i would like to post here my issues and how i solve it for the records i have a 2017 diesel used and would have many issues which it will come up until my car would turn off it self if i let it just running while for example i pack my bags that the most common that would happen was random check engine lights all those issues were from the red relays that are above the front right wheel i replaced them all since then not much is happening good think i have sοmeone who from the local community who knows alot about the giulias and informed me properly and told me to replace those relays

 

I am about to hit 60k on my 2022 2.0. I drive my car for work and do not want to run into issues while out of town. Should I preemptively replace all of these with panasonic replacements?

 

I took care of the engine cabin and trunk accessible relays myself. While in my for my 30K service, I was already having a tire rotation so had them install the ones behind passenger wheel well while the tire was off and car on a lift. The charge was nominal, $35-40? For my circumstances, $ well spent.

This like the bleeder screws and staying on top of the battery condition just eliminate nuisance CEL or worse the car leaving you stranded. The costs are so minor big picture vs the downside.

 

From the OP diagram, 6 in the front of which 4 are accessible via the passenger (right) wheel well. The other 2 in the front are accessible via the engine cabin and if you go to the 20 minute mark you can see how this is done

lastly there are 5 in the trunk, they are identified here as to what they do. Yes you can use the same replacement relay for all eleven of them. Hold/store the OEM relays, perfectly suitable as backups just in case.

https://www.giuliaforums.com/threads/anyone-have-a-diagram-showing-what-the-relays-in-the-trunk-are-for.62366/?post_id=1055218&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-1055218

 

From the OP diagram, 6 in the front of which 4 are accessible via the passenger (right) wheel well. The other 2 in the front are accessible via the engine cabin and if you go to the 20 minute mark you can see how this is done

lastly there are 5 in the trunk, they are identified here as to what they do. Yes you can use the same replacement relay for all eleven of them. Hold/store the OEM relays, perfectly suitable as backups just in case.

https://www.giuliaforums.com/threads/anyone-have-a-diagram-showing-what-the-relays-in-the-trunk-are-for.62366/?post_id=1055218&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-1055218

Thanks! I really appreciate the summary.

 

Nice thread! Ton of useful info !

 

Just note folks that the order of relays listed here and on youtube (where you can access from top) can vary! This means that the 'play dead' relay is not accessible and you have to jack the car up (not trivial) undo the liner, undo the rack of relays and change it from there because it is at the end of the rack, not at the front as shown in diagrams above! This is what I had to do on my 2017 Veloce anyway and no prob since. I also examined under microscope the old relay and could not find anything visibly wrong with its internal contacts, so they are just unreliable, better change all relays to posher makes.

 

I have replaced all wheel arch relays with new Mopar ones.
Are the ones in the trunk also critical and worth replacing as a precaution?

 

Bonjour à tous je possède une Alfa Romeo Giulia 2 l TB de 2018 mon start and Stop ne fonctionne plus je l'ai emmené plusieurs fois chez le concessionnaire en mettant le diable cela ne ressort aucun défaut la batterie a été changé deux fois alors pareil que certains alphistes je ne me sers jamais du start and Stop mais c'est juste que ce voyant au tableau de bord me gêne est-ce que quelqu'un pourrait m'aider s'il vous plaît

 

Does this sound like a relay issue? Only made this sound once after stopping the engine, but the sound and rhythm were constant Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

I purchased 11 panasonic relays. I guess I will start replacing them next time I lift my car to rotate tires. Hopefully I am not making a mistake as I have not had any issues yet.

 

The source issue as the South Carolina based Alfa dealer in the YT video explained was the exposure to ocean air/mist the relays had while on the boat to the United States, the two ports of entry being Miami for east coast, San Diego for the west coast, a much MUCH longer journey. In Europe if cars are delivered via car carrier or by river and not exposed to ocean air/water this might not be an issue. Australia, South America, Asia, same as the US.

As has been previously state, OEMs are perfect backups, however because of a failure has the ability to strand you the cost risk/reward benefit, <$100 is to get this done. Have you seen the post on how complicated is it to tow (flatbed required) a Giulia when the car won't start? https://www.giuliaforums.com/threads/correct-procedure-for-towing.68693/

 

It took a long time to read and absorb all that great info in this thread. Thanks to everyone for contributing. It would be great to see more "post mortem" analysis on failed relays to see what broke (I think I saw one post that took the relay apart and didn't seen anything unusual).

I'd guess that, since there doesn't seem to be anywhere near the failures reported for the fuel pump relay in the trunk, compared to the starter and intercooler pump relays, that maybe increased exposure to elements of the front relays has something to do with it, or maybe the fuel pump just has lower current draw and doesn't stress the relay as much.

