[bhvrdr]

Nice bit of more boost up top from Celtic. Looks great for iats too. Great to see

 

[Alpha]

Row 53 it hits limp mode...

20200427_183400_map 2 limp.csv

drive.google.com

If i ramp down boost request a half psi there its all bueno

It's still showing the wastegate was still modulating before the hiccup. You are without a doubt hitting a limiter

 

[Alpha]

This was about the most I have seen my car run on Map 2

 

[Triumph23]

@Triumph23 interesting. Air temps stayed same, spark advance 4deg, and boost 28 taper to 22.

Did they have you just flash and go or log and report back? I contacted them via email but no answer yer perhaps because i am in USA.

Thank you for sharing.

I have to admit apart from understanding the boost pressures and it being 28psi max staying about 26_27 and tapering down to 23psi at redline, none of the other stuff mean much to me. But I am interested and intrigued to learn.
So how does my flash tune look? What do the spark advance numbers mean in reality?

This was a self flashing tune uploaded by myself as they are 250 miles away. They would have dyno tested if I was physically there though.

 

[Triumph23]

Guys, it is quite late here in the UK and I am meant to be up for work at 5.30am tomorrow but here I am with the promised logs. I did what was suggested, 5th gear from low engine speed in Dynamic mode manual shifting all the way up to ~6k rpm with open throttle.

For full disclosure my spec:
2.0 200 HP (dyno tested as 225bhp) with exactly same engine and stock turbo as 280hp Veloce variant.
January 2017 built.
Remapped using Celtic tuning Emotion 2+ self flashing tool to 324 bhp and 350 lb/ft torque (claimed by them).
Map was developed using another UK forum member 280hp donor car on Celtic Tuning's own dyno facility.

Mods:
Sprint fair filter.
19" 8.5J, 10J wheels.
Seletron Pedal Booster.
GFB DV+

All data logged using MES 4.6 Multiplex USB cable connection (No WGDC on MES)
Max boost was between 27 an 28 psig on almost all the runs. Stock 2.0 200hp engine is about 18 psig.

The 2 best runs I got:
View attachment 98310 View attachment 98311


EDIT: Raw data file here:

MES BOOST DATA LOG Upload.csv

drive.google.com

Oh I have now linked the raw data log from MES to previous post. Copied here again. This has a few additions of sensors.

MES BOOST DATA LOG Upload.csv

drive.google.com

 

[Dj-oohlya]

@Triumph23 .. i am new to Giulias so i dunno what to compare it to, so in that sense im very ignorant to what is default or normal for this platform. Peak boost and taper along with ignition timing/spark advance and air temps is mostly a note to myself for when i see next logs so i can reread whats on the log rather than having to look at it.

Wish we had wgdc to tell us how close to max they are pushing the turbo, is there no way to monitor that as well?

So far to my newbie eye your log looks great. What fuel are they saying their tune is for and what are you running?

 

[bhvrdr]

I have to admit apart from understanding the boost pressures and it being 28psi max staying about 26_27 and tapering down to 23psi at redline, none of the other stuff mean much to me. But I am interested and intrigued to learn.
So how does my flash tune look? What do the spark advance numbers mean in reality?

This was a self flashing tune uploaded by myself as they are 250 miles away. They would have dyno tested if I was physically there though.

Judging by your logs i would be quite happy. Id very roughly say that yes you are making every bit of your advertised 325 crank horsepower.

You are very roughly making 3psi over stock up top and 3 to 4 degrees of timing more than stock up top. Again, very very roughly on the roughly 15 or 20 cars ive modded the ecu ive found 1 psi to gain roughly 10hp and one degree of timing roughly 3hp. Likewise ive found 10 wheel horsepower good for around 1mph in the quarter mile.

I picked up around 2 psi in the upper rev band and zero timing and that consistently gets me 2mph in trap. Id estimate i am at around 310chp.

You picked up 3psi and 4 degrees timing. Id bet youre closer to 330chp.

These are just very rough estimates but short answer is yeah your tune looks alot better than the ec p2 log.

Any other ec p2 logs out there?

Mike

 

[Triumph23]

@Triumph23 .. i am new to Giulias so i dunno what to compare it to, so in that sense im very ignorant to what is default or normal for this platform. Peak boost and taper along with ignition timing/spark advance and air temps is mostly a note to myself for when i see next logs so i can reread whats on the log rather than having to look at it.

Wish we had wgdc to tell us how close to max they are pushing the turbo, is there no way to monitor that as well?

So far to my newbie eye your log looks great. What fuel are they saying their tune is for and what are you running?

The tune is for standard 95 RON fuel but I always run Shell V Power 99 RON.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[stocki]

A log from someone with EC P2 and an exhaust would be interesting.

 

[Il_Conte]

A log from someone with EC P2 and an exhaust would be interesting.

I have both... and I also have MES with cable obd2.
How do I log?

