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Let's travel back to March, 2016... Alfa, after a few years of 4C production, told us they are going to build the Giulia.

At that time, The Giulia was positioned well against it's rivals, being an equal, if not the better performing vehicle.

Fast forward six years, and both versions of the Giulia are, largely, untouched -- this is ignoring the limited production GTAm.
While the competition has gone thru major refreshes and to a large degree, have left the Giulia behind from a performance standpoint.

Sure, the future of the Giulia has been outlined, but how does Alfa hope to stay relevant over the next few years it takes to get the EV out, when the competition is providing better options?

Just some rambling thoughts, since I recently watched a 2017 review by Jason Cammisa where he compared the QV to the M3 and they ran nearly identical lap times... and knowing a 2022 QV vs 2022 M3 would be a much different result.

Could Alfa had introduced a manual and helped boost interest?
Could a mid-cycle refresh with a boost of power for the 2.0L and the QV helped?
 
Vehicle programs are supposed to have a plan forward when launched. I don’t see evidence that was the case with a Giulia, or if there was one that it was followed.

I did hear a crazy rumor around that time that one of the plans explored was a front-wheel-drive based Giulia similar to what was the Chrysler 200. Fortunately the Giorgio platform was the winning business case.
 
Just some rambling thoughts, since I recently watched a 2017 review by Jason Cammisa where he compared the QV to the M3 and they ran nearly identical lap times... and knowing a 2022 QV vs 2022 M3 would be a much different result.
I saw that same video just recently. And to all the rest of what you said, you have good points, and it definitely did add some trepidation to my decision to by a 2020 Giulia QV a few weeks ago. But I still absolutely love it.

And while you specifically mention a 2022 M3 vs QV, Car and Driver and Motortrend published articles in 2021 comparing those two cars. In both the QV came out ahead (though, annoyingly, C&D can never get past their 40,000 mile test they did with the QV in 2019). So even without major refreshes, at least as of last year, it is still managing to keep up.



Though, in the end I think you're right, they're doing themselves no favors by not trying to sell themselves harder. Imagine where it could be with some good refreshes. (Though, there's always the risk of a refresh going poorly... just look at the poor G80/G82 M3/M4 grill...).
 
Could Alfa had introduced a manual and helped boost interest?
No. I doubt the number they would have sold with manuals would have covered the development cost(considering the target market). The paddle-shifters are "good enough". Just ask Ferrari.

Correction: A manual QV was obviously released in the European market (as in the video i posted here). Camissa speculated(in a different video) that the cost of meeting regulations in N.America was why they decided against releasing it on this continent.

Could a mid-cycle refresh with a boost of power for the 2.0L and the QV helped?
Yes. I do not know of any specific plans for a mid-cycle refresh, but i do know that in mid-2019, CEO Michael Manley pulled the carpet out from under Alfa Romeo, by cancelling plans (for new models) and funding.

There have been several videos comparing the QV with the new BMW M3, and the numbers are still very close. I suppose it took BMW ~5years to catch up (horsepower, etc). At the end of the day, the Giulia is, IMHO, still the best looking sports sedan and "something special". To put it another way..... I reckon Giulia has a better chance of becoming a "future classic" than anything the competition currently offers(and that doesn't even factor in the changes which have been announced at the company since last year) IMHO.

Think about it.... it's a sedan developed by guys from Ferrari & Maserati, for the price of a BMW. What are the chances of that ever happening again?
 
As much as it pains me to say, yes the Giulia is irrelevant as far as the market goes. Sales are proof. Alfa created a beautiful and world-class handling car but half-assed everything else. By the time they remedied some of the issues the car was already 4 years into production and its reputation had been cemented. Most people still don't know about it or just know vaguely of the brand.

I'd say the issue is not as much the product as it is the complete lack of investment by the parent company into marketing, UX, quality control, etc.

Now as far as still being the best handling and most communicative driver's car in its class? Very relevant still and anybody who is a true car enthusiast, especially driving enthusiast, really admires this car. There are a lot of people like this, but unfortunately all the above alongside the lack of a mid-tier engine convinced them out of buying one.
 
