[lost1750GTV]

I kinda get to explore some of the differences, Johnny.
the 08 rwd 328 (230 hp) dtc is now on permanent defeat because I hate what you are experiencing, while the SQ gives me the (way)more hp/more modes/Q4 to compare.

if EC can get this right, not the hp but the mode, swapping a 4 cyl giulia for the bmw would be a distinct possibility. I NEED a magic button, I'm old and can't get used to the car not doing what I tell it to do, always think there's something wrong with it... and there is!

 

[JohnnyTheBeast]

I noticed that the check engine light is flashing before the throttle light comes on in the 2nd video. Is that correct, and is this also the case/same conditions with the first video?

And yes, we have definitely driven the car in the same manner you are in the video (quite a lot actually, Jordan really likes his pops and bangs lol). I wasn't exaggerating when I said this before and during my previous experiment.

I noticed the check engine light too... not sure if that occurs in every case or not.
I generally try to keep my eyes on the road and look out for cops when driving like that.

Not sure if that second part is good or bad news though. :frown2:

 

[JohnnyTheBeast]

I kinda get to explore some of the differences, Johnny.
the 08 rwd 328 (230 hp) dtc is now on permanent defeat because I hate what you are experiencing, while the SQ gives me the (way)more hp/more modes/Q4 to compare.

if EC can get this right, not the hp but the mode, swapping a 4 cyl giulia for the bmw would be a distinct possibility. I NEED a magic button, I'm old and can't get used to the car not doing what I tell it to do, always think there's something wrong with it... and there is!

lol I have no idea what you're saying in that first part.

I couldn't agree more with that second part though.

NEED A MAGIC BUTTON! >

 

[toby@eurocompulsion]

In my BMW tuning days it was pretty common to get misfires post-tune if the car wasn't perfect...we were replacing plugs every 8-10k and any inconsistencies or issues with coils or injectors would also expose themselves with the tune as well. Flashing CEL is misfire indicator so sounds pretty familiar.

My concern is not that the CEL is flashing because of misfire (I've never actually seen our Giulia do this, and I've done some pretty interesting test moves in the past).

My concern is that the CEL is still flashing from the post install process (note that the start/stop is also unavailable, which would not be the case if this were a misfire happening at this exact moment). If this is the case, there are a number of things going wrong here (no phonic wheel sync, ECU's steering position is off, throttle and pedal position are off (which may very well be the cause of this issue), etc.).

 

[JohnnyTheBeast]

@toby@eurocompulsion

Not sure if this piece of information could help find a cause for these issues we're experiencing, but one thing that I and another owner running P&B observed is that the Pops and Bangs get BETTER when the car goes into limp mode.

I have a bunch of sound clips with the car in D and a bunch of it in Limp Mode + N.
The car is obviously much slower to rev, but man does it get angry.

I'll gladly post a little comparison video for you if it could help in any way.

 

[beaups]

My concern is not that the CEL is flashing because of misfire (I've never actually seen our Giulia do this, and I've done some pretty interesting test moves in the past).

My concern is that the CEL is still flashing from the post install process (note that the start/stop is also unavailable, which would not be the case if this were a misfire happening at this exact moment). If this is the case, there are a number of things going wrong here (no phonic wheel sync, ECU's steering position is off, throttle and pedal position are off (which may very well be the cause of this issue), etc.).

Got it, thanks. I hadn't considered there were multiple triggers for flashing CEL here, we didn't have that on BMW.

 

[Alan]

I have the P2 (dual map) and stock exhaust. I went from stock tune to P2 without noticing ANY change in the exhaust note.

I noticed the same slight drop in tone Eagle7 did. My theory is that with the increased torque the Giulia runs at slightly reduced RPMs. So if it’s your commute car the impression is that the tune has deepened the exhaust note just slightly. I may be imagining this but regardless I like like it.

My Giulia is my DD and 99 times out of 100 is used for commute of errands. This tune absolutely makes the Giulia a nicer DD primarily by delivering more torque at daily driving RPMs but Toby and team have also clearly fettled and tweaked a load of other settings to improve the behind the wheel experience even when you’re just rolling around. The Giulia now really does have three distinct drive modes, but even D is still completely useable for a DD.