I'm going to proactively replace all 10 or 11 relays. Since a failed relay can leave you stranded, and they are a pain to change, it seems important to try to determine the "best" replacement relay to use.

My "best relay" logic goes as follows so far:

1. Since the upgraded Alfa/Mopar part seems to be NLA and has reverted to the original high failure part, the Alfa/Mopar part doesn't seem to be the way to go.

2. I saw an update post that a newly installed Napa relay failed after about 2 years, so I'm not inclined to use that.

3. I didn't see enough posts about the Bosch to form an opinion.

4. That leaves the GM 96484304the Panasonic CM1A-12V. It seems like more people have used the GM relay and I didn't seen anybody having issues with them. That said, if increased exposure to elements of the front relays is really a factor, then the potting of the Panasonic relays would seem to be an advantage. I did see one post where somebody had an error code using the Panasonic relay, and it went away going back to the Alfa part -- but others didn't seem to have that issue.

Right now, I'm leaning towards the GM, but am hoping others will post what theyve found most relaible since the thread was started in 2022.

Also, there were comments about the Alfa relays having a resister built-in resister that would help the car throw codes for failed relays, but I don't know if that's really a thing (I think the failed Napa relay was still throwing the error code).

 

It took a long time to read and absorb all that great info in this thread. Thanks to everyone for contributing. It would be great to see more "post mortem" analysis on failed relays to see what broke (I think I saw one post that took the relay apart and didn't seen anything unusual).

I'd guess that, since there doesn't seem to be anywhere near the failures reported for the fuel pump relay in the trunk, compared to the starter and intercooler pump relays, that maybe increased exposure to elements of the front relays has something to do with it, or maybe the fuel pump just has lower current draw and doesn't stress the relay as much.

I'm going to proactively replace all 10 or 11 relays. Since a failed relay can leave you stranded, and they are a pain to change, it seems important to try to determine the "best" replacement relay to use.

My "best relay" logic goes as follows so far:

1. Since the upgraded Alfa/Mopar part seems to be NLA and has reverted to the original high failure part, the Alfa/Mopar part doesn't seem to be the way to go.

2. I saw an update post that a newly installed Napa relay failed after about 2 years, so I'm not inclined to use that.

3. I didn't see enough posts about the Bosch to form an opinion.

4. That leaves the GM 96484304the Panasonic CM1A-12V. It seems like more people have used the GM relay and I didn't seen anybody having issues with them. That said, if increased exposure to elements of the front relays is really a factor, then the potting of the Panasonic relays would seem to be an advantage. I did see one post where somebody had an error code using the Panasonic relay, and it went away going back to the Alfa part -- but others didn't seem to have that issue.

Right now, I'm leaning towards the GM, but am hoping others will post what theyve found most relaible since the thread was started in 2022.

Also, there were comments about the Alfa relays having a resister built-in resister that would help the car throw codes for failed relays, but I don't know if that's really a thing (I think the failed Napa relay was still throwing the error code).

I have successfully used Panasonic CM1A-R-12V (which should include the resistor) and have had no issues so far. I guess you could compare the specs with CM1A-12V, but I read somewhere that the resistor might be important to ensure better compatibility, as you mentioned.

 

So I ordered 11 of the CM1A-12V resistors and they were the wrong part?

 

Those are exactly what I ordered and have used for at least a couple of years now. Now worries.

 

Hey guys, getting some issues with code ECM 2510- tied to the ECM. Any idea where this relay is? I’ve replaced the starter relay. Thanks

 

Hi. If you go back in the thread there's good details regarding the positions but also keep in mind the actual positions of the relays on the bank may differ on your car so it's good to identify them via their respective cable colors.
Easiest way is to replace all of them when you go through the trouble of getting there anyways. Especially as they cost a few bucks a piece.

 

Thank you bro! So yesterday I switched out two. The ones closer to the engine from the top of the vehicle. The ones accessible from the top. I placed the car on the battery tender and this morning. It started without issue. No codes. I really hope I got them? Haha. I tested both relays and they were good.

 

When my starter relay failed and I replaced it with the GM relay from Rock, the crappy VARTA had been replaced with a MOPAR EFB for about a year or two. With the new relays, it cranked over and started noticeably quicker, after pushing the button. I also found, if you push the button with foot OFF the brake, to just turn on the IP and ignition (like to check the oil level between the tach and speedo) and then try to start, it REALLY cranks over more immediately.

 

When you push the start button with your foot on the brake, the car takes a moment to power up all the electronics, then sends power to the starter. This is by design. You accomplish the same with your two step approach, but you‘ve wasted effort by pushing the button 2x. This will clearly leave you too exhausted to push the auto start/stop to disable.