Others have posted here that there is refresh coming as soon as the end of this year that will introduce LED headlights, digital cockpit among other things. That said, why they would choose to do this at the end of the cars lifecycle instead of back in 2020 during the last refresh is beyond me.

Anyone who buys one now is going to be super-alienated when the car gets a refresh at the end of its lifecycle.
 
I think that Giulia is relevant now and always. I think there is a fundamental problem when people talk about relevancy without talking about the core/soul of a brand. Alfisti keep Alfa Romeo alive and the other people simply move on to the next brand in vogue and to the brand(s) selling 10 times more than Alfa Romeo, historically.

The sales figures once again shows that relevance has nothing to do with Giulia. If relevance was the (or a) problem, Giulia needed a major facelift and major changes a year and a half after lunch and then, every year. Evidently, none sense.

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On the other hand, let's take a look at the changes Giulia had trough the years, from 1962 to 1977 (15 years!), to keep her relevant. Practically no changes. The major facelift was adding a couple of front head lights. Once people understand about Alfa Romeo and about the Alfa Romeo Way in its 110 years in the market, "relevance" is suddenly not even a conversation to have.

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So market it as a rare anachronism in today's marketplace?
 
owns 2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport AWD
I think it's because the g80 just came out and bc Maserati just came out with mc20, grecale, and now new Gran Turismo folgore that it seems like Alfa has nothing with just an announcement of tonale :(
 
Others have posted here that there is refresh coming as soon as the end of this year that will introduce LED headlights, digital cockpit among other things. That said, why they would choose to do this at the end of the cars lifecycle instead of back in 2020 during the last refresh is beyond me.

Anyone who buys one now is going to be super-alienated when the car gets a refresh at the end of its lifecycle.
The Giulia will not see a refresh for awhile… It’s still relevant and not going anywhere. The Giorgio platform isn’t going away anytime soon either.
 
It depends on what characteristics you evaluate when speaking of relevance.

Tech-wise it was irrelevant and dates even for 2016 and 2017 and no one will convince me otherwise. BMWs, for example, had LEDs, HUDs, 360 cameras, and other stuff in the F generation of their cars. Giulia still doesn't have it. Giulia's tech is the 00s, not late 10s, let alone 20s. Do you know that there are trims of Giulia with halogen lights? :)

There's a huge hairy BUT. Engineering wise in my opinion Giulia is a perfection in this segment, is relevant, and will be relevant for many years. I test drove BMW F80, F30, G30, Audi A4, A5, V6 Stinger, Standard Tesla 3 and nothing compares to Giulia, they're all good cars, some very good, but it doesn't amaze you, doesn't feel special, you don't question yourself how did they do that? And if you think about it, the progress in engineering is not that rapid, I can see many car brands just doing minor upgrades to their engines, transmissions, and suspension but overall it's the same old stuff used in the 00s or even 90s. And then they stuff cheap 90$ monitors and interior lights from NFS Underground and it attracts the general public. The interior tech impresses you for a day or a week and then you're stuck with a car driving like crap. But here's a trick - a non-car person would not notice the majority of the driving issues and won't care.

Tech and brochures with blingy bullet points buy cars, and engineering like in Giulia makes you keep the car, makes you a fan or at least a brand supporter. Same with BMWs, people buy them because of the brand or just overall brand perception of luxury and sportiness, but then buy BMWs again because for example there's no better drivetrain than the B57 or B58, because of engineering, not because of the 360 camera. The majority of people whom I know and own a BMW, they're BMW fanboys. Same with Alfas.

The difference of Giulia though is that on paper it doesn't impress you with gazillion bullet points describing all the features like laser lights, HUDs, automatic parking, electric trunk lids, and so on.
Only car enthusiasts would care about bullet points listing LDS, aluminum paddle shifters, Brembo brakes as standard, 50-50 weight, carbon driveshaft, double wishbone, 5 link suspension, and so on. The general public doesn't even know what it is for. But the BMW will offer almost the same, but much more flexibility in specs + a lot of blingy tech stuff for everyday use. A non-car person can go to the BMW dealership and spec a 320D wagon with laser lights, HUD, and other stuff and car enthusiasts can spec an M340i with manual seats and no HUD if they want to keep the price lower. Or an M340i/M340D wagon!

