Vehicle programs are supposed to have a plan forward when launched. I don’t see evidence that was the case with a Giulia, or if there was one that it was followed.

I did hear a crazy rumor around that time that one of the plans explored was a front-wheel-drive based Giulia similar to what was the Chrysler 200. Fortunately the Giorgio platform was the winning business case.

 

Just some rambling thoughts, since I recently watched a 2017 review by Jason Cammisa where he compared the QV to the M3 and they ran nearly identical lap times... and knowing a 2022 QV vs 2022 M3 would be a much different result.

I saw that same video just recently. And to all the rest of what you said, you have good points, and it definitely did add some trepidation to my decision to by a 2020 Giulia QV a few weeks ago. But I still absolutely love it.

And while you specifically mention a 2022 M3 vs QV, Car and Driver and Motortrend published articles in 2021 comparing those two cars. In both the QV came out ahead (though, annoyingly, C&D can never get past their 40,000 mile test they did with the QV in 2019). So even without major refreshes, at least as of last year, it is still managing to keep up.

2021 BMW M3 Comp vs. Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio Comparison Test: Four-Door Fire

This … this was a tough choice.

www.motortrend.com

Comparison Test: 2021 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio vs. BMW M3 Competition

Sports-sedan performance and passion with BMW's new M3 and Alfa Romeo's sultry Giulia Quadrifoglio.

www.caranddriver.com

Though, in the end I think you're right, they're doing themselves no favors by not trying to sell themselves harder. Imagine where it could be with some good refreshes. (Though, there's always the risk of a refresh going poorly... just look at the poor G80/G82 M3/M4 grill...).

 

I saw that same video just recently. And to all the rest of what you said, you have good points, and it definitely did add some trepidation to my decision to by a 2020 Giulia QV a few weeks ago. But I still absolutely love it.

And while you specifically mention a 2022 M3 vs QV, Car and Driver and Motortrend published articles in 2021 comparing those two cars. In both the QV came out ahead (though, annoyingly, C&D can never get past their 40,000 mile test they did with the QV in 2019). So even without major refreshes, at least as of last year, it is still managing to keep up.

2021 BMW M3 Comp vs. Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio Comparison Test: Four-Door Fire

This … this was a tough choice.

www.motortrend.com

Comparison Test: 2021 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio vs. BMW M3 Competition

Sports-sedan performance and passion with BMW's new M3 and Alfa Romeo's sultry Giulia Quadrifoglio.

www.caranddriver.com

Though, in the end I think you're right, they're doing themselves no favors by not trying to sell themselves harder. Imagine where it could be with some good refreshes. (Though, there's always the risk of a refresh going poorly... just look at the poor G80/G82 M3/M4 grill...).

It's funny, Road & Track used to be better than Car and Driver, decades ago.

 

Could Alfa had introduced a manual and helped boost interest?

No. I doubt the number they would have sold with manuals would have covered the development cost(considering the target market). The paddle-shifters are "good enough". Just ask Ferrari.

Correction: A manual QV was obviously released in the European market (as in the video i posted here). Camissa speculated(in a different video) that the cost of meeting regulations in N.America was why they decided against releasing it on this continent.

Could a mid-cycle refresh with a boost of power for the 2.0L and the QV helped?

Yes. I do not know of any specific plans for a mid-cycle refresh, but i do know that in mid-2019, CEO Michael Manley pulled the carpet out from under Alfa Romeo, by cancelling plans (for new models) and funding.

There have been several videos comparing the QV with the new BMW M3, and the numbers are still very close. I suppose it took BMW ~5years to catch up (horsepower, etc). At the end of the day, the Giulia is, IMHO, still the best looking sports sedan and "something special". To put it another way..... I reckon Giulia has a better chance of becoming a "future classic" than anything the competition currently offers(and that doesn't even factor in the changes which have been announced at the company since last year) IMHO.

Think about it.... it's a sedan developed by guys from Ferrari & Maserati, for the price of a BMW. What are the chances of that ever happening again?

 

No. I doubt the number they would have sold with manuals would have covered the development cost(considering the target market). The paddle-shifters are "good enough". Just ask Ferrari.

Manual Quad was sold in Europe until 2018, then it was discontinued.

 

As much as it pains me to say, yes the Giulia is irrelevant as far as the market goes. Sales are proof. Alfa created a beautiful and world-class handling car but half-assed everything else. By the time they remedied some of the issues the car was already 4 years into production and its reputation had been cemented. Most people still don't know about it or just know vaguely of the brand.

