[JohnnyTheBeast]

okay so @toby@eurocompulsion and anyone else concerned, I have a pretty big update on this issue...

Basically, as per my last update, the car went into limp mode after about a week of problem-free driving.

*fast forward about 48 hours*

I went out to dinner last night.
When I left the house, limp mode.
When I left the restaurant, limp mode.
When I left the cafe we got dessert from after, the car turned on with no lights or faults at all.

--

I went out later in the night and ran a few tests of my own...

Basically, I figured out how to get the car in and out of limp mode on demand.
I was able to get it both in and out of limp mode TWICE within 10 minutes of each other and got it on video the second time.

You'll notice that there aren't any fault codes whatsoever at the beginning of the video.
The car is in 1st gear and D mode the entire time.
I rev it all the way up and the car hits a "soft" 6,000 rpm rev limiter at first.
I held the throttle all the way down at the rev limiter seems to unlock to the full 6,400 rpm.
The car was already fully warmed up and there's no reason it should have limited to less than 6,400 in the first place, but okay.
Once the rev limiter "unlocks", it only takes a few revs past 6,000 to get the car to kick into the HARD limp mode.

After one engine cycle (engine off, door open, door close, engine on) it goes into regular limp mode.
I had previously resorted to disconnecting the battery, thinking it was the only way to get the car entirely out of limp mode (thanks @Eagle7), but it turns out that it just takes a TON of engine cycles.
I was expecting like 5 or 6 cycles but counted something like 25-30 full engine cycles until all the lights magically went away.


So...
-2nd gear isn't triggering it for me anymore
-1st triggers it almost immediately
-Rev Limiter constantly gets stuck at 6,000 in 1st
-Only triggered on revs above 6,000

This leads me to believe that this problem could actually be linked to the Rev Limiter.
I'd assume that us guys with P&B are just more inclined to push the revs that high often enough to trigger it.
Even when in park or neutral, the rev limiter often decided that it doesn't want to go over 6,000.
As far as I can tell so far, it seems to be totally random, but I can confirm that it doesn't have anything to do with engine temperature as I've tested it out both with the engine hot and cold.

Here's the best video I got:
https://youtu.be/f4Vwd25sp1Q

P.S. @Toby, just got your email as I was finishing this up, opening it now.

 

[JohnnyTheBeast]

I do not believe it is caused by pops and bangs, although each person (there are 3 total) is running the pops and bangs tune.

I have sent all (3) of them an email privately to narrow down a pattern for what the issue may be. The problem is, one of the users is running the same software version as our car, and is literally running the same tune we are (pops and bangs). We have the same mods, etc. I have tried to replicate the issue based on the information I have (many times), and I can't seem to do it.

Also, we are not making pops and bangs happen by dumping fuel. All of this is done by manipulation of timing, and the igniting of the fuel happens outside of the combustion chamber in the exhaust. But, I will say that this is simply a show feature. It doesn't add any performance to the car in anyway, and is not necessary.

The only pattern I've been able to see between these occurrences is they run the same tune, but also a previous (and possibly unresolved issue) trouble with the rev process and remaining flashing CEL while driving. This will throw the throttle self learn off, and the ECU will not fully match up throttle/pedal position and rpm. Throw in a raised rev limiter without the proper learning procedure, and we have possible problems. Why I think this is the ECU will target different redlines based on many different variables (coolant temp, oil temp, air temp, etc). It has a programmable fuel cut higher than the standard redline (which has also been raised). For whatever reason, I believe in these instances the car is targeting different RPM limits based on variables with each of their cars and environments. If the throttle position learn is off, or the margin between the rpm redline and fuel cut gets too close, it will do what it does by default to shut things down because it thinks something has gone wrong, and what it has done in each of these cases: disable the wastegate and throttle, eliminating the ability to make boost, hence the limp home mode.

Each one of these cases is occurring in the same scenario: lower gear, manual mode, higher rpm and bouncing near the redline in order to induce pops and bangs. Hence why I believe it has something to do with the rev limiter in either situation.

But I have emailed them for more information, and we will get it resolved.

wow... I think you're spot on Toby.

This information totally corresponds with what I was feeling.