 

So perhaps it’s the battery itself then? It’s now working fine after relay switch but maybe it’s a stop gap?

 

Yep, after I replaced the OE battery with the AGM over a year ago, it was random issues after it slowly discharged below the 65% state of charge threshold. I installed a new EFB a couple weeks ago now, and it's been at 93% SoC ever since. Most of the time I check it's 98%. Car is running perfect now. I feels new. No more stumbly idle on cold starts.
No more multiair solenoid error codes

I've been on a road trip from MN to CO, then to Wyoming, Montana, South Dakota, and back to MN tomorrow. 900 to 11000 foot elevation changes. Perfection.

She's been flawless. I'm ecstatic.

 

EFBs rule!

 

The main issue with EFB is that they are usually sealed so that you cannot replace the water that vented out that vent pipe as hydrogen. AGM has slightly different (higher?) voltages, while AG has significantly higher voltages especially when cranking. The latter means that the battery charging system gets fooled into thinking that the battery has more charge than it actually does. Curiously, the AG battery charging voltage is lower than for lead based batteries.

Too bad nobody has (so far) figured out how to modify the battery charging algorithm.

 

Too bad nobody has (so far) figured out how to modify the battery charging algorithm.

Why not? Look at this https://www.giuliaforums.com/thread...ms.com/threads/new-battery-on-brand-new-car.60607/?post_id=1028516#post-1028516 this https://www.giuliaforums.com/threads/what-are-proxi-parameters-for-agm-battery-on-giulia-2-2.65519/ but not all experiences are positive

 

AI is not a smart guy

 

Al is so wrong with so many automotive questions. Worse than so many of the keyboard warriors here!

 

Is it an Alfa time bomb or just the universe being a dick that’s behind 4 people currently reading this aged thread?!

Our ‘17 failed to start yesterday. Found this thread. Just airmailed 6 of the Panasonic relays to myself. Hoping it works.

Thanks to all that have contributed to these gorgeous 11 pages over the past 3 years.

 

In theory you can take one of your existing OEM relays out of the trunk as I believe those are all for non "starting" things like rear defroster. The starter relay (R2A) is accessible via the engine compartment if you refer to the multiple diagrams/pics on page 1, or the one I copied below. For a video visual this YT shows the relay swap

 

Fantastic. Thank you for that information. I suppose I could have saved a little on the shipping.

 

That's a temp fix to get you driving again. That said for the cost, this should be done preventatively to simply not get stranded and or a non-start. Hold your OEM ones as back-ups. If doing the wheel well ones is too much of a DIY hassle, I had mine put in during my 30K service while my tire was off for a rotation, I think I was charged an additional $40.

 

My issue is actually intermittent. Occurred for the first time last night while we were out for dinner. On maybe the 20th attempt, after having locked/unlocked, etc. numerous times, it started & we made it home. It didn’t start for my wife this morning but did when I tried couple hours later.
When it doesn’t work it’s as discussed here: dash lights up but no starter motor. Only adverse telltale was blinking TPS indicator. So I won’t immediately know if a new relay was the fix. Just thoughts ‘n’ prayers.

 

@Jase17Ti , same symptoms for many. Intermittent no crank. Keep trying, it will work. New relays (I used the GM ones from Rock) will make it 100%.

 

6 new relays arrived yesterday. Installed today and everything appears to work as it should 😁.
Based on others’ replies I reserved some hope it may resolve my stumble/hesitanty pull off symptom but that persists (dealer thinks it may be the torque converter but that’s for a separate thread).

The relay switch out was pleasantly simple. Most complex thing was getting trolley jack under the car. But with passenger wheel off the liner was removed easily and the 3 relay boxes simple to drop from their frame and open.

Old ones are red and new Panasonic ones are black.

 

Relay swap and coolant bleeder screw replacement are two key DIY preventative things you do to make your Alfa driving experience a joy. 😁

 

I've been experiencing starting issues with my 2017 Giulia Veloce (UK Spec) for quite a while and replaced what I believed to be the starter relay some time ago but it didn't seem to make a difference. Starting is fairly reliable in the summer, but now the weather is cooling again the problem is back (BTW - I have changed the battery and IBS sensor). So I'm questioning whether I replaced the right relay which has led me to this thread.

The thing that is puzzling me is that I don't seem to have a relay in the rightmost slot (R2A in the diagram). I've currently only removed one of the relay covers as this is the one I can reach without disassembling the wheel arch and there's only one relay in there. I'm thinking of replacing all the relays, but before I order the parts and take everything apart I'm just wondering if there are alternate designs and if anyone else has empty slots in these relay holders?