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Replacing or Upgrading HK Subwoofer

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#61 ·
mikkelsj said:
To those who might not have seen on the "European" Giulia site (http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-giulia/), I have been upgrading the sound system to very satisfying results, without changing the speakers.
It's all about EQ and filters, that I have been using Audison amps and DSP's to accomplish - all without removing the in-built amp or other non-reversible changes.
The amp used is the Audison AP8.9 bit for all speakers except sub, where i use an Audison AP1D - both are ~500W with plenty of headroom.

The sound has gotten from a very high bass peak around 100hz and brittle treble reproduction, to very enjoyable and balanced across all frequencies.
So that standard speakers (I don't even have the HK option) are very capable of giving good results - just needs the right push :)

Check out the complete post with details here:
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-giulia/1128906-11-speaker-audio-upgrade.html#post16846290
Click to expand...
True. DSP can do amazing things. Question is how do you implement it into the system. The upgrade you made was not done with the upgraded system, right? Imcan't visual the stock system. I'm guess it runs off one amplifier and you hooked up this amp basically off the speaker leads?

Another way to achieve this (though not to the same degree) is to equalize the source. In home systems that can be accomplished through Roon for one thing. If your phone is your source for music, much of this can be manipulated. My Galaxy S8 has an EQ and what hthey call an "upscaler"...even a tube amp sound setting. I don't know if those settings work when you are playing Tidal or Pandora through your car when it's plugged in.

That's the cheapest way to get some help.
 
#62 ·
pcoates@drcoates.net said:
There are 3 good 10 inch options from JL Audio. You have just under 14 inch clearance under back deck in trunk. Width is limited because of curves on the sides to around 25inches

1. C210LG-TW1 Fits nicely under deck filling the entire area. 22x11.75x7.3 Only comes out a little less then an inch past the deck. Looks good with two large JL TW1 subs. Best for those who want a lot of base and listen to mainly rap music. Two TW1's should really shake a little car like the Giulia. Most expensive option but still much cheaper than custom built box and will look almost like it was made for your car. Very close to custom fit when sitting in the car.
http://www.jlaudio.com/cs210lg-tw1-car-audio-power-wedge-subwoofer-systems-93316

2. CS110LG-TW1-2 Single 10 inch sub in 15x11.75x5.5 so fills a little over half of the space. Plenty of space to put almost any amp next to sub. Cheapest option also
http://www.jlaudio.com/cs110lg-tw1-4-car-audio-power-wedge-subwoofer-systems-93324

3. CS110TG=TW3 19x12.375 wedge shape with 4.1 inches on top and 6.25 inches on bottom. Uses better sub fits in area really nice tucked in behind seat. Can turn around and wedge fits right up against seat using even less trunk space but you lose view of driver when you open the trunk.
http://www.jlaudio.com/cs110tg-tw3-car-audio-powerwedge-subwoofer-systems-93302

As for amplifier's there are tons of options. I would look for one with auto-sensing turn on though so you don't have to look for a amp turn signal. Many small and very powerful clean amps available today at a reasonable price point.

I recently chose option 3 with a JL Audio 500/1 amp to fit in the trunk under the Styrofoam on the drivers side. Having it installed on Monday so will let you know now it sounds and fits. Should have taken pictures of the 3 options today when I sat them in car but wasn't thinking about it. We placed each one in the car. Option 1 looked cool but I really thought that it was going to be too much bass for me. I mainly listen to classic rock, contemporary, metal, and jazz music. Not much rap and would prefer the cleaner tighter bass from a TW3 then more power from two TW1's. But that is just personal preference.

Tried a few of the ported subs but none of the 10 inch ones really fit well. They are right at 14 inches tall and would not slide under the deck. Ported subs have louder sound, boomier bass and really hit on certain frequencies. Usually they are louder then sealed cabinets which have tighter and cleaner bass but not quit as powerful of a sound. I prefer the sealed cabinets but most salesman will push you towards the ported cabinets for the louder sound.
Click to expand...

I'm going to follow your lead, but curious about option 1. I would like to have the sub be removable and you said it fills up the space nicely. Do you think it would come out easily if needed? I don't need much so maybe using the same one you chose would work.

Also wanted to know about the level control you put up front. How much work was it to fish that line up there?

Thanks!
 
#63 ·
Kevin Deal said:
True. DSP can do amazing things. Question is how do you implement it into the system. The upgrade you made was not done with the upgraded system, right? Imcan't visual the stock system. I'm guess it runs off one amplifier and you hooked up this amp basically off the speaker leads?

Another way to achieve this (though not to the same degree) is to equalize the source. In home systems that can be accomplished through Roon for one thing. If your phone is your source for music, much of this can be manipulated. My Galaxy S8 has an EQ and what hthey call an "upscaler"...even a tube amp sound setting. I don't know if those settings work when you are playing Tidal or Pandora through your car when it's plugged in.

