Don't know about the Giulia, but on Stelivo, in MES the temp after the intercooler is "Air Temperature", the other one "Boost/Manifold" is the temperature before the cooler. How are you monitoring the temps? See attached images. The stats are taken after 10 minutes at speeds of the other photo.

 

I knew there had to be a proper iat sensor post ic. Unfortunately the generic pids used by jb4 and most scan tools are grabbing the pre ic iats. Thats what im displaying and logging and id love to not be

 

I think the post IC sensor is not exposed in the generic pids. As you can see the MES developers messed that up as well. I figured it out using wiTECH 2.0 and comparing. Also by logic, cause Air Temp goes up a bit on accel, but it cannot be MAF temp, because it is too high, and I figured it's post IC. After all I concluded the cooler, is more than adequate and it does not need upgrading for more aggresive tunes. Maybe a LC pump upgrade is more apropriate. Also keep in mind that NAFTA cars, have one less cooler (the lower drivers side front). Here in EU we have 2 small on each side and 2 big center coolers, so maybe that is also why I don't see the post IC temp as a limiting factor. Also keep in mind this is Stelvio not Giulia!

 

Youre a pioneer brother. Now if i could just find a way at it nice to know there are potentially some euro heat exchanger plug and play upgrades then too if necessary.

 

You'll also need some piping. Have a look at the attached pdf. The additional cooler is for the HT system though ... If someone is observing high post IC temps, the problem is elswhere, maybe a bad ECM software. There was a service bulletin for problems with WCAC pump. Today it was installed on my Stelvio, but I was with the old software, when the photos were taken. Now I have to remap again and see if there is any change.

 

Very nice self study guide. Where do you get the guides you have?

Looks like the stelvio does have to additional low temp side mount radiators. Interesting.

Im toying with the idea of running the lt pump in emergency 100% flow mode but not touching it until i can find a way to measure post ic iats. Grrr. I may try a foxwell nt530. Had surprisingly good luck with them

 

If someone is observing high post IC temps

And how may someone observe those values, and others? What tool is best/cheapest to use?

New to Alfas, and would love to monitor half a dozen parameters to see whats happening BEFORE i start tuning away. Considering OBDII BT dongle with Torque app, is there a better solution? I want to at least see pre charge air temps, post ic temps, engine oil, coolant temp, trims, afr, etc. Coming off a Cobb AP device.

 

Multiecuscan multiplexed I think is the most economically feasible at this time

 

But we Dont have 100% sure if the " air temp" is after cooling.

I look into alfa sheets and there is no iat sensor after cooling in mainfold.

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

The map sensor is a dual sensor map/iat

 

@stocki MES 4.6 multiplexed can datalog everything the car sends to the OBD. I have used Torque Pro for basic logging but you have to try and figure out what some of the descriptions are with trial and error, there are a few duplicates.

Good info @DeXa . I did not realise the Stelvio 2.0 has 2 additional radiators. I wonder why though, it is basically the same engine with same power pretty much as in the Giulia. Is that because Stelvio engine bay has more room and they decided to "split" the main radiator and send the LT return to separate radiators. But why two additional ones and add to complexity, why not just one? It is puzzling.

A colleague of mine has the Stelvio. I might have a look at his car (UK 2.0) and see the layout.

 

For a preference, here is couple "real life" pictures lol.

 

I did logs on 4th, the air temp is 45-47 Celsius degrees.

Left side is "air temperature", on the right is "temp mainfold"

But the higher is marked as turbo-mainfold temp.

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

I did logs on 4th, the air temp is 45-47 Celsius degrees.

Left side is "air temperature", on the right is "temp mainfold"

But the higher is marked as turbo-mainfold temp.

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

That is a damn good stock heat exchanger despite it being right on the side of the intake of the engine.