I'd say the issue is not as much the product as it is the complete lack of investment by the parent company into marketing, UX, quality control, etc.

Now as far as still being the best handling and most communicative driver's car in its class? Very relevant still and anybody who is a true car enthusiast, especially driving enthusiast, really admires this car. There are a lot of people like this, but unfortunately all the above alongside the lack of a mid-tier engine convinced them out of buying one.

 

Others have posted here that there is refresh coming as soon as the end of this year that will introduce LED headlights, digital cockpit among other things. That said, why they would choose to do this at the end of the cars lifecycle instead of back in 2020 during the last refresh is beyond me.

Anyone who buys one now is going to be super-alienated when the car gets a refresh at the end of its lifecycle.

 

Others have posted here that there is refresh coming as soon as the end of this year that will introduce LED headlights, digital cockpit among other things. That said, why they would choose to do this at the end of the cars lifecycle instead of back in 2020 during the last refresh is beyond me.

Anyone who buys one now is going to be super-alienated when the car gets a refresh at the end of its lifecycle.

The Giulia will not see a refresh for awhile… It’s still relevant and not going anywhere. The Giorgio platform isn’t going away anytime soon either.

 

I think that Giulia is relevant now and always. I think there is a fundamental problem when people talk about relevancy without talking about the core/soul of a brand. Alfisti keep Alfa Romeo alive and the other people simply move on to the next brand in vogue and to the brand(s) selling 10 times more than Alfa Romeo, historically.

The sales figures once again shows that relevance has nothing to do with Giulia. If relevance was the (or a) problem, Giulia needed a major facelift and major changes a year and a half after lunch and then, every year. Evidently, none sense.

On the other hand, let's take a look at the changes Giulia had trough the years, from 1962 to 1977 (15 years!), to keep her relevant. Practically no changes. The major facelift was adding a couple of front head lights. Once people understand about Alfa Romeo and about the Alfa Romeo Way in its 110 years in the market, "relevance" is suddenly not even a conversation to have.

 

So market it as a rare anachronism in today's marketplace?

 

I think it's because the g80 just came out and bc Maserati just came out with mc20, grecale, and now new Gran Turismo folgore that it seems like Alfa has nothing with just an announcement of tonale

 

It depends on what characteristics you evaluate when speaking of relevance.

Tech-wise it was irrelevant and dates even for 2016 and 2017 and no one will convince me otherwise. BMWs, for example, had LEDs, HUDs, 360 cameras, and other stuff in the F generation of their cars. Giulia still doesn't have it. Giulia's tech is the 00s, not late 10s, let alone 20s. Do you know that there are trims of Giulia with halogen lights?

There's a huge hairy BUT. Engineering wise in my opinion Giulia is a perfection in this segment, is relevant, and will be relevant for many years. I test drove BMW F80, F30, G30, Audi A4, A5, V6 Stinger, Standard Tesla 3 and nothing compares to Giulia, they're all good cars, some very good, but it doesn't amaze you, doesn't feel special, you don't question yourself how did they do that? And if you think about it, the progress in engineering is not that rapid, I can see many car brands just doing minor upgrades to their engines, transmissions, and suspension but overall it's the same old stuff used in the 00s or even 90s. And then they stuff cheap 90$ monitors and interior lights from NFS Underground and it attracts the general public. The interior tech impresses you for a day or a week and then you're stuck with a car driving like crap. But here's a trick - a non-car person would not notice the majority of the driving issues and won't care.

Tech and brochures with blingy bullet points buy cars, and engineering like in Giulia makes you keep the car, makes you a fan or at least a brand supporter. Same with BMWs, people buy them because of the brand or just overall brand perception of luxury and sportiness, but then buy BMWs again because for example there's no better drivetrain than the B57 or B58, because of engineering, not because of the 360 camera. The majority of people whom I know and own a BMW, they're BMW fanboys. Same with Alfas.

The difference of Giulia though is that on paper it doesn't impress you with gazillion bullet points describing all the features like laser lights, HUDs, automatic parking, electric trunk lids, and so on.
Only car enthusiasts would care about bullet points listing LDS, aluminum paddle shifters, Brembo brakes as standard, 50-50 weight, carbon driveshaft, double wishbone, 5 link suspension, and so on. The general public doesn't even know what it is for. But the BMW will offer almost the same, but much more flexibility in specs + a lot of blingy tech stuff for everyday use. A non-car person can go to the BMW dealership and spec a 320D wagon with laser lights, HUD, and other stuff and car enthusiasts can spec an M340i with manual seats and no HUD if they want to keep the price lower. Or an M340i/M340D wagon!