 

[AlfaAndy]

I used to make my own pops&bangs in my bone stock 1972 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser with the Rocket 350 and the 4 throat carburetor. At speed, cycle the ignition switch to OFF for a few seconds, then turn back to ignition ON. Big pops&bangs! Loved it! Had to replace a few mufflers. Also, I would go WOT in reverse and, without letting up the accelerator pedal, shift into drive and do a massive burnout. Eventually fried the transmission (THM400). That was fun too. I was 19 years old. Say no more.

 

[toby@eurocompulsion]

wow... I think you're spot on Toby.

This information totally corresponds with what I was feeling.

Thanks for the detailed info Johnny. I think we may have figured out what the issue is.

 

[toby@eurocompulsion]

I used to make my own pops&bangs in my bone stock 1972 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser with the Rocket 350 and the 4 throat carburetor. At speed, cycle the ignition switch to OFF for a few seconds, then turn back to ignition ON. Big pops&bangs! Loved it! Had to replace a few mufflers. Also, I would go WOT in reverse and, without letting up the accelerator pedal, shift into drive and do a massive burnout. Eventually fried the transmission (THM400). That was fun too. I was 19 years old. Say no more.

I wish that was possible with this car (well, I suppose it could be, just not recommended). I can remove the rev limit, speed limit in reverse gear :smile2:

 

[JohnnyTheBeast]

Thanks for the detailed info Johnny. I think we may have figured out what the issue is.

:grin2:

 

[Dorifto]

anyone tried with their full p2 tune left foot breaking while on accelerator ? i just tried mine and it popped me a service throttle message, keep in mind my p2 is little bit different because of the older car software
@toby@eurocompulsion ? when can i expect Pops and bangs ? >

 

[JohnnyTheBeast]

anyone tried with their full p2 tune left foot breaking while on accelerator ? i just tried mine and it popped me a service throttle message, keep in mind my p2 is little bit different because of the older car software

yuppp

I'm not amazing at left foot braking, but I've tried it out a few times with P2 and it worked great.

tbh though, my car never really minded it when stock either... the turbo just wouldn't spool up as quickly before.

 

[Racer Z]

I used to make my own pops&bangs in my bone stock 1972 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser with the Rocket 350 and the 4 throat carburetor. At speed, cycle the ignition switch to OFF for a few seconds, then turn back to ignition ON. Big pops&bangs! Loved it! Had to replace a few mufflers. Also, I would go WOT in reverse and, without letting up the accelerator pedal, shift into drive and do a massive burnout. Eventually fried the transmission (THM400). That was fun too. I was 19 years old. Say no more.

LMAO ROF

Yup! I remember those days. I had a 68 Goat (Pontiac GTO) that never complained about the reverse to drive burnouts and the huge backfires. Maybe I just one short of a total meltdown?

 

[Racer Z]

anyone tried with their full p2 tune left foot breaking while on accelerator ? i just tried mine and it popped me a service throttle message, keep in mind my p2 is little bit different because of the older car software
@toby@eurocompulsion ? when can i expect Pops and bangs ? >

I wanted to while I was at the track, but was to afraid that it would jeopardize the situation. In stock form, my Ti does not like trail braking. Tosses on to many idiot lights, none of which I can turn off.

 

[Racer Z]

Without quoting a lot of large and recent posts, it seems like some of us are doing a good job at beta testing on this new P2 tune. It's wonderful that you guys can remain calm and level-headed while sorting out these issues. I'm sure that Toby appreciates your help and I know the community will benefit from all your patients and hard work.

I think there's quite a few who are waiting to order their new P2 tune, just as soon as the wrinkles are ironed out.

 

[moddeR]

So after 295 miles of dual map bliss, my car lit up like a Christmas tree while driving today. Throttle error and in limp home mode. This is the first time I’ve had any issues since installing the dual map with P&B.

I had wound the car out in 2nd coming into my parking lot and was enjoying a ton of pops & bangs as the RPMs came down. That’s when the errors popped and the car went into limp home mode.

Will advise if the issue is still there when I’m back tomorrow from a business trip.

Ugh [emoji22]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fired up the car today and all the codes/warnings were still there:

Used my OBD reader and OBD Fusion app to clear everything. Car was running strong on the way home but will report if I have any more issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lockem]

Probably a knee jerk reaction to apply the SGW to every vehicle regardless of connectivity.

