[lockem]

You're driving in the mountains, with a lot of brake use? Yeah, flush and replace the brake fluid. In fact, if you're putting 10k+ miles a year on your car under those conditions, I'd change the fluid once a year. As someone said, it's cheap insurance. It's literally you're life you're protecting.

Yes. However, I am not familiar with what goes wrong with brake fluid other than moisture contamination. Flushing the brake fluid is not without risk, particularly of introducing small amounts of dirt into the system and/or chemical compatibility of the old and new fluids. Unlike engine oil, there is no filter in the brake hydraulic system.

 

[He's Deaf]

Heat roaches the **** out of the seals in the pistons- especially if driven hard. Fresh fluid prevents that and corrosion.

 

[Eagle7]

Heat roaches the **** out of the seals in the pistons- especially if driven hard. Fresh fluid prevents that and corrosion.

^^ This, plus heat weakens the fluid. Heat is the enemy for all things rubber, including brake lines. The problem with these new brake-by-wire systems is we no longer get direct feedback from the brakes themselves. We're getting a report from the computer. Before these systems, you could tell in the brake pedal what was going on in the brakes. Now the computer hides all that and just tells you you're braking.

A good and proper brake flush is sealed; it won't introduce any dirt or contaminants into the system. In fact, on my Camaro, I used to use Super Blue which was actually blue colored, and I would alternate that with their amber colored version when doing a flush. It was easy to see when you had successfully flushed a line because you'd see the color change. I don't think they sell the blue version anymore, but maybe there's something similar that would work. BTW Super Blue was a DOT 4 fluid; Giulias come standard with DOT 4 and should be flushed with nothing less.

 

[Martyn]

Spark Plugs Make and Part Number?

Adding another question - Does anyone know the make and part number for the correct spark plug for the 2.0 engine? It would be interesting to see if these must be sourced through AR, or if they are available from a mainstream spark plug manufacturer (like Bosch, AC Delco, Autolite, NGK, etc...). I have changed my own plugs for years and not about to stop now :grin2:

 

[ChiGuy]

Interestingly, I ran across this YouTube video on a separate thread also discussing expected service costs. According to the guy who does the Ron's Rides videos, the second service cost at his dealership is $350 which I can live with (several filters to replace in addition to the brake fluid and oil service.)
If you look at other videos on Ron's Rides YouTube homepage, you will find a more recent video indicating that the 30k service on the QV is $2,000, because spark plugs and the serpentine belt are replaced. He said he will post later on what the 30K service will cost for standard Giulias.

 

[AlfaCrisis]

Adding another question - Does anyone know the make and part number for the correct spark plug for the 2.0 engine? It would be interesting to see if these must be sourced through AR, or if they are available from a mainstream spark plug manufacturer (like Bosch, AC Delco, Autolite, NGK, etc...). I have changed my own plugs for years and not about to stop now :grin2:

Couldn’t find a proper fitment in NGK, Champion, Bosch or Autolite. Note the plug change is STRICTLY at 30,000 miles, the time passed is irrelevant.

 

[emiliog87]

Buy. With the miles I put on the car I expect that a lease would be extremely expensive.

With a buy i would definitely stay on top on maintenance since its still unknown really the long term reliability of the Giulia and the 50,000 mile limit on powertrain warranty. Since its a buy if it were me id try to get ahold of a service manual and the all the maintenance myself if possible.

 

[robertmee]

Curious what makes the QV service so expensive? I get having to change the serpentine and plugs which are nominal material costs...Is it simply the labor costs? Are the plugs that difficult to get to? I have a lift in my garage and have routinely done my own maintenance including full frame off restorations. Granted I've never done anything near this sophisticated, but is it beyond the ability of a shade tree mechanic/owner?

 

[He's Deaf]

Access to that belt is a mofo. From another thread:

The accessory drive belt service does look complicated.
Here's another one. Valve cover gaskets on the 2.9 Quad.

Since the valve cover incorporates the upper camshaft bearing cap, the pressure on the cam gear must be released before the valve cover can be removed. To do that, you must remove the timing chain cover and remove the timing chain.Since the timing chain is located at the rear of the engine block, you have to remove the engine. Yikes!

OK, I love the Quadrigfoglio, and I bet it runs like a raped ape but that above, is turd-ish. Would I want that in my life without a 2nd car to drive and a warranty?

NOE.

rjp

 

[robertmee]

Access to that belt is a mofo. From another thread:

The accessory drive belt service does look complicated.
Here's another one. Valve cover gaskets on the 2.9 Quad.

Since the valve cover incorporates the upper camshaft bearing cap, the pressure on the cam gear must be released before the valve cover can be removed. To do that, you must remove the timing chain cover and remove the timing chain.Since the timing chain is located at the rear of the engine block, you have to remove the engine. Yikes!

OK, I love the Quadrigfoglio, and I bet it runs like a raped ape but that above, is turd-ish. Would I want that in my life without a 2nd car to drive and a warranty?