And I don't know about the US, but here in Europe average NET salary in the mid-class could be say, 2-3-4-5 thousand euros monthly. Veloce (Ti Sport) costs around 60k, Veloce Ti (Ti Sport with carbon and perf. pack. or Estrema nowadays) would cost closer to 70k euros. Now compare it to the average salary. Then think of 2euros for 1 liter 98 gasoline prices = 7.5 euros or 8.15 USD for a gallon. I spend 300 euros on petrol alone per month. Where I am leading to?

You'd be paying 700 euros for leasing and 300 for petrol + maintenance and taxes in some countries. This is a very pricy car to own in Europe. 1/4 of 1/3 of your income. It's a privilege, not just some car.
For that type of spending, you have to either be a die-hard car enthusiast and you just don't care, or it should be doing EVERYTHING as a car.
That's why if a person over here can afford a 60-70k car, they'd go for something that offers both tech and engineering and probably cargo space and is fairly fuel-efficient. It should tick as many boxes as possible. And that makes Giulia a very niche car a prior. You will go and rather buy a well-specced Audi Q5, Macan 2.0, X3, XC60, or some station wagon/liftback or two Qashqais if you're a family man and need 2 cars for 70k

And you won't see a lot of Audi A4, A5, BMW 3, C classes in Europe actually, because they don't make a lot of sense anymore for the average person. They're already quite pricy, but the use case is narrow. If you can afford just 1 car, it's not very practical. Want comfort? Go for BMW 5 or A6 already. Want utility? Go for an SUV. Compact premium sedans are a niche thing on their own already, let alone Giulia.

Stelvio failed because it doesn't make sense, apologies to everyone. It tries to be sporty, compared to other SUVs it is, but in general, it's not. It's a huge compromise, but then it also loses in other departments that are important to the general public. Keep the brilliant looks of Stelvio, make it slightly less sporty and more comfortable ride, improve the interior just a bit, add some fancy tech options and then it'll become a well-sold SUV.

TL/DR
I think you can't and couldn't make anything to make Giulia a sales hit, maybe just boost sales a tad.

 

It depends on what characteristics you evaluate when speaking of relevance.

Tech-wise it was irrelevant and dates even for 2016 and 2017 and no one will convince me otherwise. BMWs, for example, had LEDs, HUDs, 360 cameras, and other stuff in the F generation of their cars. Giulia still doesn't have it. Giulia's tech is the 00s, not late 10s, let alone 20s. Do you know that there are trims of Giulia with halogen lights?

There's a huge hairy BUT. Engineering wise in my opinion Giulia is a perfection in this segment, is relevant, and will be relevant for many years. I test drove BMW F80, F30, G30, Audi A4, A5, V6 Stinger, Standard Tesla 3 and nothing compares to Giulia, they're all good cars, some very good, but it doesn't amaze you, doesn't feel special, you don't question yourself how did they do that? And if you think about it, the progress in engineering is not that rapid, I can see many car brands just doing minor upgrades to their engines, transmissions, and suspension but overall it's the same old stuff used in the 00s or even 90s. And then they stuff cheap 90$ monitors and interior lights from NFS Underground and it attracts the general public. The interior tech impresses you for a day or a week and then you're stuck with a car driving like crap. But here's a trick - a non-car person would not notice the majority of the driving issues and won't care.

Tech and brochures with blingy bullet points buy cars, and engineering like in Giulia makes you keep the car, makes you a fan or at least a brand supporter. Same with BMWs, people buy them because of the brand or just overall brand perception of luxury and sportiness, but then buy BMWs again because for example there's no better drivetrain than the B57 or B58, because of engineering, not because of the 360 camera. The majority of people whom I know and own a BMW, they're BMW fanboys. Same with Alfas.