I don't mind the SGW, the concept is fairly sound. I mind not having the password.

 

[seventy7scorp]

Interested but can't pm yet....4 more posts....ugh...brb

 

[Boo2boy]

I’m having trouble locating the SGW module so I can install the bypass. I don’t really want to try to remove the lower dash panel. I think I might try the double bypass kit that creates a secondary OBD2 port by plugging it directly into the STAR connector panel which I believe is in the trunk. Does anyone know for sure the location of this panel? Also, where is the trunk ground connector for the battery? Any help would be appreciated as if this works those of us with the SGW will have a solution for writing to the ECU.

 

[briangelc]

Toby,
This product line looks great, and thanks for developing these products.
I do have questions about how this works in the real world, not because of your development, but because of mechanical limitations of the Giulia 2.0L Ti, specifically the RWD with NO LSD. If you search my posts, you will find that I lament the inability to turn off Traction Control, and I suspect that without TC the car would burn out just one of the rear tires at hard launch. the dynamic traction control description above is of particular interest to me because it appears to be implying that the TCS will not intervene as often?
It states: "When in Dynamic mode and driving in a spirited part-throttle or wide-open-throttle manner, the TCS system will not interfere or interrupt throttle position, torque request, or other associated requested performance commands." does this include application of brakes to wheels losing traction?
really, what I want to know is:
1) can I accelerate 0-60 without electronic nannies crashing the party?
2) can I go to the track without nannies intervening at every corner?
i am an experience driver, with racing history, and want to turn this electronic garbage off. Also TC makes it impossible to rock the car out of a snowy spot!!

 

[Dorifto]

Toby,
This product line looks great, and thanks for developing these products.
I do have questions about how this works in the real world, not because of your development, but because of mechanical limitations of the Giulia 2.0L Ti, specifically the RWD with NO LSD. If you search my posts, you will find that I lament the inability to turn off Traction Control, and I suspect that without TC the car would burn out just one of the rear tires at hard launch. the dynamic traction control description above is of particular interest to me because it appears to be implying that the TCS will not intervene as often?
It states: "When in Dynamic mode and driving in a spirited part-throttle or wide-open-throttle manner, the TCS system will not interfere or interrupt throttle position, torque request, or other associated requested performance commands." does this include application of brakes to wheels losing traction?
really, what I want to know is:
1) can I accelerate 0-60 without electronic nannies crashing the party?
2) can I go to the track without nannies intervening at every corner?
i am an experience driver, with racing history, and want to turn this electronic garbage off. Also TC makes it impossible to rock the car out of a snowy spot!!

My car is same as yours rwd with open lsd, the nanies with dynamic traction control are less intrusive but still there. If one of the wheel is spinning to fast its still going to kick in and bog the power, but you can do much harder launches now, it does let the wheels spin little bit more

 

[mtb.ck]

Finally, got P2 Installed

Toby supplied me with a sequence of pre-installatiion actions to do in conjunction with the Tune, which I'll let him share (either here or on PMs) should he feel the hocus-pocus might help folks still struggling.

Saturday, I tried to Install P1+P2 with Pops and Bangs and had another fail.
Tonight, following his methods, I successfully installed the non-Pops and Bangs version, and have it running without CEL that plagued my earlier attempts.

Only put about 25 miles on after installation, and I can say that N mode feels just like a fresh Phase 1 N mode, before acclimitization and D mode already feels like a fully tuned P1 D mode. Tested the rev limit increase, but not speed limiter removal, or the Traction Control adjustments. Nice. nice. Nice!

Can't wait to get the next 150 miles out of the way.

Thanks EC for your suggestions. I'm super-happy not to be revving this engine any more. I'll have more to say after a bit. Hoping to try Pops and Bangs after Toby has his fully revised procedure.


Avanti,

:smile2:

 

[Dorifto]

Did a short vid today, you will see some wheel spin thanks to dynamic traction control, and some tiny bit of pops > https://youtu.be/IoGtr4aXd9k

 

[chaadster]

Did a short vid today, you will see some wheel spin thanks to dynamic traction control, and some tiny bit of pops > https://youtu.be/IoGtr4aXd9k

Dope video production! Kudos!