And I don't know about the US, but here in Europe average NET salary in the mid-class could be say, 2-3-4-5 thousand euros monthly. Veloce (Ti Sport) costs around 60k, Veloce Ti (Ti Sport with carbon and perf. pack. or Estrema nowadays) would cost closer to 70k euros. Now compare it to the average salary. Then think of 2euros for 1 liter 98 gasoline prices = 7.5 euros or 8.15 USD for a gallon. I spend 300 euros on petrol alone per month. Where I am leading to?

You'd be paying 700 euros for leasing and 300 for petrol + maintenance and taxes in some countries. This is a very pricy car to own in Europe. 1/4 of 1/3 of your income. It's a privilege, not just some car.
For that type of spending, you have to either be a die-hard car enthusiast and you just don't care, or it should be doing EVERYTHING as a car.
That's why if a person over here can afford a 60-70k car, they'd go for something that offers both tech and engineering and probably cargo space and is fairly fuel-efficient. It should tick as many boxes as possible. And that makes Giulia a very niche car a prior. You will go and rather buy a well-specced Audi Q5, Macan 2.0, X3, XC60, or some station wagon/liftback or two Qashqais if you're a family man and need 2 cars for 70k :)

And you won't see a lot of Audi A4, A5, BMW 3, C classes in Europe actually, because they don't make a lot of sense anymore for the average person. They're already quite pricy, but the use case is narrow. If you can afford just 1 car, it's not very practical. Want comfort? Go for BMW 5 or A6 already. Want utility? Go for an SUV. Compact premium sedans are a niche thing on their own already, let alone Giulia.

Stelvio failed because it doesn't make sense, apologies to everyone. It tries to be sporty, compared to other SUVs it is, but in general, it's not. It's a huge compromise, but then it also loses in other departments that are important to the general public. Keep the brilliant looks of Stelvio, make it slightly less sporty and more comfortable ride, improve the interior just a bit, add some fancy tech options and then it'll become a well-sold SUV.

TL/DR
I think you can't and couldn't make anything to make Giulia a sales hit, maybe just boost sales a tad.
 
I am very enamored of my Giulia but to be honest I happen to think that had AR invested in curing the many software and tech issues that these cars have suffered from since its inception it would have done a lot toward greater sales and subsequent additional purchases. e.g. as just one item, what other car/brand in this segment is unable to keep it's battery sufficiently charged in normal use such that the vehicle suffers all manner of warning light activation and computer responses? Not to mention things like water intrusion into the passenger compartment and similar design/build quality issues (seriously. Seems the sales issues suffered by AR are self inflicted. When it's time to replace my car it's most definitely NOT going to be another Alfa. Sad state of affairs indeed.
 
Is it still relevant....yes in my opinion.

But it is niche, “drivers” cars are niche whether that means niche in the context of a brand or niche within a brand. Most people are happy just buying transport. Since BMW is so often mentioned you can see that the drivers models within the portfolio of product (like M3/M4 products) are niche/specialist products. They are not representative of most current BMW product. The compact sedan as segment is itself becoming increasingly niche with the rise an rise of SUV. Again referencing BMW, the 3 series was the mainstream product for decades now the top models all start with an X.

Personally, what I don’t see as being relevant are a lot of the features on many cars. I used very few of the gadgets on my previous Audi which had every conceivable option. I don’t miss what isn’t included in the Giulia and generally don’t use those that are included. I would like a HUD though on the Giulia.
 
There are a lot of great and valid points on here. All this talk of updates, fixing gremlins, and staying relevant and competitive and the downfalls of not doing so are important, well thought out arguments. And they make me a little sad given how much I love the car. The talk of how it’s a niche, driver’s car does make me happy too though.

But let me just say, all the tech and flashy stuff other makes are putting in their cars are great, and update the infotainment system all day every day: but give me that analogue speedometer and tachometer.
 