The difference of Giulia though is that on paper it doesn't impress you with gazillion bullet points describing all the features like laser lights, HUDs, automatic parking, electric trunk lids, and so on.
Only car enthusiasts would care about bullet points listing LDS, aluminum paddle shifters, Brembo brakes as standard, 50-50 weight, carbon driveshaft, double wishbone, 5 link suspension, and so on. The general public doesn't even know what it is for. But the BMW will offer almost the same, but much more flexibility in specs + a lot of blingy tech stuff for everyday use. A non-car person can go to the BMW dealership and spec a 320D wagon with laser lights, HUD, and other stuff and car enthusiasts can spec an M340i with manual seats and no HUD if they want to keep the price lower. Or an M340i/M340D wagon!

And I don't know about the US, but here in Europe average NET salary in the mid-class could be say, 2-3-4-5 thousand euros monthly. Veloce (Ti Sport) costs around 60k, Veloce Ti (Ti Sport with carbon and perf. pack. or Estrema nowadays) would cost closer to 70k euros. Now compare it to the average salary. Then think of 2euros for 1 liter 98 gasoline prices = 7.5 euros or 8.15 USD for a gallon. I spend 300 euros on petrol alone per month. Where I am leading to?

You'd be paying 700 euros for leasing and 300 for petrol + maintenance and taxes in some countries. This is a very pricy car to own in Europe. 1/4 of 1/3 of your income. It's a privilege, not just some car.
For that type of spending, you have to either be a die-hard car enthusiast and you just don't care, or it should be doing EVERYTHING as a car.
That's why if a person over here can afford a 60-70k car, they'd go for something that offers both tech and engineering and probably cargo space and is fairly fuel-efficient. It should tick as many boxes as possible. And that makes Giulia a very niche car a prior. You will go and rather buy a well-specced Audi Q5, Macan 2.0, X3, XC60, or some station wagon/liftback or two Qashqais if you're a family man and need 2 cars for 70k

And you won't see a lot of Audi A4, A5, BMW 3, C classes in Europe actually, because they don't make a lot of sense anymore for the average person. They're already quite pricy, but the use case is narrow. If you can afford just 1 car, it's not very practical. Want comfort? Go for BMW 5 or A6 already. Want utility? Go for an SUV. Compact premium sedans are a niche thing on their own already, let alone Giulia.

Stelvio failed because it doesn't make sense, apologies to everyone. It tries to be sporty, compared to other SUVs it is, but in general, it's not. It's a huge compromise, but then it also loses in other departments that are important to the general public. Keep the brilliant looks of Stelvio, make it slightly less sporty and more comfortable ride, improve the interior just a bit, add some fancy tech options and then it'll become a well-sold SUV.

TL/DR
I think you can't and couldn't make anything to make Giulia a sales hit, maybe just boost sales a tad.

In California 5000 Euros/month qualifies you for financial assistance. In the USA 2000 Euros/month is below the poverty line. I did not know that things were so dire in Europe.
OTOH, Alfa (and BMW and Audi) are not targeting financially "average" people. The cost of an Alfa in the USA is also quite a bit lower, largely due to lower taxes and both vehicle sales and gasoline, with the end result being that most Alfa buyers are paying 10% or less of their income to own and operate one.

Anyway, has any of the competition bettered Alfa's 280HP 2.0T in this price range? The QV is lagging (there are several 600HP engines amongst the competition now) but also likely to be regulated out of existence soon due to high CO2 emissions.
HUD may or may not be a good thing--I have not driven a car with one.
360 degree camera looks fancy, but is it accurate enough to trust? How often do you have to clean those cameras? I have enough trouble with the one back up camera on my Giulia.

Digital dashboard? Gag me with a spoon.

LED headlights? Only if they out perform the HID for brightness, glare and freezing. That seems unlikely to happen.

Self driving? Maybe when I buy a BEV that has a crappy driving experience; or when I am too old to drive well.

Alfa needs to have some advertising. Alfa needs to fix it's perception of having reliability issues that are worse than the competition. Alfa needs to fix it's perception of costing more than the competition. I have lost count of how many times people have asked me if my car cost $x, where X is a large number (anywhere from $70k to $150k)--my car MSRP was $56k.

IMO, Alfa needs a "parts bin" bespoke program, such as those that the competition (BMW) have abandoned (?). That is the kind of thing that would attract the kind of people who want and can afford a car like this.