Toby, no idea what you did to the traction control in D mode but it’s fabulous, just a smidge ‘looser’ as you reach the traction limit in a Q2 without getting scary.

 

[toby@eurocompulsion]

@toby@eurocompulsion

Not sure if this piece of information could help find a cause for these issues we're experiencing, but one thing that I and another owner running P&B observed is that the Pops and Bangs get BETTER when the car goes into limp mode.

I have a bunch of sound clips with the car in D and a bunch of it in Limp Mode + N.
The car is obviously much slower to rev, but man does it get angry.

I'll gladly post a little comparison video for you if it could help in any way.

Unfortunately, that will not be helpful. They get better because you're on lower boost, and the car is putting in more fuel as a precaution of whatever mode it's in.

This issue will not be resolved until you're able to get the file on the car successfully (without any errors pending, stored, or posted).

 

[JohnnyTheBeast]

Unfortunately, that will not be helpful. They get better because you're on lower boost, and the car is putting in more fuel as a precaution of whatever mode it's in.

This issue will not be resolved until you're able to get the file on the car successfully (without any errors pending, stored, or posted).

ahh, I figured there would be some simple answer to that.

"Pending" or "Posted" should be simple, but how should we go about getting the file on the car without any "Stored" errors?

I've done it a dozen times and I'm not really sure that there is anything I could do differently at this point.

 

[JohnnyTheBeast]

Generally, getting it on successfully hasn't proven to be much of a problem for me.
Everything seems to be normal and the rev procedure always goes pretty smoothly.

 

[toby@eurocompulsion]

ahh, I figured there would be some simple answer to that.

"Pending" or "Posted" should be simple, but how should we go about getting the file on the car without any "Stored" errors?

I've done it a dozen times and I'm not really sure that there is anything I could do differently at this point.

For one other person, it seemed to be the case that there were pending errors that had not been posted yet (after doing the rev process). Once those errors came to light, the car experienced issues similar to yours. Only after performing the DEL Errors procedure multiple times were all errors totally eliminated. After this, everything functioned as expected and has continued to do so.

I'm trying to figure out why a few are having this issue with the errors and rev process, but they are connected. I'm fairly confident it is the reason for these random issues (and for some reason a simple code clear with a code reader will not completely fix it). It is connected to the rev process for sure. If I figure out any pointers, I'll let you know.

In the meantime, the only thing I can recommend is to clear all possible errors with a code reader, and then right after perform the DEL errors procedure as many times as necessary using the handheld until everything is cleared. Unfortunately that's the only advice I have on this at the moment, problem being I cannot replicate this to figure out a resolution.

 

[Racer Z]

So quick question for you guys. I'm coming from the VW/Audi world, where you can flash the tune without the rev procedure. If something majorly mechanical went, as happened with a big batch of bad turbos, you could tow it home and flash it, before you took it to the dealer. But with this rev to flash procedure, it sounds like any mechanical failure that prevents you from revving out means you're bringing your tuned car to the dealer. Is this correct?

You can still flash back to OEM. I've done it. You will have every possible CEL (the new idiot light) going, but who cares at this point. You need to be able to turn on the accessory position. I did one of my back to OEM installs with the engine idling. I haven't actually tried doing the flash with engine off. But, engine off should work as the actual write process happens with accessory on, engine off. The rev process is to fix all the errors. Again, if the engine has already grenaded, who cares about the CELs.

 

[Racer Z]

...

Alfa factory warranties are what, two years? At this point, we're two years in and haven't seen any proclivities towards catastrophic mechanical failures (except in GQs getting engines replaced), so probably the odds are in favor that it won't ever come to such a worst case scenario.

In the USA, it's a four year warranty. As mentioned somewhere, you need to accept these possibilities before modding your car. I most definitely don't want to destroy my engine, transmission, or crash my car, ever. But, I mod them and track them anyway, with full knowledge that it's always a possibility.

It cost me $15,000 to fix my month old 4C after stuffing it in a turn on the track. That wasn't what I wanted, but it was one of the many possibilities I accepted before starting the engine.

 

[Dorifto]

This no phonic wheel sync, ECU's steering position is off what does it mean? That steering wheel isnt aligned? Does it have to be like straight while doing rev procedure?

 

[Eagle7]

ahh, I figured there would be some simple answer to that.

