMW N54/N55 Subaru WRX and STI STRATIFIED Products Gift Certificates Spark Plugs & Coils Porsche DYNO Reservation Flash Tuning Tools BRZ / GR86 / GT86 VW / AUDI FORD Nissan/Infiniti Honda / Acura GR...

stratifiedauto.com

 

Yes your interpretation is correct. I think the turbo isnt maxing out assuming thats a true and accurate reflection of wgdc. In Subaru world a send it map has a wgdc of 99% maxing out the turbo effectively.. but, also in Subaru world youd expect to see a higher wgdc when building boost (wot conditions) and your value seems to increase slowly from 0-50s as if its building boost without wgdc being actuated. I feel, and i am no tuner just and ethusiast really, that true wgdc should be 99 when you stomp on it to build boost quickly then back off to 50s for example. Makes me think the value may be reversed or representing something else, or working with some other parameter. These are all guesses. So what i an saying is that 0s should be 99% and then when you built boost it drops to 20-30s which is equivalent of 99 minus 20-30 you have so resulting in 70-80 wgdc effectively to hold 28psi there. So basically read values as subtracted from what wgdc values should be for it to make sense. Reversed.. again i think it has to be to make sense. Wgdc cant be 0 when making boost, it should he 99%, hence reversed perhaps cuz its actuator and not the wastegate itself.

iDatalink refunded my money on ebay due to ‘rona19. I dont see grey snd blue cables on Alfissimo website, only as part of a 115$ package with obd to usb but thats out of stock. Will look elsewhere online but local to usa.

 

On stock turbo 2.1b in peak isn't it too high?
Do you have possibilities to measure 100-200km/h?

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

On stock turbo 2.1b in peak isn't it too high?
Do you have possibilities to measure 100-200km/h?

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

Have a look at post #236 and the link to my CORRECT datalog. I cannot log 60-130mph or 100-200km/h , no dragy and no legal roads
Like I already explained 2.1b or 3044mbar absolute peak boost is measured using the 2.9V6 MES setting (for logging WGDC which only 2.9V6 engine setting allows) which sometime reports erroneous values. Look at my CORRECT log before jumping the gun

 

So when you say “it seems like WGDC is rising gradually, steadily from 6% to 57% and is not maxing out..” i think the wgdc should be 99% while building boost under wot then back off gradually to lower values as desired boost is achieved, then stay there maintaining the boost by modulating wgdc. But this value is reversed. So i dunno.

Perhaps do a random 10sec log going off and on boost so we can track actuator value with your pedal request and see what its doing when requesting boost. In your last log it was 0 well into boost then backed off to 6 (think 99-6).. etc.

I could be wrong. Speculation based on what i am seeing. But if correct its the same thing basically just reversed 0-100 vs 100-0.

 

Maybe the readouts are simply wrong because he was using the QV PIDs?
Just because they read something - doesn't mean they're correct.

 

@stocki maybe but it does correlate nicely to what wgdc should be if you reversed the scale to 0-100?

As far as things read wrong, does anyone find lambda .95-1 strange? Is it also wrong or just strange? 🤷🏻‍♂️

On another note, i found two more companies that tune in UK and remap at your home, with money back guarantees, from 90 quid for a remap. Seems you guys are luckier than we are in North America.

 

@stocki maybe but it does correlate nicely to what wgdc should be if you reversed the scale to 0-100?
As far as things read wrong, does anyone find lambda .95-1 strange? Is it also wrong or just strange? 🤷🏻‍♂️

It is possibly reversed like you say or incorrect PID from QV as @stocki says. But @DeXa was the one who originally suggested or was it correct the last time he checked, I have linked his post below here. Perhaps he can chip in and clarify if my log is correct and how to interpret it??

wiTECH yes. In MES you can get it by selecting QV as base and in engine you can find it (ignore the ISO thing, just continue). Its reading was accurate last time I've checked, but don't rely on other data when using the QV ECM as base.

On another note, i found two more companies that tune in UK and remap at your home, with money back guarantees, from 90 quid for a remap. Seems you guys are luckier than we are in North America.

There are a lot of tuning companies who are either mobile or shop with dynos but very few can tune Giulias. The ones you refer to are generic tuners who just buy a Giulia map someone else has developed and flash it. It will be upwards of £300 or £400 in reality but I would rather trust Celtic Tuning who are well known and develop all their maps in house on their own dynos. There are a couple of Alfa specialists who tune as well, AHM for example, their main man has a QF of his own. The do not offer a self tuning device and I will need to go there.

Alfa Romeo Remaps | AHM Alfacare

alfacare.co.uk