[Saxman]

I would be pretty surprised if you dont trip an engine light

I'm not sure if that's directed at Callisto or me but I've already put 150 miles on the car and no cel on this end.

 

[Crosshairs]

I'm not sure if that's directed at Callisto or me but I've already put 150 miles on the car and no cel on this end.

Good to hear... these cars are very sensitive to any leaks whether on the vacuum or pressure side so I wasn't quite sure how this would work out.

There was some discussion on this forum a few months back about adapting the Jeep kit to the Alfa and I planned on buying one and trying it but I never did .

 

[Saxman]

Are you still mad that I disagreed with your opinion about Costco fuel
grow up ....

It has nothing to do with metered air or fuel trims. The crank vapors are treated as harmful emissions by the EPA . Turbo vehicles have the ability to push those vapors out into the atmosphere when under boost so the crankcase must be monitored for leaks.
There is a pressure sensor that monitors crank pressure and it will set a code if it does not like what it sees.
So call me all the names you want, but I work on these systems for a living and most modifications cause engine lights...not all, but most..and I know this from experience.

You definitely have a point on CCP but I've known Matt for over 10 years and had a multi can setup on one car and a single can on the car before which were DM CCs. This man knows what he is doing and I'm not even worried.

Last night I ran my girl hard... dynamic, natural and even AEM or eco. Highway speeds from natural to 3 digit figures over and over. I tossed it around with a GTR and laughed as a 4th gen Camaro tried to keep up. All of course on Mexico roads but I will say if there was going to be any CCP loss I definitely would have forced it last night. I'm over 250 miles with the can installed and everything is going as it should.

Matt has an opinion the 2.0 may need 2 cans since we found a fair amount of oil in the hose feeding back to the intake but he's going to order the FCA stock hose to make the quick release setup just like stock for that side. Connectors on that hose are a little bigger than the hose going from the PCV to the manifold. Once he's got that in house I'll be headed back. Hell if I could find a mech lsd I'd be going back to Matt for that install as well but that's a whole different topic.

 

[steve6225]

My two cents... I put a Eurocompulsion catch can in my Abarth 124. I rarely if ever got anything out of it. I recently installed hood lifts, so I needed to relocate the catch can. After taking it apart, I found that the inlet and outlet hoses were coated with oil, but the catch can was empty. It really wasn't doing anything at all. I removed it completely and put the 124 back to stock. I will not be installing a catch can on the Giulia.

 

[Crosshairs]

You definitely have a point on CCP but I've known Matt for over 10 years and had a multi can setup on one car and a single can on the car before which were DM CCs. This man knows what he is doing and I'm not even worried.

Last night I ran my girl hard... dynamic, natural and even AEM or eco. Highway speeds from natural to 3 digit figures over and over. I tossed it around with a GTR and laughed as a 4th gen Camaro tried to keep up. All of course on Mexico roads but I will say if there was going to be any CCP loss I definitely would have forced it last night. I'm over 250 miles with the can installed and everything is going as it should.

Matt has an opinion the 2.0 may need 2 cans since we found a fair amount of oil in the hose feeding back to the intake but he's going to order the FCA stock hose to make the quick release setup just like stock for that side. Connectors on that hose are a little bigger than the hose going from the PCV to the manifold. Once he's got that in house I'll be headed back.

Excellent..Tell Matt
I'm a customer when it's ready for sale...provided he can ship it to me....😁

 

[Saxman]

Excellent..Tell Matt
I'm a customer when it's ready for sale...provided he can ship it to me....😁

Matt can ship everywherez. 😉

 

[Callisto]

Are you still mad that I disagreed with your opinion about Costco fuel
grow up ....

It has nothing to do with metered air or fuel trims. The crank vapors are treated as harmful emissions by the EPA . Turbo vehicles have the ability to push those vapors out into the atmosphere when under boost so the crankcase must be monitored for leaks.
There is a pressure sensor that monitors crank pressure and it will set a code if it does not like what it sees.
So call me all the names you want, but I work on these systems for a living and most modifications cause engine lights...not all, but most..and I know this from experience.