"Pending" or "Posted" should be simple, but how should we go about getting the file on the car without any "Stored" errors?

I've done it a dozen times and I'm not really sure that there is anything I could do differently at this point.

Johnny, just a couple of thoughts that ran through my head; if you've done all these already...well ignore this. Have you tried disconnecting the battery, letting the car sit for 10-15 minutes, then reconnect, drive it for 5-10 minutes (you'll have all kinds of lights lit up on the dash), pull over and stop, turn the car off. Wait a minute or two, then restart the car; all the dash lights should now go away. Then you'll need to go through the steering wheel centering routine outlined in the manual (I believe it's turn the wheel all the way to the left, then all the way to the right or something like that). If you haven't done that, you could try it with the car tuned; if that doesn't change anything, reflash it back to stock and try it.

The other thing is, are you pressing the gas pedal all the way to the floor during the rev-up procedure when flashing the tune? Even if it's already at the max revs? I don't know if this matters at all, but when I've been flashing the ECU I press the gas pedal at a moderate speed (not too fast or too slow) then I back it down at almost the exact same speed; I don't just take my foot off the pedal. When you're flashing the ECU, you're not simply installing software. During the write/verify process, the ECU is "reading" the pedal position so maybe a steady press all the way down followed by the same technique back; a steady controlled release back might fix what Toby is describing could be happening with your car. Since you drive your car hard, the ECU needs to read all those pedal positions including pedal-to-the-metal full acceleration. I'm assuming you don't simply take your foot completely off the gas when canyon carving, but modulate the pedal the way anyone who knows what they're doing does.

Just some thoughts in case you overlooked something. I'm waiting for the Remus axle back exhaust I ordered to arrive, then I'll get the P2 so I've been following everyone's experience with it so far in anticipation of any possible issues I might have with the install. Hope you get yours sorted out soon!

 

[Racer Z]

This no phonic wheel sync, ECU's steering position is off what does it mean? That steering wheel isnt aligned? Does it have to be like straight while doing rev procedure?

I've tried talking to my dealer about this several times, but they are always quite vague about it. The entire car is "by-wire", this includes the steering, although that will still function if the by-wire portions fails 100%. After a battery disconnect, it will take 100-200 miles for all the by-wire systems to become fully acclimated, self-adjusted, self-learned, etc... The dealer goes through a process (they won't give me any detail) to quicken the self-learn time. My battery has gone flat several times (sitting just three days) and I've jump-started her, driven her to the dealer without issue. No CEL, no nothing. I never noticed anything being misaligned, but, if you think about it, the car has to be drive-able immediately after a battery disconnect.

 

[JeFizz]

I know this is off topic, but it's a simple question. I've heard a few people in this topic mention their batteries dying... frequently. Is this a common occurrence with the Giulias?

 

[Racer Z]

I know this is off topic, but it's a simple question. I've heard a few people in this topic mention their batteries dying... frequently. Is this a common occurrence with the Giulias?

In order to stay on topic, I'll refer you to a current battery thread. The more direct answer would be, NO, it's not a common thing.

https://www.giuliaforums.com/forum/481-alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio/43166-battery-charging-issue.html

 

[chaadster]

In the USA, it's a four year warranty. As mentioned somewhere, you need to accept these possibilities before modding your car. I most definitely don't want to destroy my engine, transmission, or crash my car, ever. But, I mod them and track them anyway, with full knowledge that it's always a possibility.

It cost me $15,000 to fix my month old 4C after stuffing it in a turn on the track. That wasn't what I wanted, but it was one of the many possibilities I accepted before starting the engine.

Before one can properly accept the possibilites, though, one has to know what the possibilities are, which is why the question of reflashing without a running engine was a good one. Thanks for answering that.

 

[JeFizz]

In order to stay on topic, I'll refer you to a current battery thread. The more direct answer would be, NO, it's not a common thing.

https://www.giuliaforums.com/forum/481-alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio/43166-battery-charging-issue.html

Thanks Racer Z. :wink2:

So back on topic a bit, I'm curious about the later models and the potential that the EC tune won't take due to some software/gateway whatever mumbo jumbo firewall protection. How prevalent are EC tuned 2018+ models here? Toby indicated in an email I had with him that the 2019 model years (US) were supported, but then I see mention from a member or two in this topic that there are issues.