I think if a manufacturer wants to sell a lot of cars, they will focus on value for money, or nice looking cars, with reliable features, and keep them simple and relatively cheap. From what I see, few people ever wash their cars after they get them, the paint fades, the rims are grimy, the tires are low performance, and likely rarely get routine service. The vast majority of cars seem to be considered just as transportation, and car manufactures sell huge numbers of really bland, non-engaging cars. I think most people couldn't even say what size rims are on their cars, or even know how many cylinders the engine has.

Alfa doesn't make cars for those people. And there are a lot fewer of us who appreciate "handling' and "performance", and are quite willing to tolerate "quirks" to have such responsive automobiles. I have an '18 QV, and have no need for any upgrades or "improvements". Sometimes, "improvements" to car lines are just to be able have something new to advertise. NV
 
I'm still a newbie with the purchase of our Alfa back in January but I appreciate and love what it represents as far as racing heritage and the unique way it stands apart from other makes. How many of us get excited about the latest Honda Accord? They seemingly change twice a year, they're as throwaway as the latest smart phone offering but somehow they're so relevant with the critics and the general public.

I love lost causes, so maybe Alfas are lost causes but that's okay, we bought it because of what it is--beautiful and amazing to drive, with no stress that it'll be upstaged by newer versions of itself every time we turn around.
 
The Giulia will not see a refresh for awhile… It’s still relevant and not going anywhere. The Giorgio platform isn’t going away anytime soon either.
Maybe this is a semantics issue, but a refresh is definitely coming. LED headlights, front bumper, digital cockpit and more.

 
Refresh? If this is what they're going to do to the Giulia, dear God I wish they'd sell the brand to someone who cares about what an Alfa Romeo is.

One of the nicest things about the front of the Giulia is it's headlights; a beautiful, clean, feline appearance.

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If this is actually what they're going to do to it, this is terrible:

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Another beautiful and distinctly Italian feature is the excellent instrument cluster.

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If this is what they going to change it to, omg just discontinue the car instead of neutering it like this!

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Since they're going to go electric, just start with a clean sheet. Don't screw up this jewel that Sergio left us. Upgrade interior materials, add another 50 hp maybe, but don't screw it up visually by trying to make it look trendy.
 
Refresh? If this is what they're going to do to the Giulia, dear God I wish they'd sell the brand to someone who cares about what an Alfa Romeo is.

One of the nicest things about the front of the Giulia is it's headlights; a beautiful, clean, feline appearance.

View attachment 125323

If this is actually what they're going to do to it, this is terrible:

View attachment 125321


Another beautiful and distinctly Italian feature is the excellent instrument cluster.

View attachment 125325

If this is what they going to change it to, omg just discontinue the car instead of neutering it like this!

View attachment 125322

Since they're going to go electric, just start with a clean sheet. Don't screw up this jewel that Sergio left us. Upgrade interior materials, add another 50 hp maybe, but don't screw it up visually by trying to make it look trendy.
It's more surprising to me that they would put out a relatively large revision for only the last year or two of the vehicles lifecycle. What's the point? You're really just alienating pretty much everyone that already owns one, lol.
 
I think if a manufacturer wants to sell a lot of cars, they will focus on value for money, or nice looking cars, with reliable features, and keep them simple and relatively cheap. From what I see, few people ever wash their cars after they get them, the paint fades, the rims are grimy, the tires are low performance, and likely rarely get routine service. The vast majority of cars seem to be considered just as transportation, and car manufactures sell huge numbers of really bland, non-engaging cars. I think most people couldn't even say what size rims are on their cars, or even know how many cylinders the engine has.

Alfa doesn't make cars for those people. And there are a lot fewer of us who appreciate "handling' and "performance", and are quite willing to tolerate "quirks" to have such responsive automobiles. I have an '18 QV, and have no need for any upgrades or "improvements". Sometimes, "improvements" to car lines are just to be able have something new to advertise. NV
In my experience I'm amazed that so many men have no idea how much HP their cars have..or even the number of cylinders! Even when brand new!? I feel embarrassed for them so I quickly change the subject.
Yikes, what did you ask the salesman when buying??

Guys around my office get more excited about some new PHEV or Hybrid appliance that rolls into the parking lot..
And I have a fire breathing Ferrari derived monster sitting right outside.

🙄
 
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