Why are there not full frame or at least hybrid turbo options and more robust custom tuning options for the 2.0T Giulia after a good 2 years? I'm finding it rather annoying that nothing has came to the market with these with such an easy turbo location for replacements and easy ecu to deal with similar to continental simos ecus. Even the downpipe options are sparse and it's only 2 bends with a funky turbine flange. This engine is after all fully forged; crank, rods, pistons with oil squirters which could easily support 500whp/450wtq with proper calibration/fueling.
Lack of bigger turbos and tuning. Discuss.
ineedmorepsi
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Yep. Figured that out after reading the article. Thinking about it, I am not surprised by the stock turbo and wastegate control, it was clearly designed for street driving with low down torque in mind.
As cars become more and more efficient electronic wastegate control is the norm. Audi has been doing it since 2005.5 in the a4. Well see what testing terry can do to see if controlling the wg directly can do but i am guarded in my optimism as the flash tunes seem to be limited up top too.
Would love to know how ec p2 is making 390chp (or even 340chp) with only one psi more than stock at redline and only 3 degrees more timing than stock up top. Id really like to test out their tune in hopes for the best and i REALLY like their idea of a performance tc/esc but i dont want to throw away money either. Grrr
Mike
Mike
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The waste gate readout is from WiTech, correct?
Haven't found that in MES yet.
you answered You’re own question. Most likely not making 390chp. I would guess with stock turbo would be hard to get 340chp. Now they do show a promising 50-60 whp gain and that’s substantial. JB4 is most likely same or better when combined with exhaust and intake. In the end I think it’s maxed out on 2.0 so It’s a preference thing.
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wiTECH yes. In MES you can get it by selecting QV as base and in engine you can find it (ignore the ISO thing, just continue). Its reading was accurate last time I've checked, but don't rely on other data when using the QV ECM as base.
Don't see much of a need - it's just regulating to hit your desired boost target... and fairly well
That boost target in logs is not whats programmed though. Right now im targetting 3 psi over stock from 5500rpm to redline but it just wont do it. I can program whatever i want. I tried 4psi and 3.5psi over stock at redline and turbo wont do it. Just get limp mode from boost actual not being able to meet boost request.
Did you try lower values like 1 or 2? What were you using to log your parameters witech or mes because you had wgdc in your log.
Boost logic is probably more involved than just requesting higher boost and it seems no one fully understands whats going on. But i wouldnt say that the turbo isnt capable of pushing more at high rpms.
Boost logic is probably more involved than just requesting higher boost and it seems no one fully understands whats going on. But i wouldnt say that the turbo isnt capable of pushing more at high rpms.
Im using jb4 to log. Very easy setup. Even auto logs at wide open throttle 24 hours a day if you set it up that way. Right now i have it requesting 7psi over stock at low rpm tapering to 3psi over stock at redline and you can see from the logs what it can actually do for now.
Similar boost profile as ec p2 although more with jb4 in logs posted but ambient can impact this so dont want to draw conclusions.
Terry thinks its possible he can get a bit more top end directly controlling wastegate but wants to test extensively in house first as he doesn't want to be responsible for blowing turbos on customer cars as he told me
Still cant help but be reminded what squadra tuning says about stock turbo...
squadra-tuning.com
As stated earlier, the 2.0 Turbo MultiAir engine of the Giulia Veloce has been put on the market with 280 hp and 400 Nm. However, the rollingroad shows very different values. Everything between 440 and 460 Nm and between 280 and 310 (!) Hp is possible. The first-produced Giulia’s scored highest.
Despite these major differences, the big question for us was how much extra we could still get. After a lot of research and testing, we can only say that there is not much extra in it. With some turbo pressure increase in the mid speed range, about 20 to 30 Nm is added. By advancing the ignition at higher speeds around 10 to 12 hp. Increasing turbo pressure at higher revs unfortunately brings nothing extra. Except for an increased risk of ignition problems due to too much back pressure from the catalyst. Refueling with a good fuel is a must, see later in this article.
Similar boost profile as ec p2 although more with jb4 in logs posted but ambient can impact this so dont want to draw conclusions.
Terry thinks its possible he can get a bit more top end directly controlling wastegate but wants to test extensively in house first as he doesn't want to be responsible for blowing turbos on customer cars as he told me
Still cant help but be reminded what squadra tuning says about stock turbo...
