[Chipshot]

Plenty of Alfa hate to tap into: https://www.facebook.com/107118047976/posts/10157664758382977/

 

[ALFATECH]

If my opinion means anything I haven’t seen any cars in yet for stalling, or any damaged cars from stalling and being hit by other cars. We also service FCA executive cars, many of which are Alfas, nothing to report.
As I’ve stated before, really the only issues I’ve seen are battery related, or software related, it’s very rare to see anything else. As well most of the Alfas we service are cars that are sitting on the lot for sale, once they’re sold and get driven we don’t see many issues with them.
And btw, no car company will give you a written guarantee your car won’t stall.
99% of lawsuits are stupid, including this one.

 

[AlfaCrisis]

I didn’t say they have to guarantee that the car won’t stall. I wanted them to guarantee that it didn’t stall for the same reason again. It’s like a kid. You can’t blame em the first time they mess up, but what matter is that they learn from it and don’t let it happen again. Same thing here.

So, you want AR to promise that your modified ECU Giulia won’t stall? Once you reflashed the ECU, your destroyed any hope of blaming AR for this event. Reprogramming the ECU can result in unexpected behavior, as there is no way to validate behavior without programming and development work that far exceeds the abilities of third-party tuners. The lines of programming in today’s vehicles runs in the millions, and in some cases, and tens of millions. Almost any interaction can cause unwanted and undesirable behaviors, as a certain parameter may be monitored for a totally different purpose...and this is impossible to determine without a complete knowledge of the source code.

Now, we have a public forum, where you have admitted to modifying your Giulia’s programming, and no way to retract or hide that data. This will be revealed during discovery, and this “lawsuit” will crash and burn. I suggest you either decide to work with AR in the hopes they will overlook this matter and assist you, or you cut and run now...and don’t forget that AR is actively monitoring this forum.

 

[Chris@Eurocompulsion]

So, you want AR to promise that your modified ECU Giulia won’t stall? Once you reflashed the ECU, your destroyed any hope of blaming AR for this event. Reprogramming the ECU can result in unexpected behavior, as there is no way to validate behavior without programming and development work that far exceeds the abilities of third-party tuners. The lines of programming in today’s vehicles runs in the millions, and in some cases, and tens of millions. Almost any interaction can cause unwanted and undesirable behaviors, as a certain parameter may be monitored for a totally different purpose...and this is impossible to determine without a complete knowledge of the source code.

Now, we have a public forum, where you have admitted to modifying your Giulia’s programming, and no way to retract or hide that data. This will be revealed during discovery, and this “lawsuit” will crash and burn. I suggest you either decide to work with AR in the hopes they will overlook this matter and assist you, or you cut and run now...and don’t forget that AR is actively monitoring this forum.

His car was not tuned, it was a piggyback unit. A unit that plugs into 3 sensors and alters voltage signals. Its not tuning the ECM, in any sense, nor altering any programming.

However if the Piggy back unit fails or the connectors become compromised, the car would absolutely stall.

There have been reports on both sides of cars stalling both in stock form and using piggyback units.

Tuning with a true calibration is far different than simply a plug and play signal interceptor box.

I do not want the two confused as one in the same here.

 

[Eagle7]

This whole deal seems rather odd. He comes on the forum on April 30, 2017 with a long infomercial for Madness Autoworks which is fine and all, and how his Giulia is perfect. Then 3 months later is the "Sad Truth Behind the Beautiful Grill" thread which describes minor issues and the Dateline NBC-like experience with his dealer and what a nightmare it was to deal with them. He blames Alfa for issues that the dealers are supposed to take care of. He doesn't seem to contact Alfa Cares, although they reached out to him on the forum. He doesn't contact the GM or the owner of the dealership, which is something I would have done within the first 2 weeks if I'd had that kind of run-around. Then we hear nothing from him for 90 days until he posts that he's selling a carbon fiber steering wheel. ? What was the follow-up to the nightmare story with the beautifully worded click-bait title?

Then nothing for 7 months until May 11, 2018 when he posts another glowing report about how great Madness Autoworks is and he's just had them install their MAXPower "ECU tune" (which btw isn't actually an ECU tune as Chris from Eurocompulsion points out) on his car. He posts pics of his car at their shop getting the mod added. He raves about the performance of his Giulia. It's also evident in the pics that he's added additional graphics with pin striping to his car, so he's clearly been using it since we had that horror-story post a year earlier.