That's the cheapest way to get some help.
Click to expand...
The details are in the post i linked to, but yes - it is implemented using the speaker-outs from the factory amp using high-level inputs on the Audison amps and then onto the speakers from there.
Reason being that the factory amp has protective circuits that communicates with the car infotainment system (using CANBUS), and reports on possible issues with power overload, speaker connections, fuses etc.
If one was to connect on the source, this signal would have to be simulated in order to "fool" the car into thinking it still had the factory amp running.
Even connecting the Audison amp on the high-level inputs required a set of resistors to simulate speaker impedance for the factory amp, otherwise an error was shown in the infotainment system - nothing serious though, and still functional.

EQ on the source is not ideal, as the individual speakers behave very differently. Only the sub has the pronouced hump at 100hz, while the front/rear woofers having it to a much lesser degree.
The Audison does have a de-EQ feature that aligns on the infotainment-end/source signal, but the issue seems to be the factory EQ settings on the amp side.

In-car room correction is a science in itself, my next step is to have the entire system tuned using the Audison Bit Tune system which incorporates 6 microphones around the car, +10000USD worth of calibration equipment and about 10 hours of work from a certified technician.

But obviously, less complex solutions might be just the ticket for other peoples needs :)
For me it was about confirming that the speakers (and car acoustics to a lesser degree) was not to fault - and finding a solution that can reversed.
 
#64 ·
Kevin it is very removable two wires a red and black clip then sub lifts right out. You will need a way to equalize the bass as the volume increases, I used an audiocontrol LC2i initially and it worked amazingly well. The accubass is absolutely amazing and will rock your car. I have pictures of the install in previous posts you will see the amp is hidden and the sub is removable in less than 10 seconds. I mounted the LC2i in the battery compartement above the battery.
 
#66 ·
mikkelsj

Did the resistors work to fool the headunit and if so what size did you use audiocontrol recommended installing a 37-50 ohm 5-10w resistor per speaker across the +/- after the factory amplifier and prior to the processor. I might try this as the speaker warning light is a little annoying even though everything functions normally.
 
#67 ·
pcoates@drcoates.net said:
mikkelsj

Did the resistors work to fool the headunit and if so what size did you use audiocontrol recommended installing a 37-50 ohm 5-10w resistor per speaker across the +/- after the factory amplifier and prior to the processor. I might try this as the speaker warning light is a little annoying even though everything functions normally.
Click to expand...
It is all in the post on Alfaowner.com :)

But they are (according to the technician) 2ohm, 35w resistors. I have no info on make or model.
It does mean that the parking sensors and other warnings now come from the infotainment system, and not the little speaker under the dash.
 
#69 ·
pcoates@drcoates.net said:
Actually I kinda like the warnings coming from the little speaker because before they were too loud and muted the radio which was annoying. That is the best benefit so far of having the speaker warning light on.
Click to expand...


Too bad that’s not an option in infotainment. I’d also prefer warnings to not come through all speakers and muting the radio.
 
#70 ·
pcoates@drcoates.net said:
Kevin it is very removable two wires a red and black clip then sub lifts right out. You will need a way to equalize the bass as the volume increases, I used an audiocontrol LC2i initially and it worked amazingly well. The accubass is absolutely amazing and will rock your car. I have pictures of the install in previous posts you will see the amp is hidden and the sub is removable in less than 10 seconds. I mounted the LC2i in the battery compartement above the battery.
Click to expand...
I thought the amp that you bought had a low-pass crossover built in and speaker level input. Not true? That would make it simple.
 
#71 ·
Yes the amp does have a crossover built in and can be used without the LC2i but it is worth having for accubass to boost the bass as the volume is increased. You can always try it without it and see how it sounds. If bass is great to you at all volumes you are in good shape. If bass sounds great at low volumes but decreases as you increase volume then you will need it to adjust for the stock amp/head unit trimming down bass to the speakers as volume increases. Watch these videos and it will explain what I am talking about.

 
#76 ·
I am very interested in JUST replacing the rear deck sub and adding an amp (for the sub).
Please post info as you find it.
Thanks,
 
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#77 · (Edited)
Factory HK Sub comes out really easy.

Pop down the back seat, there are 5 push rivets, pop them out,pull off plastic panel, then unscrew the torx head fasteners holding the package tray down, and pull up and forward on the package tray.

Sub is bolted in from the top, and the wires going to it are on the side facing the rear window. violet, and violet and black.

More in the AM. I'm probably gonna pull the sub for venting, and install a 12" and a small D class amp. easy.
 
#78 ·
1) it is the violet and violet / black wire back there.

2)- cutting it triggers the speaker out warning. that sucks.

Plan now is to install a sub using a resistor across the terminals to simulate a speaker and go high-low level converter. or, just plug into the sub while it still works and go directly into high level in.
 

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