 

[stocki]

Connect to the ECU, select the "interesting" parameters and switch to "Graph" in MES.
Start recording with ?F10? I believe.

5th gear from 1500 to redline would be ideal.

 

[kozak]

Here you have ec p2, intake, exhaust.

5th dynamic.xlsx

1 file sent via WeTransfer, the simplest way to send your files around the world

we.tl

Wysłane z mojego SM-G973F przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

[Triumph23]

I have both... and I also have MES with cable obd2.
How do I log?

Not sure about cable OBD2 but assuming you know how to run MES, and not trying to teach you the basics, this is what you need to do (I did):

1. Connect MES to ECM.
2. Go to 'Parameters' and select the ones you want to log. For what I chose - have a look at my graphs and the excel CSV sheet to see what I logged in my earlier posts.
3. Start the engine and let is warm up.
4. Go for a short drive and let the oil temperature come up to 3 bars on the dash.
5. Find a suitable long stretch of road about 1/2 mile (ish) long without traffic.
6. Go to 'Graph' tab and click on "Start" logging (you can do this even before you set off).
7. Select Dynamic mode and Manual shifting.
8. Roll off slowly and quickly shift to 5th gear (you will need to get enough momentum to allow gearbox to shift to 5th). Let off throttle and coast.
9. Staying in 5th, now hit the throttle wide open and let it sweep through the rev range until you hit redline.
10. Let off throttle.
11. Repeat above steps 3 or 4 times to obtain enough repeatability.
12. Hit stop logging.
13. Once you have stopped, select 'Export' on the Graphing screen and save the .CSV file.
14. Upload that here.

Looking at the Throttle position on the excel file should tell you when you went full throttle, it should be close to 100%.

 

[Triumph23]

Judging by your logs i would be quite happy. Id very roughly say that yes you are making every bit of your advertised 325 crank horsepower.

You are very roughly making 3psi over stock up top and 3 to 4 degrees of timing more than stock up top. Again, very very roughly on the roughly 15 or 20 cars ive modded the ecu ive found 1 psi to gain roughly 10hp and one degree of timing roughly 3hp. Likewise ive found 10 wheel horsepower good for around 1mph in the quarter mile.

I picked up around 2 psi in the upper rev band and zero timing and that consistently gets me 2mph in trap. Id estimate i am at around 310chp.

You picked up 3psi and 4 degrees timing. Id bet youre closer to 330chp.

These are just very rough estimates but short answer is yeah your tune looks alot better than the ec p2 log.

Any other ec p2 logs out there?

Mike

Thanks for the feedback! Good to know it's all good. Celtic have been tuning cars for many years and are well regarded. They have their own QV and have tuned quite a few of them as well. The tuning scene among the UK Giulia owners is quite low compare to you guys. Which is why I find this forum quite engaging for mods.The more I mod, the more I am learning. After 3 years of the Giulia, despite all her quirks, I can't think of another car I would be happy to drive everyday except the Quadrifoglio ofcourse.

I always run Shell V Power 99RON fuel and luckily I have access to this on my way to work.

As far the trap times, if you remember from the 0-60 thread, my stock 200 (230hp) 1/4 miles was ~96mph and after the mod was~106mph so that was a 10mph improvement which based on your very rough estimate is 100 hp which nicely ties in with my measured power increase from 230hp to 330hp. So the numbers also add up with the claims. Celtic claim 324bhp (328.5 HP) and 350 lb/ft (474.5 Nm).

 

[Dj-oohlya]

So someone tell me why I shouldn’t pull the trigger on emotion2+ device and tune from Celtic Tuning. For 377 brits plus shipping plus possible import duties it seems like a steal. Am i missing something?

I assume it allows for no logging but i still plan on getting the mes multiplexed so that would cover that base.

Anyone be devils advocate for me pls.

 

[Triumph23]

So someone tell me why I shouldn’t pull the trigger on emotion2+ device and tune from Celtic Tuning. For 377 brits plus shipping plus possible import duties it seems like a steal. Am i missing something?

I assume it allows for no logging but i still plan on getting the mes multiplexed so that would cover that base.

Anyone be devils advocate for me pls.

I can confirm it does not log stuff. They are usually slow to respond via email for sales queries and everything goes through a front office so to speak looks like so any techie queries may take time..also they tune a zillion different models so they are usually quite busy. The flashing itself uses an online portal on the emotion website and the turnaround for a mod file after you upload stock file can be less than 24 hours. I got mine within a few hours during UK working hours. I had trouble reading the stock map as the device was looking for a earlier version of the stock map but after contacting them and a delay if 24 hours for them to read my error config file, they sent me an update and I was able to read stock. Everything went smooth after. This needs 3 overspeeds similar to EC for phonic wheel relearn to get rid of the flashing CEL at the end which is normal. Some people on here have had trouble getting rid of the flashing CEL with EC tune. I had the same issue but I figured it out using MES. Emotion looks for engine temp of 70 deg C but MES says phonic wheel reset need a temp of 80 deg C. So I let it heat up and then did the 3 overspeeds and all went fine after.

