[dcpattie]

After enjoying the QV for a few weeks, I suggest that we consider the risks that we assume by NOT buying an Alfa Romeo Giulia.

Possible risks:

- Lack of fulfillment.
- Slave to German technology.
- Attempting to function as as a pure rationalist while retaining an ounce of humanity.


Other risks?

I love it.

In many ways that's how I feel about my SAAB NG9-5 Aero. Sure I took a HUGE depreciation hit (54K new in 2010 now worth < 10K) and the warranty was null and void after year, but the engineering and ergonomics of the car were incredible and it was a shame it was not widely noticed by the automotive world.

What does suck is the lack of replacement parts. Some insurance companies "totaled" cars with simple repairs because the replacement part was not available. I actually purchased the last rear "Light Bar" in North America in 2013 until the part became available the next year. They did not have replacement windshields for about 2-years, etc.

 

[conradnarra]

I love it.

In many ways that's how I feel about my SAAB NG9-5 Aero. Sure I took a HUGE depreciation hit (54K new in 2010 now worth < 10K) and the warranty was null and void after year, but the engineering and ergonomics of the car were incredible and it was a shame it was not widely noticed by the automotive world.

What does suck is the lack of replacement parts. Some insurance companies "totaled" cars with simple repairs because the replacement part was not available. I actually purchased the last rear "Light Bar" in North America in 2013 until the part became available the next year. They did not have replacement windshields for about 2-years, etc.

Well in fairness, the SAAB sounds tough on both the depreciation and spare parts fronts.

Regarding FCA, one of my contacts who is a tier two parts supplier said that at FCA there seems to be no pull-back from longer-term development. Suppliers often spot downturns early, as at such times OEM design engineers and others become scarce. Hopefully this proves meaningful for the rest of us!

 

[Chris@Eurocompulsion]

After enjoying the QV for a few weeks, I suggest that we consider the risks that we assume by NOT buying an Alfa Romeo Giulia.

Possible risks:

- Lack of fulfillment.
- Slave to German technology.
- Attempting to function as as a pure rationalist while retaining an ounce of humanity.


Other risks?

Well put!

 

[autostocks]

FCA accused of emissions cheating just like VW for its 3.0 diesel, I'm not sure if FCA has the capital to survive. They better hope Trump's EPA will go easy on them. http://www.motor1.com/news/133461/fiat-chrysler-diesel-emissions/

Accused is not equal to guilty. Obama's administration is bound and determined to go down swinging. Let's hope cooler heads prevail.


Also note this is not "just like" the VW 3.0L diesel issue at all. It is alleged that the VW 3.0L diesel only meets the legal emission requirements in a “temperature conditioning” mode that is automatically switched on during testing conditions, while at all other times, including during normal vehicle operation, the vehicles operate in a 'normal mode' that permits NOx emissions of up to nine times the federal standard. VW has admitted the violations.


The complaint against the FCA diesel is that FCA failed to disclose certain engine management software. FCA claims the software is legal. There's a huge difference.

 

[dcpattie]

U.S. SUES FCA OVER DIESEL EMISSIONS:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/u-s-sues-fca-diesel-emissions/

 

[FX_Hedge]

I don't care at all if FCA makes it or not 3 to 5 years from now...in the meantime, I will LOVE my Giulia and have a blast! Life is too short to worry about if FCA will make it or not 3 or 5 years from now.

 

[FX_Hedge]

U.S. SUES FCA OVER DIESEL EMISSIONS:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/u-s-sues-fca-diesel-emissions/

Yep - the ongoing assault against business (jobs destruction) as they piss around over the stupid emissions regulations that are pretty insane as currently written.

 

[John_K_348]

Folks,

As an experienced Ferrari owner now for several years, let me give you my take on the the current FCA situation. Here on the automile in Norwood, south of Boston, the closest dealer to downtown, Ferrari and Maserati have been paired up since I ventured down to the Mazda Gallery to buy my Miata in 2000. Probably longer. It has been a good match. They just finished a renovation of both sides of the showroom.