No follow-up to the horror story post. Normally if someone in here has an issue like that, they post a follow-up to let us know what happened and how or if it was resolved. Apparently it was resolved to his satisfaction, since he clearly had his car back and was adding graphics to it as well as power mods. We don't hear from him again until about a week ago when he posts in a thread started by someone else about their cars stalling. He posts this video of how his car won't start and has this dramatic story of doing 80-85 when the car suddenly shuts down and how terrifying it was, and he was in the left lane trying to go into the right lane and almost gets hit by a semi. His video is supposedly of him trying to start his car after this traumatic experience...yet... the video clearly shows he's in a parking lot somewhere at night. He's not on the highway, he's not on the shoulder of the right lane with semi's going by.

And now suddenly he's a SJW who wants to put together a class-action lawsuit against Alfa Romeo? Even after he posted that mis-leading video, AlfaRomeoCares AGAIN immediately reaches out to him, but he hasn't responded? They reached out only 6 days ago, but he never acknowledges that?

Sorry but I don't buy the phony 'social justice warrior' act. Basically it looks like he thinks he screwed his car up, and now wants Alfa to eat that and just give him a new one. A class action lawsuit isn't going to give him a new car; if successful it will give the lawyers a new car and tarnish the name and reputation of Alfa.

I'm sorry Pradeep, but your story just doesn't hold water. If you've screwed up your car with mods, just man-up and pay to have it corrected. Don't try and transfer your crap to Alfa and the rest of us with your click-bait drama-queen headline titles.

 

[Darkwagoner]

I agree with above, dosnt make sense.. I drive my Alfa as if I stole it.. have 17k miles now since Feb of this year and NO PROBLEMS AT ALL!! I got the updates, the oil changed, even dropped in a performance filter.. I had MORE problems with my S2000 and all of my BMWs.. the first year of ownership.

 

[Kingme]

......I myself drive my Tesla model x, Mercedes slk 350 and many other cars......

With a lineup of cars like this to choose from I wonder why you would bother with a dysfunctional car of any brand. Just cut it loose if you don’t feel safe driving it. You make it seem like you have the resources to be driving something else.

Oh, and $1,200 of hush money is far more money than any member of this class action suit will ever see. Provided it is successful.

What a joke.

 

[MINIME]

With a lineup of cars like this to choose from I wonder why you would bother with a dysfunctional car of any brand. Just cut it loose if you don’t feel safe driving it. You make it seem like you have the resources to be driving something else.

Oh, and $1,200 of hush money is far more money than any member of this class action suit will ever see. Provided it is successful.

What a joke.

Good point Kingme. His stable contains some mighty safe cars. Cars that stop with semi's barreling down, fire balls not sure about the Benz. Apparently likes to live on the edge. Feel bad for the whole thread and the other one with the unlucky lemon QV’s. If both are true, they should contact NTSB or other agency if there was a true safety concern. A Lawsuit is about greed not saving lives they are compensating for damages which so far almost happened are not a lawsuit. Don't forget all the engineering subject matter experts etc. that you are going to have to pay to prove your case. A group of individuals complaining about their word on what "almost" happened is really a tough one to prove I would suspect.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...=tesla+fires&view=detail&mid=52C9613C28D7C874167352C9613C28D7C8741673&FORM=VIRE
https://electrek.co/2017/04/23/tesla-model-x-fire-crash-falcon-wing-doors-stuck/

 

[hypersloth]

me thinks, people in these forums need to act a little more respectful. Nothing hurts worse than when you are reaching out for help which Pradeept is doing, only to have people pile on with negative and sometimes downright rude or mean comments. Some gentle jabbing is always fun amongst friends but just reading half of the comments I wonder if that's how you talk to people in real life, in person...doubt it, at least I hope!

Oh and thanks whoever finally listed out what the issue is. I had to read most of this thread to figure that out. Kinda scary actually that I could be cruising down the highway with my little ones in the back only to have my car come to a sudden stop with pretty much no means to pull over. Even the HINT of that makes me wonder if I should have picked the M3 instead. Love my car, and I mean really love it but geesh this has me worried. I think we shall be rolling in the wife's suv unless we are on back roads with the kids herein until this thing plays out more.