 

Thats fantastic. The fact that its going down with speed is great. That shows the ic system is so efficient that the increased air speed over the hx are bringing iats down more than the turbo is heating them. I usually see them rise up to 130mph or so then hit a plateau where the crazy air speed over the hx keeps the iat from rising further. If i can keep iat from hitting 60c im super stoked. Hope this data is all true

 

It is controlled constantly by ECM (LT pump PWM), so when you hit the gas pedal it proactively increases the flow thats why temps go down, when idling or going slow the pump is not running at all sometimes. I will try to log with wiTECH and post here so you can see the pump PWM, LT coolant temp and more stuff as well.

Here are the same documents for Giulia, so you can see the differences.I also included Giulia QV cooling so you can see if it is possible to add the additional radiators.

 

So it looks like intake temp is not a problem. 50celsius is good temp.

I measure mine while outside was 20 Celsius.

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

So we have cooled charged air temps and post turbo temps. Thats excellent and great numbers too.

Kozak, what tool are you using to monitor this? I am considering different tools to be able to monitor parameters, thats why i ask.


I live in Arizona so it gets 50c outside here, and 40c plus for half a year, wonder how that will translate into intake temps in my application.

 

I'm using multiecuscan.
Previous tuner says that heat is the problem, but he didn't log the car.
I mount bigger turbo and power is the same. I got only bigger torque till 3500rpm. Than it's the same as before turbo. I also don't know if he make new map...

Im talking with other tuner and we will see.


Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

I'm using multiecuscan.
Previous tuner says that heat is the problem, but he didn't log the car.
I mount bigger turbo and power is the same. I got only bigger torque till 3500rpm. Than it's the same as before turbo. I also don't know if he make new map...

Im talking with other tuner and we will see.


Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

Can you log specified vs actual boost and wgdc to make sure boost (load, tq) targets are set high enough in mid upper rev band?

Also thats odd a larger turbo is even able to make more boost than the smaller turbo down low. You sure they sized it correctly?

 

In multiecuscan desired boost is the same as before turbo. I don't know if someone changed the maps...

Deisred boost at 5500 is 2570mbar, real is 2650mbar. So I assume that turbo has potential but ecm cut them off.
When I got ec tune, I also make logs, and sutuation was the same, I thought thay Deisred should he higher at 5500. Ec told me than in tune is higher, so why multiecusan shows something different?

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

In multiecuscan desired boost is the same as before turbo. I don't know if someone changed the maps...

Deisred boost at 5500 is 2570mbar, real is 2650mbar. So I assume that turbo has potential but ecm cut them off.
When I got ec tune, I also make logs, and sutuation was the same, I thought thay Deisred should he higher at 5500. Ec told me than in tune is higher, so why multiecusan shows something different?

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

I would have the same question as you. Desired boost at 5500rpm is going to need to be alot higher than that. Id show logs to tuner and ask more questions. Why not just run jb4 on custom map 6 so you can set your own boost targets per rpm? Thats what many are having to do with the new hybrid turbos on the turbo b9 audi s4

 

I don't trust him so I will not go to him anymore.
He has car for 3 days... Make only 5 runs on dyno.
Unfortunetly for him i got dashcam which record all the time... I search records and I didn't see any calibration after load new map (3 times rpm to max).

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

If anyone has the PID for the correct IAT or a link to where to buy the scan tool we'd be happy to code it in to the JB4.

 

Hi, jb4 could handle of tune engine with new bigger turbo?

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

I've been able to turn off traction control through canbus commands but it unfortunately needs to be done from a different canbus than the one that the JB4 is connected too.. Poop

 

Thanks man. Cant blame a guy for dreaming

 

We can only hope Terry knows a better way

 

Here is a run from 60km/h to 200km/h. You can see the the intake temp (mainfold - correct one cause this is official FCA diag) never goes above 50 when loaded, also LT coolant temp is low as well. Maybe a pump upgrade is needed for lower temps. This is at 25C ouside temp. You can also see the waste gate is opening, so ECM is limiting boost, not the turbo. In my case I have some issue with airflow rate not being high enough, this was discussed with my tuner as well, but we couldn't figure out why. At the moment my car is on stock ECM map, so if you like I can test more stuff, unfortunately wiTECH is very limited in the way it shows the logs, also no way to export in csv to play with it in excel.