I am almost positive that Ferrari was sold in an ipo to RAISE capital for FCA, especially AFTER the acquisition of Chrysler. All of those "Amurcan" muscle car guys asking and bragging about Hemi's have to admit now that they are Fiats! Well in name anyway, haha. Chrysler was fouled up, Fiat bought them. So now Fiat, like Mercedes Benz before, have an infusion of Mopar engine technology. I think MB capitalized as evident in the 3 year WDC dominance in F1. The Chrysler Crossfire was the only thing to come out of that deal before the change to V6 turbo hybrids in F1. Now at least, Chrysler Dodge has got the retro bug and are doing pretty well. Fiat Abarth is doing fine. The Mazda/Alfa rumor turned out to be Mazda/Fiat. That's a decent match with the 124. Incidentally, some secret facia drawings we saw on Miata.net were not Miata but Fiat fascias, with a little more chibi cute touches than actual production. A couple of the Alfa dealers are paried with Maserati around the suburbs. I am close with the local Central Fiat Alfa here in Norwood. While I have heard complaints about the staff and facility, David has been on top of things the whole time and is a great car guy. His boss, the owner I think, was generous with stories of tracking the Quads at corporate events and enjoyed trash talking the M3s and such. I do not believe Alfa Romeo is in trouble at it's base. Setting records at the Nordschleife does not compute with that. The marketing, ordering and dealership end, however, could use some work. Advertising is great but the practical network and delivery end is showing weakness. But it's new and it needs to improve. I like the pairing with Fiat, only because it gives me some breathing room between my Ferrari collector car and a more practical fun car for life and retirement. Not an actual daily driver but close to it. I can keep the Miata as a track car and beater as long as it lasts. Probably better than trying to sell or trade it. It's fine in the snow and less miles outside of winter will probably help. Alfa Romeo and Maserati may make some moves but you have heard about the Ghibli right? It's even more Chrysler than the Giulia. The Giulia is new and well engineered. A few tweaks and you will see the landscape change. Just like the Fiat 500. Any Mopar guys give you the treatment about "Fiat" and you can tell them to kiss cinquecento butt.

 

[Monch]

My local ALFA dealers carry FIAT, ALFA and Maserati under the same roof. One even has Jeep. I don't see how you sell and service a $20K and $200K car in the same dealership. Very different customers and expectations. I can see ALFA and Maserati paired up, but Fiat??

 

[MDriver]

Where do you Begin with this???

first off FCA isn't going anywhere anytime soon...much too much at stake financially & politically.
that said...the automobile industry has changed dramatically in the last 20 years...some were ahead of the curve..other's got caught with their pants down...GM consolidated the brand by eliminating Oldsmobile/Pontiac...
the German 800lb gorilla is named Volkswagen-Porsche-Audi....a consolidation that started in 1966 when Audi was acquired by them and in 2011 when Porsche was wholly acquired by VW....
Ford is in ****...having just nicely fired their CEO...
Marchionne has always known the end game was to partner with someone once Fiat took over the remaining interest in Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep brand. That the Jeep brand could not keep Chrysler/Dodge afloat on its own...problem is finding the right suitor....can anyone say Tata??
As far as the emissions issue....big difference between what Volkwagen did than what FCA is being accused of...pay the fine and move on...simple gvt. money grab IMHO.
Airbag issues belong to anyone who used Takata..which was almost everyone...
while I feel for the SAAB board member here....SAAB was a dying brand to begin with in the USA unfortunately...not that they didn't make well engineered cars...they were quirky/niche` cars that had a small customer base.best year for them was like 48k sold...they picked the wrong partner to save them GM killed them..
is Alfa/Maser better off as a stand alone? not sold out of FIAT or Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealers?? ABSO-F'in lutely!....the buyer being courted from BMW, Merc, Audi is used to a different kind of dealer experience....especially from the service standpoint....moreover new platform/models require techs with serious training..as has been demonstrated time over....
Don't think anyone should be freaking out here....remember when a little sports car company was literally on the balz of the their a$$ and they made a thing called a Cayenne??...I'm willing to bet that the Stelvio IF it does not have all the silly gremlins in it...will mark a turning point for Alfa...it will literally become the horse that pulls the cart...
Time will bare us out either way
till then...drive it like you stole it..!
Salve
M

 

[Chipshot]

We've all read the reports that FCA is finically in trouble. That only the Ram and Jeep brands are worth saving. That FCA cannot find a partner to merge with. Before purchasing the Giulia, is Alfa Romeo's long term health a factor in your overall decision?

I ask these questions as someone who was burned by the SAAB-Spyker debacle. I purchased a new 2010 9-5 aero and by the end of 2011 the company was out of business and all my warranty's were worthless. Also the resale value of my car (MSRP of 54K) tanked and parts for the car quickly became an issue (and I was still paying the car off). Only 2800 made it to the US (a true unicorn). So I do worry about Alfa's long term prospects in the ultra competitive automotive market.