Also please stop with the mod bashing to make a point. Y'all sit and comment on mods and have mods yourself and I myself have a CAI ready to purchase to add more/cooler air to my turbo as that lag is nasty. Fact is, these mods are sold as 'safe' and everyone's talking about them and everyone wants them (or should, ha). I disagree with the one poster that mentioned that you need to know the millions and tens of millions of lines of code to know what you are doing. The reality is the developers don't know all those lines of code. They work in pods of responsibility and many of the lines of code to be honest are static from previous development on previous systems. I could open up the code for a system and if I know what area Im looking for to make adjustments and what that does, and if there is or isn't other code that interacts with this code, and where that is at, then I'm golden.

 

[hypersloth]

Good point Kingme. His stable contains some mighty safe cars. Cars that stop with semi's barreling down, fire balls not sure about the Benz. Apparently likes to live on the edge. Feel bad for the whole thread and the other one with the unlucky lemon QV’s. If both are true, they should contact NTSB or other agency if there was a true safety concern. A Lawsuit is about greed not saving lives they are compensating for damages which so far almost happened are not a lawsuit. Don't forget all the engineering subject matter experts etc. that you are going to have to pay to prove your case. A group of individuals complaining about their word on what "almost" happened is really a tough one to prove I would suspect.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...=tesla+fires&view=detail&mid=52C9613C28D7C874167352C9613C28D7C8741673&FORM=VIRE
https://electrek.co/2017/04/23/tesla-model-x-fire-crash-falcon-wing-doors-stuck/

It's all about BRAND REPUTATION. Money for a large corporation to a set of individuals is easy to part ways with to make the problem go away. If it were that easy today but alas it is not. That brand reputation though, is something that can take years and years to build up, and with a few wildfire social media campaigns can be knocked out in hours. If there is data to back the negative slings toward the brand, then that makes it even worse. So sometimes if the threat is large enough a company will fork out money to hope the issue doesn't fester.
Perception, is reality.

 

[pradeept08]

me thinks, people in these forums need to act a little more respectful. Nothing hurts worse than when you are reaching out for help which Pradeept is doing, only to have people pile on with negative and sometimes downright rude or mean comments. Some gentle jabbing is always fun amongst friends but just reading half of the comments I wonder if that's how you talk to people in real life, in person...doubt it, at least I hope!

Oh and thanks whoever finally listed out what the issue is. I had to read most of this thread to figure that out. Kinda scary actually that I could be cruising down the highway with my little ones in the back only to have my car come to a sudden stop with pretty much no means to pull over. Even the HINT of that makes me wonder if I should have picked the M3 instead. Love my car, and I mean really love it but geesh this has me worried. I think we shall be rolling in the wife's suv unless we are on back roads with the kids herein until this thing plays out more.

Also please stop with the mod bashing to make a point. Y'all sit and comment on mods and have mods yourself and I myself have a CAI ready to purchase to add more/cooler air to my turbo as that lag is nasty. Fact is, these mods are sold as 'safe' and everyone's talking about them and everyone wants them (or should, ha). I disagree with the one poster that mentioned that you need to know the millions and tens of millions of lines of code to know what you are doing. The reality is the developers don't know all those lines of code. They work in pods of responsibility and many of the lines of code to be honest are static from previous development on previous systems. I could open up the code for a system and if I know what area Im looking for to make adjustments and what that does, and if there is or isn't other code that interacts with this code, and where that is at, then I'm golden.

I greatly appreciate the level of maturity that you have shown. As of last night I lost all faith and respect for this forum and it’s members, but thank you for showing me that genuine people are here as well.

 

[Eagle7]

I greatly appreciate the level of maturity that you have shown. As of last night I lost all faith and respect for this forum and it’s members, but thank you for showing me that genuine people are here as well.

Since you said you were planning on selling your potentially lethal car (you were going to tell the buyers the history of it, weren't you?) why don't you do so; sparing yourself the agony of worrying about the dangerous Giulia, and the heartless, evil Alfa Romeo company that spawned it, as well as the horror of the people on this forum.

Oh, and if you decide to try and go ahead with your class action suit, you can be sure the legal department of Alfa will be looking at this forum and the things you've posted; including comments like this:

and don't lecture us on "maturity" just because some of us are skeptical of your story and motives. You've got a long ways to go in that department yourself.