I don’t know much nor everything at all, always more to learn but,
Haha how can turbo pressure push vapors to atoms? PCV shuts down the ccv when under boost.
It has EVERYTHING to do with fuel trim and metered and/or lost air Geeze!!
All air is metered and accounted for and returns to intake.
ALL air for engine and crank case is measured by the MAS. If you vent some of it, the ecm might have a problem.. There’s a variance allowed. I figure all air back to intake provided it’s been treated.
I’ve done this before on my turbo BMW of the ‘80’s, several moded street cars...my race car.,
I had issues for fuel trim on my race car as the ECM was really sensitive.
but figured it out..results were.no codes...no issues...running around Sonoma and Laguna Seca
.How can a turbo push vapors into atmosphere short of a leak? I’m sure you know all of this but for those reading
There should always be slight vacuum on the cc and clean side of pcv and under full throttle the vent side should go no higher than 2 inches of water column. If the engine is healthy, then thats easy to achieve. If not then add more vacuum to pull side of the cans.
FYI worked in the auto service industry in several capacities for over 40 years. Machinst for BMW Porsche and MBZ, fabricator, service advisor & manager and shop manager mostly European.
Been around the block numerous times.
I tried Costco gas in my race car and the ignition timing was forced to back out and I could detect slight pining. I would watch it on my laptop, log it and send it back to the tuner. Costco gas sucks...period
Don’t need LSPI event although oil plays a big part in that phenomena: no thanks. Chevron and shell were good. Costco not. I’ve never seen Costco gas at any racetrack
I love the notion of collaboration and learning/teaching. But when some has nothing insightful, helpful or revealing then......Called u name...well....What’s in a name?Perhaps it‘s indicative of an attitude.

 

[Callisto]

My two cents... I put a Eurocompulsion catch can in my Abarth 124. I rarely if ever got anything out of it. I recently installed hood lifts, so I needed to relocate the catch can. After taking it apart, I found that the inlet and outlet hoses were coated with oil, but the catch can was empty. It really wasn't doing anything at all. I removed it completely and put the 124 back to stock. I will not be installing a catch can on the Giulia.

If you had long feed tubes of the cc then that’s a good thing because as the hot vapors cool and in doing so, the oil looses its suspension then attaches to the tubes. These are not catch cans. The ides is to separate. If the engine is healthy, then one shouldn’t have any real accumulation of oil or moistures..The oil has been mitigated allowing fresher air to enter intake and not facilitate the build up of carbon.

 

[Saxman]

If you had long feed tubes of the cc then that’s a good thing because as the hot vapors cool and in doing so, the oil looses its suspension then attaches to the tubes. These are not catch cans. The ides is to separate. If the engine is healthy, then one shouldn’t have any real accumulation of oil or moistures..The oil has been mitigated allowing fresher air to enter intake and not facilitate the build up of carbon.

This is why the DM setup on my car is mounted near the IM, to trap the oil that actually making it's way into the Mani. If there is nothing in the can after a couple thousand miles then it'll prove the PCV system is doing it's job as intended. Buuut based off what I saw in the stock hose from the Mani, I'm going to place a small wager there will be a oil/gas mixture in the can by the next oil change.

 

[Callisto]

This is why the DM setup on my car is mounted near the IM, to trap the oil that actually making it's way into the Mani. If there is nothing in the can after a couple thousand miles then it'll prove the PCV system is doing it's job as intended. Buuut based off what I saw in the stock hose from the Mani, I'm going to place a small wager there will be a oil/gas mixture in the can by the next oil change.

Nice straightforward set up but only addresses one one side of the ccv system. The pvc side only vents oil at Idle and very light throttle. The second you have any boost this side shuts down 100%
Also, unless a check valve is utilized between intake and can, then the can is also pressurized which is not great as that might froth things up inside the can and then when off boost and the pcv opens and will now suck oily gasses, granted through the separator into the IM. Is there a check valve between intake and can?
if not you should install one as it takes strain off the factory pcv valve which can and do fail and lead to loss of boost.

One must address the ccv side as most oil enters the intake here Under boost, this side stops sucking air and oil vapors into the cc in and now vents hard. The inlet on the intake tube draws this vented gasses into the intake via turbo across map and iat sensors too. My system draws filtered air from catch cans during boost on this side..

With my set up, I blocked off the intake completely. I might use it to add additional vacuum if needed after testing.
The pvc side is now allowed to vent under boost unlike w factory set up where its completely closed.
with my set up, This pvc side has vacuum supplied always, even under boost.
BTW., with my system...the ccv side can both vent and draw air depending on the pressures inside the crankcase. All the air leading in is always filtered and not directLH fed oily crap like factory.
As for what these separators actually do....since the system is closed and all air with suspended oil stays in the closed loop, the oil separators are just diluting and controlling and limiting the air / oil %
Much of the separation occurs in the lines for as the vapors cool and oil and air separate the oil is no longer suspended and sticks to the lines..That’s why use see oil amassing in the lines. The separators facilitate this more.
in reality, the longer the lines the more separation.
Bottom line is the air is filtered as the oil collects and amasses but the whole rationale is to limit and control the saturation levels so that theres less chance of oil/carbon build up..I’m intrigued by the guy here who pulled the heads(was it a QV as he stated heads?) Ive heard about those motors having severe carbon issues to the point of replacing engines!! Would love to take apart one and see what exactly is causing the failures. As Alfa added port injection to new models, seems like they are revealing the issue but why not improve the ccv and pcv systems to address it?