 

What kind of tuning platform or interface is the new tuner using? And is he logging and tuning or just flashing a map for you?

I am trying to learn about all the options out there for tuning the my north American giulia2L Q2 (280hp ecu spec). But id prefer a proper tune where there is at least a few 2-5 revisions to see how the car is responding and recalibrating if necessary. So far i only have access to a canned/shelf tune which is flash and forget. Blind faith i guess.

Anyhow, looks like i will start w getting the mutilecuscan tool multiplexes version to just play with it for a while and see whats happening in Arizona summer coming up. Its 100F already everyday. I also want to see what i will be able to calibrate playing with the multiecuscan tool, not just engine related. Plus i will need a way to reset infotainment service reminder.

Thanks for your input in this thread, i find it very helpful and insightful.

 

But to make power you need at 5000 at least 1.7, stock turbo will not give you such boost.

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

But to make power you need at 5000 at least 1.7, stock turbo will not give you such boost.

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

Quite a bit of power can be gained by not tapering off power as the redline is approached (a major part of what EC P2 does for top-end power). With my stock turbo, EC V2 intake and Fiammenghi exhaust I see 18PSI boost = 1.24 bar at the redline at 7000' (about 2000m) elevation. I expect that it can do better at lower elevations. However, my point is that 2.57bar boost at 5500RPM is nothing to complain about and it might even be too much without more HW changes. The boost change alone should get you a large increase in power, at least if the fuel pump and injectors can keep up. If you meant 2.57 bar absolute pressure at near sea level, that is not obviously any improvement over stock.

 

@DeXa, where exactly is the GPF located on the Euro 6d 2.0 cars? I believe Alfa have got rid of the resonator from the front pipe on the GPF cars, is that correct and do you know the reason why?

Also, when you say larger diameter, I find that 2.5" factory size is good for 350hp already so why bother going larger size? The larger pipes seem to resonate more and change the tone of the exhaust to more of a deep bassy note rather than the sharp tone that will suit the car IMO. I don't see the point of going 3" on this car.

Lots of questions. Sorry

 

The boost target isn't an absolute number... You can easily get over 22psi stock under the right ambient conditions

 

See this:

This is a run in 5th 2000-6000, see how boost starts to taper gradually at 5000 rpm, then suddenly at 5800 it just drops, the run stops at 6050 rpm. This is a limit, its not like "I can make 2700 mbar up until 5000 rpm, and I can only make 2400 mBar at 5800 rpm and 2200 mBar at 5950 rpm". This must be linear and not a "wall" like it this.

 

You can hit 25psi stock but not at redline

 

I can hit 28 stock and I've seen 30, but don't have it logged.

Found one with even more and some spikes as well. This is at 944 mBar atmospheric.Unfortunately no RPM logged in this one.

 

In case anyone can make use of it:
Here are two logs.
EC P2 (stock exhaust detuned), EC V1, Sprint Filter, GFB DV+

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

What did you log it with MES or Torque? I am assuming MES. I will try and do the same. I have an UK tune by Celtic to ~325hp. Will be interesting to compare against the EC one.

My mods: Remus axle back, Sprint filter, GFB DV+, 19" QF size wheels, Seletron Pedal booster. So not too different except the tune.

Guys, so how exactly should I do the run in 5th gear? Car properly warmed up to 3 bars on the oil temp gauge first and just hold the throttle Wide Open until red line? Want to make sure I am doing it right.

 

Can someone make logs of stock?

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

Can someone make logs of stock?

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

My stock is 200hp version so of not much use. Maybe someone else could?