 

[Triumph23]

However if the Piggy back unit fails or the connectors become compromised, the car would absolutely stall.

Just asking for clarification here without going off on a tangent regarding the "will absolutely stall" statement. I am familiar with piggyback units. They range from cheap to well thought out and calibrated items.

If the unit fails or say one of the connectors is compromised, would not it be the same as the factory ECU not get a reading from the relevant/affected sensor which would flag up a CEL and put car into N mode or at worst limp mode? For example the sensors used usually are Manifold Air Pressure, Boost pressure, Exhaust manifold temperature etc. which when fail are unlikely to cause stalling. An engine should/would not stall just because a sensor fails but rather if the combustion fails, hence the repairs all pointing to a failed or faulty fuel pump? The complexity of the Giulia fuel tank system probably adds to the mix as well perhaps!

Isn't stalling usually indicative of either a fuelling issue or vacuum leak?

 

[JohnnyTheBeast]

LOL @pradeept08, where you been for the last year fam?

...chose to dissapear and only come back when you need something?



Look, I honestly don't care if you're trying to scam an auto manufacturer (aka get a new car plus some cash on top), but PLEASE don't be so dramatic about it. Hire a Lemon Law attorney and have them handle the case for you. There's absolutely no need for such a bs lawsuit and all these negative posts.

Alfa Romeo is a great company and they seem to be doing as much as they can to help consumers with any issues they run into. As a part of this effort, they are constantly putting out updates for our cars. You really can't say that they aren't doing anything to, at the very least, try and address these issues.

Please stop being so extra and consider taking down that video you posted. It's not helping your case at all, just adding to this bad image some people are creating that Alfa doesn't deserve.

P.S. Living "150 miles away" from a dealership is in no way a good excuse for missing out on these updates. I understand that it means you're less likely to take your car in for a little check-up than most of us here, but you can't just get an early model of a new car from a company that is pretty much new to the states and expect it to work completely flawlessly from day one, and to add insult to injury, complain that they aren't doing anything about it.

Either your car is a lemon... Or you're a genuine scumbag.

(though I fear it might be, really hope it isn't the latter)


-Johnny

 

[wrgiulia]

Lame

What a joker. Love my Alfa, no issues.

 

[lockem]

Just asking for clarification here without going off on a tangent regarding the "will absolutely stall" statement. I am familiar with piggyback units. They range from cheap to well thought out and calibrated items.

If the unit fails or say one of the connectors is compromised, would not it be the same as the factory ECU not get a reading from the relevant/affected sensor which would flag up a CEL and put car into N mode or at worst limp mode? For example the sensors used usually are Manifold Air Pressure, Boost pressure, Exhaust manifold temperature etc. which when fail are unlikely to cause stalling. An engine should/would not stall just because a sensor fails but rather if the combustion fails, hence the repairs all pointing to a failed or faulty fuel pump? The complexity of the Giulia fuel tank system probably adds to the mix as well perhaps!

Isn't stalling usually indicative of either a fuelling issue or vacuum leak?

With the piggy back you get another connector and another box of electronics to fail.

I had a piggy back in my diesel pick up truck. It made the engine smoke a lot, like "please arrest me for smog violations" a lot. The performance was good but I took it off. On a gas engine a piggy back unit has more potential than a tune to cause expensive long term issues such as catalytic converter failure.

I had a piggy back speedometer correction unit on said truck too. The manufacturer thought it would be good to "pot" the circuit board. When their potting compound shrank it tore components off of the circuit board and of course malfunctioned. What is in your piggy back?

My Protege stalled when the timing belt tensioner chain failed, causing the cam timing to "jump" once in a while. Sensor data indicated that the shafts were not timed properly. Should the ECU have ignored this and still tried to keep the engine running?

Without more information about what caused various Giulias to stall, I think it is difficult to say if the design is good or not. I do agree that if the engine can run the ECU/PCM should not suddenly shut the engine off but I disagree that lack of fuel is the only such condition.

 

[pradeept08]

I have some additional details that I want everyone to know. I have compiled all the service records from the 2 dealerships that I take my car too. I used all theses records to find repeated issues that I have had.