 

[Saxman]

Nice straightforward set up but only addresses one one side of the ccv system. The pvc side only vents oil at Idle and very light throttle. The second you have any boost this side shuts down 100%
Also, unless a check valve is utilized between intake and can, then the can is also pressurized which is not great as that might froth things up inside the can and then when off boost and the pcv opens and will now suck oily gasses, granted through the separator into the IM. Is there a check valve between intake and can?
if not you should install one as it takes strain off the factory pcv valve which can and do fail and lead to loss of boost.

One must address the ccv side as most oil enters the intake here Under boost, this side stops sucking air and oil vapors into the cc in and now vents hard. The inlet on the intake tube draws this vented gasses into the intake via turbo across map and iat sensors too. My system draws filtered air from catch cans during boost on this side..

With my set up, The pvc side is now allowed to vent under boost unlike w factory set up where its completely closed.
with my set up, This pvc side has vacuum supplied under always, even under boost.
BTW., with my system...the ccv side can both vent and draw air depending on the pressures inside the crankcase. All the air leading in is always filtered and not direct oily crap like factory.
As for what these separators actually do....since the system is closed and all air with suspended oil stays in the closed loop, the oil separators are just diluting and controlling and limiting the air / oil %
Much of the separation occurs in the lines for as the vapors cool and oil and air separate the oil is no longer suspended and sticks to the lines..That’s why use see oil amassing in the lines. The separators facilitate this more.
in reality, the longer the lines the more separation.
Bottom line is the air is filtered as the oil collects and amasses but the whole rationale is to limit and control the saturation levels so that theres less chance of oil/carbon build up..I’m intrigued by the guy here who pulled the heads(was it a QV as he stated heads?) Ive heard about those motors having severe carbon issues to the point of replacing engines!! Would love to take apart one and see what exactly is causing the failures. As Alfa added port injection to new models, seems like they are revealing the issue but why not improve the ccv and pcv systems to address it?

I'm going off of my past dual can setup with this statement but I'm going to say the second can on the CCV will have a check valve and probably vta. After talking with him yesterday (and getting his hands dirty) he determined there wasn't a need for a CV on the PCV side.

Matt is willing to look at the QV as well but he needs one in house to see if it's worth the cost and effort for QV owners to install.

 

[Callisto]

I'm going off of my past dual can setup with this statement but I'm going to say the second can on the CCV will have a check valve and probably vta. After talking with him yesterday (and getting his hands dirty) he determined there wasn't a need for a CV on the PCV side.

Matt is willing to look at the QV as well but he needs one in house to see if it's worth the cost and effort for QV owners to install.

Well your can is on the pcv side. The other side contributes most if not all of the oily vapors when under any boost. The pvc side operational at idle and cruise only when cc gas production at a minimum.

 

[Saxman]

Well your can is on the pcv side. The other side contributes most if not all of the oily vapors when under any boost. The pvc side operational at idle and cruise only when cc gas production at a minimum.

Yes and like you mentioned the second can was vented on my previous car. To stop the dipstick from dancing under high boost. 😜

That is why my guess would be the second can on the CCV side will have the CV and vta for the 2.0s.

I've passed the 500 mile point with it installed and not a worry of CCP loss or a cel being thrown.

For reference... This car is stock other than the CC.

 

[Callisto]

Yes and like you mentioned the second can was vented on my previous car. To stop the dipstick from dancing under high boost. 😜

That is why my guess would be the second can on the CCV side will have the CV and vta for the 2.0s.

I've passed the 500 mile point with it installed and not a worry of CCP loss or a cel being thrown.

View attachment 111010

For reference... This car is stock other than the CC.

 

[Crosshairs]

This is a 2021 Jeep 2.0 valve cover...The two orange dots in the picture are the umbrella valves, or check valves if you will.
This is where the fresh air enters the engine and seals when under pressure to keep it from escaping.

This was in for an unrelated repair but I figured I would snap a pic while I had if off.

 

[Callisto]

Ok, Thanks for sharing crosshairs. Nice to see!!
I want to say this best and nice as possible and not cross paths.
If those are the check / pcv valves then their sole capability is to VENT cc vapors only. They are only open when there is vacuum supplied by the intake manifold. The second turbo builds boost, these valve are shut down 100% hopefully so they don’t leak boost. They never draw in fresh air ever!! They cannot as they are a 1 way valve.
It’s either suction closed throttle or idles, no boost venting into intake or completely closed under boost. It never ever draws in air!! Period!!
Go ahead and bend over and suck and blow on the inlet. It never allow inlet
Did u suck and blow? I rest my case!!
The inlet is (100%) carried out by the the other side either under boost or idle and light throttle. It’s always open and can either draw in air or vent air out
When humming along under boost, its venting hard and being vacuumed off by the inlet on the intake tube...thus the introduction of oil separator. All harmful gasses are now sucked to the cans before going into the intake tube before the turbo. Stock system has those raw unfiltered cc gasses going directly into the intake before turbo..This is bad. Oily air on hot turbo impeller can coat turbo and the sensor that follow, IAT MAP.
I hope everyone had a great day!!

