Why are there not full frame or at least hybrid turbo options and more robust custom tuning options for the 2.0T Giulia after a good 2 years? I'm finding it rather annoying that nothing has came to the market with these with such an easy turbo location for replacements and easy ecu to deal with similar to continental simos ecus. Even the downpipe options are sparse and it's only 2 bends with a funky turbine flange. This engine is after all fully forged; crank, rods, pistons with oil squirters which could easily support 500whp/450wtq with proper calibration/fueling.
Lack of bigger turbos and tuning. Discuss.
ineedmorepsi
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That's the point. You bypass torque limits using a piggyback because piggybacks fool the ecu and tcu into seeing lower boost, load, and torque values than stock.
Agree but torque is suspected to be way in excess which at high rpm may give the zf a bit too much to chew. I’m pretty mechanically sympathetic (have to be with a transaxle Alfa!) but the tuners will be suspect to develop for people loading up the box excessively. To be honest I’ve only really heard of a few failures and it’s probably more down to shocks like wheel hop causing the damage.
Always a bit of a half assed way to tune imho - better getting inside it properly and looking at the real timing maps. The guy I’m planning on using spends hours on the rolling road - then the same again on the road. Having seen his ability on race cars the flexibility really shines. My last v6 Alfa gta flew with his map and Down pipes - not massive gains on the rr but mad mad on the road
Sure its great to have a transmission tune.
But for now there is nothing stopping anyone from strapping on a hybrid turbo with jb4 and custom mapping map6 torque curve to that of the hybrid turbo and getting the power you want, the factory safeties for engine retained, and the trans torque limits bypassed. Its just one easy way of doing it now
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Based on their site listing currently for the Giulia 2.0 they already offer support to remove the transmission limitations and accommodate hybrid turbos. If that’s true I might switch from EC while getting a hybrid turbo made:Celtic Tuning are curently working on the ZF8 Gearbox tuning for the Giulia
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Alfa Romeo Giulia/Stelvio ZF8 Gearbox development begins!! So today... we have finally gained access to the controller on the ZF8 automatic transmissions for the Giulia/Stelvio 2.9 V6 Bi-turbo, 2.0 Turbo and 2.2 Multijet diesel engines. The ZF8HP50 (in the 2.2 diesel and 2.0 turbos) and the ZF8HP75 in the Quadrifoglio will both gain from torque limitation removal and increased rpm range as at ...
Celtic Giulia 2.0
“CelticTuning” said:
I wonder if the do the tcu flashing remote? Bit of a hike for me to get a remap for me from them - and probably 2 days to get it right. As far as I’m aware they haven’t developed the hybrid but have talked about it. If I can get the transmission sorted for definite I’ll most probably press the button on getting the milling machine whirring on the turbo! I recon 400lb/ft is on the cards - will be properly quick as it’s lighter than the qv by a considerable amount.
@kozak is at 345/460 I think and he’s still a considerable amount from a QV in 60-130 and trap speeds. But unlocking the trans should yield big results as far as 0-60 ,1/8 & 1/4 times. After 90mph 2.0 just dies
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Keep us posted on how it goes. If they can do remote tuning for the hybrids I will be contacting them since I’m in the US. I haven’t seen any others who have listed the option here
Will do. I’ve got a lot of interest from various parties - I suspect the tuners can smell $€£.... I think the issue of remote will be cured by a ‘kit’ comprising a specific turbo spec and map to go with it. The issue will be the tcu flash which sounds as if you have to either buy the kit or go to them.
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What year is your car? Be interesting to see what the GPF cars put out on Celtics dyno compared to the earlier versions. Also, is there any value to raising the rev limiter evn more? I think on their FB page Celtic mentioned removing the trans rev limiter and going to 7000 rpm. Sounds like they are saying the transmission is limiting the revs as well.
ive yet to get the car - probably 17-18 just for cost of messing about with it and out of warranty.
believe the hp50 set limit is 550nm before it throws a fit and drags it back.
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How is the torque actually limited? Is it through timing or boost or something else? I work on Train drivelines and when the Hydro transmission requests a torque limitation its the ECM that adjusts fueling via the timing and rail actuators but this is on a Diesel engine thats 20 years old tech and not a modern Fi petrol engine.
Torque reading from ecu probably relies mostly on boost table. Trans TCU then relies on ecu.
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OK thanks. So when Celtic say that the TCU is holding back the performance, is this implying that when we request a throttle position when we push the pedal, the TCU is ultimately asking for a torque output from the ECM based on a map? So in layman's terms the TCU is the master in the system? Or does the throttle request from us go to the ECM only and then the TCU deals with whatever output it gets from the engine, only limiting torque in specific situations like in 1st and 2nd gear?
I'm intrigued by the integration between the Trans and Engine in these modern drive by wire systems, purely out of curiosity not because I can use the info for any mods lol!
I'm intrigued by the integration between the Trans and Engine in these modern drive by wire systems, purely out of curiosity not because I can use the info for any mods lol!
TCU and ECU work in a symbiotic relationship. The ECU supplies the torque number for the tcu.
Another example of this relationship is the rev and shift limits. The ECU has a rev limiter while the TCU has a shift point. If you tell the tcu to shift at 7k rpm and ecu has rev limiter at 5800rpm you are just going to get crazy bouncing off limiter.
Another example is the ECU prepraratory commands around shifting... remember ecu controls timing...very important around shifts. The tcu controls the actual shift though. So change the shift logic and you may want to address ecu timing around shfts too or its no longer seem less/ matched.
For tq limits, you can trick it on the ecu side or more directly you can take control of tcu and not only allow higher torque limits but also modify pressures and shift strategy to match the higher torque. This is the best way if you know what you're doing. If you don't its best to leave it alone as ive seen more zf tunes from people using hptuner kill a transmission than not. On the other hand ive seen good tunes someone made using hptuner give incredible results.
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Great explanation thanks! When you really start to think about all the parameters and factors involved for the whole system to work effectively its mind blowing. And as you say, change one aspect and it effe to potentially everything else in the chain. Anyway, sorry for going slightly off topic.
But with regards to tuning the transmission, what real world benefits would we get? Quicker shifting is the obvious one, anything else? How would the higher clamping forces translate to what we would feel?
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Installed madness power pack pro. Intake. Exhaust. After about 700 miles....love this car. But suoer un impressed with anything above 70mph.
Did this thread die again?
Also ... maybe I'm alone in this...I bought a MY18 used, and haven't done anything to it myself...but it also does odd things like legs me red line in neutral and park...and brake boosting will take off spinning all 4...... anyway....I honestly don't notice anything different from this car above 90mph than I did in my 16 Mustang GT.
I regularly get it to 130+ on a particular stretch of highway in Buffalo.
Also ... maybe I'm alone in this...I bought a MY18 used, and haven't done anything to it myself...but it also does odd things like legs me red line in neutral and park...and brake boosting will take off spinning all 4...... anyway....I honestly don't notice anything different from this car above 90mph than I did in my 16 Mustang GT.
I regularly get it to 130+ on a particular stretch of highway in Buffalo.
Measured it on Google maps, about 1 mile, starting rolling in 2nd at about 30, I dont really push past 135. It's got a bend in the road and while I have a q4 I'm also very due for new tires....lol....
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