Some commonly repeating issues that I have had include:
The drivers side tweeter speaker which has been replaced 5 times.
The door weather strips that have been replaced 3 times, and it is broken again now.
The entire headlight assemblies that have need replaced 3 times.
The coolant o-ring, which is a recall that has been "fixed" 3 times and is broken again now.

In addition to these commonly repeating issues, there have also been other more significant safety issues including:
The short brake failure followed by the pedal getting really stiff.
The car stalling while being driven.

All in all, after adding up the documentation that I have (which is not all of it), I have realized that the car has been to the dealership 24 times, and the car has spend a total of 58 days at the dealership. The car itself is only about 1 and a half year old (1 Year, 7 Months).

Just to put this into perspective, this means that the car has spent a little over 10% of its life at a dealership. The car spent 1 in every 10 days at a dealership. If we were to divide the number of days of ownership by the number of times that I have had to go to the dealership, it shows that, on average, I have had to go to the dealership about once every 23 days. Thats almost a little more than once a month.

With all this said, I absolutely love this car. Even after experiencing all the issues that I have experienced I am still in love with this car. I am just very fed up with the overall experience that I have had with this particular car. I have plenty of friends who have Giulia's, and haven't had any issues at all. I just don't feel safe in this particular vehicle with the number of issues that it has had, and the close call that I had 2 weeks ago.

 

[pradeept08]

Just asking for clarification here without going off on a tangent regarding the "will absolutely stall" statement. I am familiar with piggyback units. They range from cheap to well thought out and calibrated items.

If the unit fails or say one of the connectors is compromised, would not it be the same as the factory ECU not get a reading from the relevant/affected sensor which would flag up a CEL and put car into N mode or at worst limp mode? For example the sensors used usually are Manifold Air Pressure, Boost pressure, Exhaust manifold temperature etc. which when fail are unlikely to cause stalling. An engine should/would not stall just because a sensor fails but rather if the combustion fails, hence the repairs all pointing to a failed or faulty fuel pump? The complexity of the Giulia fuel tank system probably adds to the mix as well perhaps!

Isn't stalling usually indicative of either a fuelling issue or vacuum leak?

You are absolutely correct. Everyone is claiming that I have a ECU Tune on my car. That is false, I have a ECU piggyback module. They are 2 different things. In addition, I want to add that during the stalling incident, I did not have the module plugged into the car at all. Its was removed almost 3 months prior when the car stalled the first time. I was worried that the module may have been the cause, but it happen again even without it.

 

[MW343]

Pradeep: You can't unwag the dogs tail. It boils down to this:

9-18-2018 sure sounded like you might have been looking for a new car. Sounds like that is exactly what you posted so I guess you do post on a forum like this:

“One of my other friends had the same thing happen to his Giulia, and they kept his car at the dealership for about 1 month and couldn't fix it. They ultimately ended up replacing the entire car with a completely new Giulia. He has put more than 30k miles on the new Giulia and hasn't had any issues since. I hope Alfa Romeo cooperate does the same with my car :smile2:”



Pure and simple. You have no documentation of any stalls and the only thing you have now is a you tube video of the car not starting. Speaker noises, weather stripping (how long in the shop for those things?) You have no documentation on your safety issue. Just your word and assuming the tow truck driver that stated that your car didn't turn over. Good luck. Done with this thread. If I for one second believe this case had any credibility as a Dad of 2 kids under 10 I would not be driving this car. I am not concerned at all. Not for one minute. Your car is close to lemon law limits and you probably have loads of miles maybe not. In any case. Time for a new car and you want Alfa to pay for it.

Sorry if I don't sound like I have sympathy for your claim as the poster stated. Agreeing with you is not maturity. It is merely agreeing with you.

 

[riparke]

"Some commonly repeating issues that I have had include:
The drivers side tweeter speaker which has been replaced 5 times.
The door weather strips that have been replaced 3 times, and it is broken again now.
The entire headlight assemblies that have need replaced 3 times.
The coolant o-ring, which is a recall that has been "fixed" 3 times and is broken again now"


WTF I find it very hard to swallow, everything 3 times? Tweeters blow from amps being driven into overload clipping.
I think I remember one posting about weather stripping and a couple of headlights for water getting in and the O-ring, I would not be going back to dealers that incompetent.