Regarding updates: In 1961 Jag announced the E-type. A well balanced sports car that is still relevant. They did an update in 1965 with an improved engine and transmission and more comfortable seats--all good. Then came 1967 and things rapidly went down hill--messed up styling, degraded engine performance (smog compliance). Finally 1971 came along and they stretched the chassis, installed that too heavy for the car V12 together with power steering and totally ruined the concept. Ask Joe-average though and if you say Jag XKE (another USA marketing mess) they immediately ask "with the V12?". They don't care that the power to weight ratio of the V12 was not better than with the original 3.8L I6*, they don't care that the driving dynamics are completely messed up by the chassis length increase, power steering and front heavy weight balance, all they care about is that heavily advertised V12. The E-type was discontinued in 1975 because it could not meet crash test requirements. Let's hope that Giulia type 952 makes a more dignified progression.

* OK, it is relatively easy to tune the V12 for a lot more power, while the I6 is difficult to tune.

 

I am very enamored of my Giulia but to be honest I happen to think that had AR invested in curing the many software and tech issues that these cars have suffered from since its inception it would have done a lot toward greater sales and subsequent additional purchases. e.g. as just one item, what other car/brand in this segment is unable to keep it's battery sufficiently charged in normal use such that the vehicle suffers all manner of warning light activation and computer responses? Not to mention things like water intrusion into the passenger compartment and similar design/build quality issues (seriously. Seems the sales issues suffered by AR are self inflicted. When it's time to replace my car it's most definitely NOT going to be another Alfa. Sad state of affairs indeed.

 

I have a 2019 Gulia QV, built August 2018, and the only problems I've had were the battery dying year after I got it, which was a known issue with the factory batteries, and more recently, a few months ago, I had the dashboard replaced under warranty because the corners were curling up under the corners of the windshield in front of the speakers. I haven't had a single electrical or mechanical problem, with the car, though I might say that though I only have about 10,000 miles on it.

 

Is it still relevant....yes in my opinion.

But it is niche, “drivers” cars are niche whether that means niche in the context of a brand or niche within a brand. Most people are happy just buying transport. Since BMW is so often mentioned you can see that the drivers models within the portfolio of product (like M3/M4 products) are niche/specialist products. They are not representative of most current BMW product. The compact sedan as segment is itself becoming increasingly niche with the rise an rise of SUV. Again referencing BMW, the 3 series was the mainstream product for decades now the top models all start with an X.

Personally, what I don’t see as being relevant are a lot of the features on many cars. I used very few of the gadgets on my previous Audi which had every conceivable option. I don’t miss what isn’t included in the Giulia and generally don’t use those that are included. I would like a HUD though on the Giulia.

 

There are a lot of great and valid points on here. All this talk of updates, fixing gremlins, and staying relevant and competitive and the downfalls of not doing so are important, well thought out arguments. And they make me a little sad given how much I love the car. The talk of how it’s a niche, driver’s car does make me happy too though.

But let me just say, all the tech and flashy stuff other makes are putting in their cars are great, and update the infotainment system all day every day: but give me that analogue speedometer and tachometer.

 

I think if a manufacturer wants to sell a lot of cars, they will focus on value for money, or nice looking cars, with reliable features, and keep them simple and relatively cheap. From what I see, few people ever wash their cars after they get them, the paint fades, the rims are grimy, the tires are low performance, and likely rarely get routine service. The vast majority of cars seem to be considered just as transportation, and car manufactures sell huge numbers of really bland, non-engaging cars. I think most people couldn't even say what size rims are on their cars, or even know how many cylinders the engine has.

Alfa doesn't make cars for those people. And there are a lot fewer of us who appreciate "handling' and "performance", and are quite willing to tolerate "quirks" to have such responsive automobiles. I have an '18 QV, and have no need for any upgrades or "improvements". Sometimes, "improvements" to car lines are just to be able have something new to advertise. NV

 

I think if a manufacturer wants to sell a lot of cars, they will focus on value for money, or nice looking cars, with reliable features, and keep them simple and relatively cheap. From what I see, few people ever wash their cars after they get them, the paint fades, the rims are grimy, the tires are low performance, and likely rarely get routine service. The vast majority of cars seem to be considered just as transportation, and car manufactures sell huge numbers of really bland, non-engaging cars. I think most people couldn't even say what size rims are on their cars, or even know how many cylinders the engine has.

Alfa doesn't make cars for those people. And there are a lot fewer of us who appreciate "handling' and "performance", and are quite willing to tolerate "quirks" to have such responsive automobiles. I have an '18 QV, and have no need for any upgrades or "improvements". Sometimes, "improvements" to car lines are just to be able have something new to advertise. NV

In my experience I'm amazed that so many men have no idea how much HP their cars have..or even the number of cylinders! Even when brand new!? I feel embarrassed for them so I quickly change the subject.
Yikes, what did you ask the salesman when buying??