2.0 Turbo Veloce 280 pk Chiptuning - Squadra Tuning
As stated earlier, the 2.0 Turbo MultiAir engine of the Giulia Veloce has been put on the market with 280..
squadra-tuning.com
As stated earlier, the 2.0 Turbo MultiAir engine of the Giulia Veloce has been put on the market with 280 hp and 400 Nm. However, the rollingroad shows very different values. Everything between 440 and 460 Nm and between 280 and 310 (!) Hp is possible. The first-produced Giulia’s scored highest.
Despite these major differences, the big question for us was how much extra we could still get. After a lot of research and testing, we can only say that there is not much extra in it. With some turbo pressure increase in the mid speed range, about 20 to 30 Nm is added. By advancing the ignition at higher speeds around 10 to 12 hp. Increasing turbo pressure at higher revs unfortunately brings nothing extra. Except for an increased risk of ignition problems due to too much back pressure from the catalyst. Refueling with a good fuel is a must, see later in this article.
@bhvrdr thank you for info.
Yes one could increase boost by manipulating the wdgc but who knows what else is involved in the feedback logic and changing wgdc may end up being compensated somewhere and do nothing, or something completely unexpected. Or limp, wgdc doesnt match boost request for example.
I cant wait to get my hands on MES to start logging my car.
Anyway, i think with right fuel these engines are capable of plenty. But we have to know how to work the logic to our advantage and use fuels like ethanol/methanol for extra gains.
Yes one could increase boost by manipulating the wdgc but who knows what else is involved in the feedback logic and changing wgdc may end up being compensated somewhere and do nothing, or something completely unexpected. Or limp, wgdc doesnt match boost request for example.
I cant wait to get my hands on MES to start logging my car.
Anyway, i think with right fuel these engines are capable of plenty. But we have to know how to work the logic to our advantage and use fuels like ethanol/methanol for extra gains.
Do you have a log that shows boost not hitting the request and the wastegate not modulating?
My guess is there is another protection scheme in the ECU that protects against a failed wastegate and/or the plastic intake manifold
Row 53 it hits limp mode...
20200427_183400_map 2 limp.csv
drive.google.com
If i ramp down boost request a half psi there its all bueno
Wgdc doesnt match boost request is a perfectly reasonably explanation of why you cant just crudely change one when there are tables probably addressing rpm v wdgc v boost request.
The comp gets confused and limps because the boost it is targetting is exceeding wgdc values in the table matching min/max for such boost request.
The comp gets confused and limps because the boost it is targetting is exceeding wgdc values in the table matching min/max for such boost request.
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Guys, it is quite late here in the UK and I am meant to be up for work at 5.30am tomorrow but here I am with the promised logs. I did what was suggested, 5th gear from low engine speed in Dynamic mode manual shifting all the way up to ~6k rpm with open throttle.
For full disclosure my spec:
2.0 200 HP (dyno tested as 225bhp) with exactly same engine and stock turbo as 280hp Veloce variant.
January 2017 built.
Remapped using Celtic tuning Emotion 2+ self flashing tool to 324 bhp and 350 lb/ft torque (claimed by them).
Map was developed using another UK forum member 280hp donor car on Celtic Tuning's own dyno facility.
Mods:
Sprint air filter.
19" 8.5J, 10J wheels.
Seletron Pedal Booster.
GFB DV+
All data logged using MES 4.6 Multiplex USB cable connection (No WGDC on MES)
Max boost was between 27 an 28 psig on almost all the runs. Stock 2.0 200hp engine is about 18 psig.
The 2 best runs I got:
![Image]()
![Image]()
EDIT: Raw data file here:
drive.google.com
For full disclosure my spec:
2.0 200 HP (dyno tested as 225bhp) with exactly same engine and stock turbo as 280hp Veloce variant.
January 2017 built.
Remapped using Celtic tuning Emotion 2+ self flashing tool to 324 bhp and 350 lb/ft torque (claimed by them).
Map was developed using another UK forum member 280hp donor car on Celtic Tuning's own dyno facility.
Mods:
Sprint air filter.
19" 8.5J, 10J wheels.
Seletron Pedal Booster.
GFB DV+
All data logged using MES 4.6 Multiplex USB cable connection (No WGDC on MES)
Max boost was between 27 an 28 psig on almost all the runs. Stock 2.0 200hp engine is about 18 psig.
The 2 best runs I got:
EDIT: Raw data file here:
MES BOOST DATA LOG Upload.csv
drive.google.com
@Triumph23 interesting. Air temps stayed same, spark advance 4deg, and boost 28 taper to 22.
Did they have you just flash and go or log and report back? I contacted them via email but no answer yer perhaps because i am in USA.
Thank you for sharing.
Did they have you just flash and go or log and report back? I contacted them via email but no answer yer perhaps because i am in USA.
Thank you for sharing.
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