NOE.

rjp

Wtf? Remove the engine to open a valve cover? That's crazy talk.

 

[He's Deaf]

Wtf? Remove the engine to open a valve cover? That's crazy talk.

Yep, that's just f**king stupid. I hope someone comes up with a 2 piece valve cover that addresses the problem. There's no way I would own one out of warranty. If this doesn't get a fix these cars will not make it long-term, who will want it with any miles on it?

Also, the timing chain in the back? Look at what happened to the RS6 and RS4- zilch value with higher miles.

125K mile warranty + patience of a monk + a 2nd or 3rd DD here I come.

rjp

 

[He's Deaf]

Any guesses on when we'll see the 1st LS swapped quad??

 

[He's Deaf]

One last thing- the standard 2.0 is very similar to the one used in the upcoming jeeps, which means it will be ghetto-cheap to service, and the serpentine belt on that engine you can grab with your bare hands, right here, right now- it's cake to access.

There you have it. Won't be bad at all for a DIY job. Oil change appears more of a hassle than a belt swap, plug change and filter swap.

 

[1alfa]

Yeah, If you know a little about the history of maintenance on exotic cars, Ferraris, Lamborghinis and Porches an the like, there’s a lot difficulty removing basic peripheral engine parts and sometimes total engine removal to get to belts and filters,etc. These sub hundred grand, 1/2 Ferrari engined Alfa QV’s might be bad ass. But but owning comes with a price. That’s why a two year lease might be the better option for some, or just going for a base Giulia and worrying less about upkeep.

 

[MINIME]

Curious what makes the QV service so expensive? I get having to change the serpentine and plugs which are nominal material costs...Is it simply the labor costs? Are the plugs that difficult to get to? I have a lift in my garage and have routinely done my own maintenance including full frame off restorations. Granted I've never done anything near this sophisticated, but is it beyond the ability of a shade tree mechanic/owner?

I watched the video on the service for the serpentine and spark plugs. The labor is estimated at 8 hours. The $2k still sounds steep at that labor rate but i am not accounting for spark plugs. I live in a desert but the car is 90% in the garage so I doubt we will willingly go for 18k mile more like 30k unless they can show the wear. It shows inspection. Maybe if i was tracking it but i don’t live in sand.

I asked our local dealer directly about the 5 year total maintenance cost BEFORE we bought the QV. After we brought her in to meet her doctors then he said oh i hope you didn’t get CCM brakes. SURE DID. But we knew going in what the maintenance cost and schedule was so no surprise. Hey, you only live once and outside of the CCMs we have the 125k warranty and 8 years so hopefully we just have to pay for the maintenance. I am not sure maintenance on any performance cars are necessarily less expensive so we know. Is this maintenance so outrageous for a QV compared to a comparable car with the same capabilities?

 

[robertmee]

Curious what makes the QV service so expensive? I get having to change the serpentine and plugs which are nominal material costs...Is it simply the labor costs? Are the plugs that difficult to get to? I have a lift in my garage and have routinely done my own maintenance including full frame off restorations. Granted I've never done anything near this sophisticated, but is it beyond the ability of a shade tree mechanic/owner?

I watched the video on the service for the serpentine and spark plugs. The labor is estimated at 8 hours. The $2k still sounds steep at that labor rate but i am not accounting for spark plugs. I live in a desert but the car is 90% in the garage so I doubt we will willingly go for 18k mile more like 30k unless they can show the wear. It shows inspection. Maybe if i was tracking it but i don’t live in sand.

I asked our local dealer directly about the 5 year total maintenance cost BEFORE we bought the QV. After we brought her in to meet her doctors then he said oh i hope you didn’t get CCM brakes. SURE DID. But we knew going in what the maintenance cost and schedule was so no surprise. Hey, you only live once and outside of the CCMs we have the 125k warranty and 8 years so hopefully we just have to pay for the maintenance. I am not sure maintenance on any performance cars are necessarily less expensive so we know. Is this maintenance so outrageous for a QV compared to a comparable car with the same capabilities?

Link to video?

 

[MINIME]

 

[robertmee]

Ah...sorry. I thought there was a video that showed how to do the service.

 

[MINIME]

Ah...sorry. I thought there was a video that showed how to do the service.

Sorry. Just confirming that it is very labor intensive job.

 

[ChiGuy]

Revisiting this thread from earlier in the summer, I took a couple screen shots of the basic 20k and 30k service when I was at my local Alfa/Fiat/Maserati dealer in Naperville, IL. They have an excellent service department and good overall customer service.
20K service on the 2.0L Giulia, which includes a brake fluid exchange is $573. $745 for the Quad.
30K service on the 2.0L Giulia, which includes spark plug replacement is $809. $1,219 for the Quad.

They also offer something called "Gold" service that includes some upcharges for additional additives, etc. You can see the prices for those in the lists above the base service in case you've got additional money you want to burn.