Guys around my office get more excited about some new PHEV or Hybrid appliance that rolls into the parking lot..
And I have a fire breathing Ferrari derived monster sitting right outside.

🙄

 

I'm still a newbie with the purchase of our Alfa back in January but I appreciate and love what it represents as far as racing heritage and the unique way it stands apart from other makes. How many of us get excited about the latest Honda Accord? They seemingly change twice a year, they're as throwaway as the latest smart phone offering but somehow they're so relevant with the critics and the general public.

I love lost causes, so maybe Alfas are lost causes but that's okay, we bought it because of what it is--beautiful and amazing to drive, with no stress that it'll be upstaged by newer versions of itself every time we turn around.

 

The Giulia will not see a refresh for awhile… It’s still relevant and not going anywhere. The Giorgio platform isn’t going away anytime soon either.

Maybe this is a semantics issue, but a refresh is definitely coming. LED headlights, front bumper, digital cockpit and more.

SNEAK PEEK: New Details Arrive About The Upcoming 2023 Alfa Romeo Stelvio & Giulia!

Alfa Romeo is currently transitioning its brand into an all-electric lineup by 2027. The recent introduction of the 2023 Alfa Romeo Tonale, marks the first step in that direction, thanks to its mild-hybrid (mHEV) and plug-in hybrid (PHEV) options. As for the brand's more popular Stelvio and...

moparinsiders.com

 

Buy the rumor, sell the news… Alfa Romeo Model Years 24...

Most by now are hopefully aware that there isn’t a mid cycle refresh coming for MY23 Giulia’s/Stelvio’s… STLA announced this with their Estrema press release a little bit ago. The majority of the rumblings from the rumor mills I’ve posted have come to fruition (search through my history)… Edit...

www.giuliaforums.com

Here is my quote on the rumors from the OP… Coming? Yes. Again, not for awhile.

Most by now are hopefully aware that there isn’t a mid cycle refresh coming for MY23 Giulia’s/Stelvio’s… STLA announced this with their Estrema press release a little bit ago. The majority of the rumblings from the rumor mills I’ve posted have come to fruition (search through my history)…

Edit: PR from STLA -

Stellantis Media - Alfa Romeo Rolls Out New, Limited-edition Giulia and Stelvio Estrema Models

Alfa Romeo introduces the limited-edition Giulia Estrema and Stelvio Estrema series. This new offering is the first time Alfa Romeo has created a globally available, limited model.

media.stellantisnorthamerica.com

Photos at the bottom of MY23 Giulia’s and Stelvio’s.

So, today’s rumors I’m selling go a little bit like this for those who think STLA has forgotten about Alfa Romeo and favored Maserati… We all are aware that the Tonale is AR’s big bet (outside of the Giorgio Platform which I rumored two years ago wasn’t dead, and it’s not); but there are bigger bets at stake. Here goes:

• MY24: Stelvio refresh ONLY (hotter selling 2.0L gets the first shot)
• MY24: Lusso Special Edition (new exclusive exterior colors, interior upgrades)
• MY25: Giulia refresh
• MY25: Competizone Special Edition (new exclusive exterior colors, performance upgrades, adding QV components to Veloce)
• MY26: HALO CAR MID-ENGINE RELEASE — 33 Stradale, 32 production released in US limited in other regions, limited; $200K; MC20 tub
• MY27: ALFA GOES BIG ON AN SUV—POSSIBLE THIRD ROW SEATING BIG

No rumors yet on engine, hybrid, etc. or updates / special editions for the QV.

I feel a bit like Ron’s Rides at this point with no video; but I’m BUYING these rumors…

Any others heard similar speculation, or new things, please share here…

 

Refresh? If this is what they're going to do to the Giulia, dear God I wish they'd sell the brand to someone who cares about what an Alfa Romeo is.

One of the nicest things about the front of the Giulia is it's headlights; a beautiful, clean, feline appearance.

If this is actually what they're going to do to it, this is terrible:

Another beautiful and distinctly Italian feature is the excellent instrument cluster.

If this is what they going to change it to, omg just discontinue the car instead of neutering it like this!