oh BTW
Heres my modified ccv system in place and running albeit 1 day and missing a critical check valve on order.
so far so good as I went out and hammered it for 30 miles

 

[Crosshairs]

They are 1 way and supply fresh air into the motor. They are part of the oil separator inside the valve cover which is fed by the MUA hose( make up air) or fresh air hose on the top of the valve cover ..it draws filtered air from the intake tube directly into the crankcase. You are looking at the underside of the cover and that is part of the oil separator(s). The PCV valve is on the other side of the valve cover ( dirty air side) and is connected to the intake so it has vacuum. As you know, if you suck air out of an engine (PCV) you must put it back (MUA )
when the vehicle is under boost, the PCV closes,they seal and the air is pushed through the oil separator back into the intake tube through the same MUA hose where it is then introduced back into the engine and re burned.

This is why I made the comment about an engine light, if this is not done perfectly and pressure gets out of range, you get a light....

here is a PDF that may help you understand how this system works. Those valves are part of #4

Again this is a Jeep 2.0 ,the Alfa is similar .

 

[Callisto]

You dont understand what u wrote. Pcv does NOT breath in at all. Cannot take air in!! You are confused and talking in circles like a lost hiker walking in circles w no compass. How can they b one way and supply air to motor???
Total contradiction. 100% false.
Further, PCV has nothing to to do with oil separation. That happens in the baffles in the vc. Although it’s mislabeled even by manufacturer, it separates nothing. It runs one way. That’s it!!!! Why can’t this b understood?What u showed was a pcv valve and spoke that it allowed fresh air in??? 200% wrong. Sorry, fact, not gonna change. Go blow on it and tell what happens!!! Nothing happens if working!!! It’s blocks and shuts off!!! That’s it’s job!!

The other side let’s air in and out. Not one way. This side is NOT PCV. PCV can only allow vapors to b sucked out I’ve known this for 40 years now. I’ve built custom ccv systems for aftermarket turbo cars for decades. I just put together a pcv system for Giulia. Please stop. You send a pdf on how it works? Really!! Read it please.
ive had enough now. Ridiculous. No wonder cars come out more fed up than when they went in!! These forums are a bad joke w misinformation fed buy....., ???? Good Bye, no more...Good luck readers. Some folks like a pcv...they only go one way...transmit yet cannot receive!!!

 

[Crosshairs]

You dont understand what u wrote. Pcv does NOT breath in at all. Cannot take air in!! You are confused and talking in circles like a lost hiker w no compass.
PCV has nothing to to do with oil separation. That happens in the baffles in the vc. Although it’s mislabeled even by manufacturer, it separates nothing. It runs one way. Why can’t this b understood?What u showed was a pcv valve and spoke that it allowed fresh air in??? 200% wrong. Sorry, fact, not gonna change. Go blow on it and tell what happens!!! Nothing happens if working!!! It’s blocked off!!! That’s it’s job!! The other side let’s air in. This side is NOT PCV. PCV can only allow vapors to b sucked out I’ve known this for 40 years now. I’ve built custom ccv systems for aftermarket turbo cars for decades. Please stop.
ive had enough now. Rid
iculous. No wonder cars come out more fed up than when they went in!!

What I showed and what I said is that those valves allow fresh air into the engine and that is exactly what they do. I dont know any other way to explain this to you so please do yourself a favor and read the attached information, I did not say that was the PCV valve, you did.

If those are the check / pcv valves then their sole capability is to VENT cc vapors only. They are only open when there is vacuum supplied by the intake manifold.

in fact I clearly stated that the PCV was on the other side of the valve cover

The PCV valve is on the other side of the valve cover ( dirty air side) and is connected to the intake so it has vacuum.

PCV has nothing to to do with oil separation. That happens in the baffles in the vc.

The PCV works in conjunction with the oil separator as the system is all interconnected

The other side let’s air in. This side is NOT PCV. PCV can only allow vapors to b sucked out I’ve known this for 40 years now. I’ve built custom ccv systems for aftermarket turbo cars for decades. Please stop.

They are connected, that is what you seem to be missing....40 years ago no one cared if you released crank vapors into the atmosphere..that is no longer the case.

Although it’s mislabeled even by manufacturer, it separates nothing. It runs one way

I have a direct number for engineering Ill share if you want to straighten them out. But if you speak to them the way you speak to me, I would expect they will hang up on you.

 

[Crosshairs]

diagnostic info...explains the airflow pretty clearly