Would you accept a job offer from FCA, if interesting work and competitive financially?

 

[inikkor]

Yes it is but not for the reason posted by the OP. I believe that the incompetence of the dealership network is a far greater risk.

 

[Alfaholico]

Dealers

I guess I should feel fortunate to be in NY because Alfredo's in Larchmont and Westbury in Long Island are very competent and well run.....Re: "is buying an Alfa Romeo risky" and comparing it to SAAB's demise...Very different issues here and no direct comparison....SAAB was purchased by GM who had no love and / or respect for SAAB's heritage and fans....they did everything they could to de-SAAB the SAAB...Alfa is loved by FCA because FCA knows of Alfa's historical pedigree and it's tremendous past (something SAAB never had)....So, feel safe, buy ALFA, snub the Germans...they're boring and ubiquitous....if you want to see yourself coming and going, buy a BMW....if you want to feel yourself going...FORZA ALFA BABY...

 

[kris_go]

I feel really sorry for Alfa fans in the US. In Poland, which has never been their primary market, the dealer network has been present for the last 20 years or so, selling and servicing 156s, 159s, Giuliettas etc. I am not sure what percentage of revenues they expect from US vs other markets, but here the dealers should not be an issue. I understand that buying a highly sophisticated model, like the Q and not being able to properly service it is a huge pain in the a**.

As for the risk of buying an Alfa -- I think the situation is slightly different vs SAAB. FCA is now making a big investment to revive Alfa as one of their premium brands. They have invested into the new platform and have several models lined up. They are managed by a smart CEO, they have no history of several ownership changes and general instability like SAAB had had before the NG9-5.
However -- Giulia Q is a new model, built on a new platform. It's difficult to predict the reliability and service cost. What I'm doing to survive in this situation is to lease the car in what effectively is a long-term rental agreement, where the leasing company bears all the service costs in return for a flat monthly fee (ca. 70USD).

 

[MDriver]

I guess I should feel fortunate to be in NY because Alfredo's in Larchmont and Westbury in Long Island are very competent and well run.....Re: "is buying an Alfa Romeo risky" and comparing it to SAAB's demise...Very different issues here and no direct comparison....SAAB was purchased by GM who had no love and / or respect for SAAB's heritage and fans....they did everything they could to de-SAAB the SAAB...Alfa is loved by FCA because FCA knows of Alfa's historical pedigree and it's tremendous past (something SAAB never had)....So, feel safe, buy ALFA, snub the Germans...they're boring and ubiquitous....if you want to see yourself coming and going, buy a BMW....if you want to feel yourself going...FORZA ALFA BABY...

Uh not so sure about Larchmont and I received the first Quad from them. My ordeal is well documented here. They were very good on the sell side. They were overwhelmed on the service side when my Quad developed a serious issue that they could not repair after an extended stay and constant back and forth with Alfa engineers.
John was great to deal with and Mr Alfredo was true to his word on the sell side. When the car was having drive ability issues I never got a call from Mr Alfredo or the manager. poor Steve had to try and deal with everything. A nice young man but clearly in over his head on the Quad.

 

[DragonKart]

I worked with a dealer here in the Bay Area (north of San Francisco) to order my Ti. The dealership sold Maseratis, Bentleys , Aston Martin and Alfas. Great experience - the salesman knew the car well. Now I just have to wait on delivery.

 

[MDriver]

I worked with a dealer here in the Bay Area (north of San Francisco) to order my Ti. The dealership sold Maseratis, Bentleys , Aston Martin and Alfas. Great experience - the salesman knew the car well. Now I just have to wait on delivery.

That is what EVERYONE has been saying since the beginning! Alfa needs to be paired to high-line marque dealers...
Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep are fine brands...but they don't cross market with the Alfa Romeo buyer...especially in the service end...
Your asking a dealer who sells predominately domestic brands to mechanically service a brand new platform vehicle whose drive train was designed by Ferrari engineers....
IF Alfa is sold exclusively through Maser-Ferrati dealers....I believe consumer confidence will rise...
Again only time will bear this all out.
Salve
M

 

[SylviaOlson]

I'm still confident that they're going to be okay in the long run

 

[Callisto]

I'm still confident that they're going to be okay in the long run

 

[Callisto]

Buying owning and servicing has always been a niche market and a bit risky. Doing it for 42 years now. Don’t think FIAT would allow to fail worldwide but US market never going to be strong unless they make a QV pickup. Lol