Since they're going to go electric, just start with a clean sheet. Don't screw up this jewel that Sergio left us. Upgrade interior materials, add another 50 hp maybe, but don't screw it up visually by trying to make it look trendy.

 

Refresh? If this is what they're going to do to the Giulia, dear God I wish they'd sell the brand to someone who cares about what an Alfa Romeo is.

One of the nicest things about the front of the Giulia is it's headlights; a beautiful, clean, feline appearance.

View attachment 125323

If this is actually what they're going to do to it, this is terrible:

View attachment 125321


Another beautiful and distinctly Italian feature is the excellent instrument cluster.

View attachment 125325

If this is what they going to change it to, omg just discontinue the car instead of neutering it like this!

View attachment 125322

Since they're going to go electric, just start with a clean sheet. Don't screw up this jewel that Sergio left us. Upgrade interior materials, add another 50 hp maybe, but don't screw it up visually by trying to make it look trendy.

It's more surprising to me that they would put out a relatively large revision for only the last year or two of the vehicles lifecycle. What's the point? You're really just alienating pretty much everyone that already owns one, lol.

 

Older guys wanna DRIVE! The younger generation want to be on their phones and let the car drive itself..or take public transit to be on their phones.

That's why we all rushed out to get our drivers license = Freedom!
This generation found their freedom through social media.

 

Older guys wanna DRIVE! The younger generation want to be on their phones and let the car drive itself..or take public transit to be on their phones.

That's why we all rushed out to get our drivers license = Freedom!
This generation found their freedom through social media.

Boy this is true! I got mine ON my 16th birthday. My nieces and nephews all waited until 17 or 18 or longer to actually get it. Each time I asked, they responded with "I'm scared to drive".....

 

I'm not sure if I care how relevant the Gulia is, I head to it ever morning with a smile on my face, my neighbours covet it while not wanting to shift from the Audi /BMW in black or grey, but the Gulia is better to drive and far better to look at. I hear lots of nonsense on how this BMW or Audi is faster /better maybe so but by God they don't look 10 % as good. So regardless I will drive my Gulia till the next salon from Alfa appears , I still have my 156 2.5 form 1999 still love it and it's got 250k plus on the clock

 

I hope so. I'm on the fence about coming out of a Panamera into a Veloce. I drove a very solid G70 3.3T but the buying and service experience is extremely lacking for an outfit that claims to be a luxury brand. I wanted a Quad but I don't need it as a daily with a 997.2 C4S in the garage for fun times. Lucky to have 3 dealers within 20 miles of me so if I find the right build for the right price, I'm hoping the Veloce will be a solid daily until EVs become inevitable.

 

"Well, we're waiting...."

 

AND........ the GR Corolla has something you can't get on a Giulia 2.0t........... a dip stick! What will they think of next?

 

Yeah..but..a Corolla??

C'mon

 

Yeah..but..a Corolla??
C'mon

Hey, it's got a dip stick! What more needs to be said???? 😋

 

Alfa Romeo Giulia will be a cult classic in the future, due to having a very analog driving experience (unheard of in 2022) and being very accessible and enjoyable to drive, as well as having the best styling on the market for both the 2.0L and QV (actually the 2.0L is arguably the cleaner design of the two, but don't tell Imparato I said that).

Is it "relevant"? That really depends on what you mean by "relevance". Some cars remain relevant by continually introducing new software, new features, etc. Hyundai, Benz and Audi are a good example of this, the latest Sonata looks very new and high-tech, but the actual driving experience is quite similar to the Sonata from a decade ago, minus some improvement in NVH. Other car brands remain "relevant" by being the safest pick for non-enthusiasts due to high emphasis on reliability at the expense of driving experience and tech, for instance Honda / Toyota.

For Alfa, and just a couple of other brands (Porsche is another example, and perhaps Mini), "relevance" is determined by one thing: driving dynamics. How does the powertrain perform by both the numbers and by engine response, how does the car handle, how is the suspension set up, how agile and engaging is the transmission? Does the car "feel" special to drive on a backroad or a track? In that case, I would make the argument that Alfa is competitive vs. its peers, but it needs to keep moving, and keep improving on driving dynamics. Not because the Giulia of today is poor, but because that is what it means to stay "relevant"; to continually improve on what your brand excels at. At this point, the Giulia is 7 years into its model life. We only know of a visual refresh coming within the next year or two, but that is arguably not necessary. What Alfa needs to do more than anything, is to make improvements to the car's driving experience - either by transmission, engine, or any number of other improvements, that speak to the enthusiast, rather than visual updates or tech upgrades that are more befitting an Audi than an Alfa.