A lot of unasked for info I know but I thought I should make you aware of the process when comparing to EC which has the details on other threads. I am certainly not the devils advocate am I ?

If you do contact them, let them know you have a USA spec car. You probably do not have GPF so it should be fine.

 

[Dj-oohlya]

@Triumph23 thanks for the info. i had emailed them 2-3 days ago and they sent me a 1-3 step process. Apparently they offer a 14day refund, may apply only for in person flashing maybe.

I read that the device can hold up to 5 maps, perhaps for the future. Now only need for two i suspect oem and and stg1 tune. I think i will pull the trigger on this, did you end up paying any duty taxes? Who delivered, DHL?

How long would you ssy it takes to flash the ecu to stock or from stock to stg1?

i couldnt find their dyno sheet, would love to see one. I am sure the gains they speak of are peak, but I’d like to compare the new power curve to the oem one. Have you seen one somewhere?

What is GPF? Particulate filter? How do i confirm i dont have one and what if i did?

How about the SGW device? My car is a 2018 but not sure month, and would this be relevant. I actually sent them an email an hr ago reconfirming that their device and tune works with USA spec car and asked about sgw.

 

[Il_Conte]

Not sure about cable OBD2 but assuming you know how to run MES, and not trying to teach you the basics, this is what you need to do (I did):

1. Connect MES to ECM.
2. Go to 'Parameters' and select the ones you want to log. For what I chose - have a look at my graphs and the excel CSV sheet to see what I logged in my earlier posts.
3. Start the engine and let is warm up.
4. Go for a short drive and let the oil temperature come up to 3 bars on the dash.
5. Find a suitable long stretch of road about 1/2 mile (ish) long without traffic.
6. Go to 'Graph' tab and click on "Start" logging (you can do this even before you set off).
7. Select Dynamic mode and Manual shifting.
8. Roll off slowly and quickly shift to 5th gear (you will need to get enough momentum to allow gearbox to shift to 5th). Let off throttle and coast.
9. Staying in 5th, now hit the throttle wide open and let it sweep through the rev range until you hit redline.
10. Let off throttle.
11. Repeat above steps 3 or 4 times to obtain enough repeatability.
12. Hit stop logging.
13. Once you have stopped, select 'Export' on the Graphing screen and save the .CSV file.
14. Upload that here.

Looking at the Throttle position on the excel file should tell you when you went full throttle, it should be close to 100%.

Thanks. I might give it a whirl once I'm done working..

 

[Dj-oohlya]

I forgot to ask @Triumph23 one of the most important questions, does their tune work the same in D and N modes? Or is it limited to one mode only? I forgot to ask them in the email as well..

 

[Triumph23]

I forgot to ask @Triumph23 one of the most important questions, does their tune work the same in D and N modes? Or is it limited to one mode only? I forgot to ask them in the email as well..

The tune works in all 3 DNA modes. Boost is the same in D and N. D is the most aggressive due to the gearbox logic and pedal response. I much prefer driving in N with the tune to be honest as the auto gear change is calibrated much better for daily driving. D mode holds the gear for too long..I do us D occasionally when shifting manually with paddles on a twisty back road. So both D and N get full 330hp. A is enhanced a bit more than stock A. Combined with the pedal booster I even drive in A sometimes. It is that much better even with overtaking slow cars. Coasting in A stays. No other changes.

It is basically like an enhancement to all 3 modes by the same factor.

I am in the UK so no import duties but I know they ship all over the world.

Their dyno sheet is here: Click on view chart just under the tuned numbers.

Do you own a Alfa Romeo Giulia? Gain up to 21% of torque!

ECU Remapping for Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0 TB 276 bhp. Gain 21% torque with a Stage 1 petrol Tuning. Chip Tuning options available, EGR<br>Removal, Rev limit<br>removal, Speed limit<br>removal.

www.celtictuning.co.uk

GPF is Gasoline Particulate filter, fitted as standard to Euro cars to comply with Euro 6d emissions on the WLTP cycle. Don't think that made it to USA. I know Euro 6d 2.0 cars lose the front resonator from the exhaust just after the cat. So if you have a resonator you mostly likely don't have a GPF.

Once you read the stock file and get the tunes file, subsequent flashing takes about 15 to 20 mins. It takes another 5 to 10 mins to clear the flashing CEL depending on if the engine is upto temp (greater than 80 deg C). Flashing does cause a lot of comms errors in all the various modules but this is something you only see with Multiecuscan. I prefer clearing these all using MES so that I am starting with a clean slate so to speak. Most other OND readers won't even notice or pick up these errors as they cause no symptoms or warnings.

Think SGW was installed from late Jan 2018 IIRC?? If MES can read codes but not clear you probably have SGW. You should get a bypass.