 

Relevant? Irrelevant? Who cares! I haven't had this much fun in a car in a long time! I've been a long time BMW fan for decades now, just due to their driving dynamics and overall fun factor with 4 doors, but they've all gotten chunky and soft nowadays. Sales just prove most Americans don't like "driving" their cars. This car was made for people that enjoy driving first, with everything else secondary.

I for one, am grateful something like this made it stateside before the inevitable transition to electrics. Drive this thing! Great moments like this don't last forever! I thought cars like this were dead and gone forever! Find a big parking lot, drive 100 miles out of the city and carve up some winding country roads, turn the radio down and stomp the pedal until your hair stands up! Eat bologne sandwiches for a week and burn a whole tank of 93 driving everywhere and nowhere! It's better than therapy. They even call the drivers seat a "cockpit" how badass is that ... Captain?

 

I've had a few vehicles with a HUD, and I've found them utterly useless. First off, if you're wearing polarized sunglasses (and it's hard to find sunglasses that aren't polarized) then you often times can't see the HUD. I also found that having something within my FOV but not in focus to be annoying if not distracting. In my Volvo I was fortunately able to turn it off once and leave it, but in my Mazda I had to turn it off each time. This ultimately led to me "adjusting" it to where it was super dim and so low that I couldn't see it anyways.

In my opinion the Giulia, and really AR in general, has only one big problem - the perception (or misperception) of unreliability. Of course, it doesn't help when JD Power and Consumer Reports are backing up this misconception by ranking AR vehicles low for reliability or, even worse, anticipated reliability. The problem is, I don't know how JDP or CR treats one issue vs. another from a reliability standpoint. JD Power says it "[measures] the level of defects, malfunctions and design flaws experienced by vehicle owners" and that a "higher rating means fewer problems." Let's say Car Model 1 is in three times for: (1) a bad battery; (2) a software issue; and (3) a door rattle. Meanwhile Car Model 2 is in once . . . for a total engine failure. Does this mean Car Model 1 is less reliable than Car Model 2 because it's had three problems while Car Model 2 has only had one problem? I don't know about you, but I'd rather have three little problems than one big one. As for me, I've had just one issue with my '22 - the failure of the heated seats and steering wheel to turn on automatically at startup. Something like that doesn't make the car unreliable, at least not in my book.

At the $50,000 price mark I don't think there's a better luxury/semi-luxury sports sedan out there. Sure, the GR Corolla looks pretty cool, but it doesn't compete with the Giulia; it competes with the Civic Type R, the WRX, and maybe the Golf R, none of which compete with the Giulia (IMHO). If I'm considering the Giulia I'm cross-shopping it with the Audi A4, the BMW 330, the MB C300, and the Genesis G70. The A4's tech is nice, but it's not really that fun to drive. Same with the Benz. The new 3-series is nice enough, but blink and you've missed four of them driving by. It also doesn't provide the same visceral driving experience that the Giulia does. The G70 is an interesting option, because for the same money as a spec'd out AWD Giulia Veloce you can get the 3.3L twin-turbo V6. I've not driven a G70, but I've owned that engine in a Stinger, and it was pretty friggin' phenomenal. The Stinger hauled ass off the line, and it was even better for highway passing (30-50 in 2.6s and 50-70 in 3.4s). It's also quite a bit bigger than the G70, so I can only imagine what the G70 is like to drive. All that said, I'm not a fan of the G70's styling. I don't hate it, but the Giulia's blows it out of the water in terms of looks.

Where the Giulia truly falls short against the competition is in the dealer experience. Audi, MB, and BMW will all have loaners available - at least for warranty work and often times for routine maintenance as well. On the service side, my local dealer (Crown AR) has been pretty good, but loaners are not available. Also - the dealership building is not particularly updated. Interestingly if not unsurprisingly, on the same property and under the same name is a Mercedes dealership (Crown MB), which is in a much nicer building and offers loaners for work that will take more than 1 hour.

So - is the Giulia still good and relevant in 2022? I think it is. Are improvements necessary moving forward? I think so.

 

I've had a few vehicles with a HUD, and I've found them utterly useless. First off, if you're wearing polarized sunglasses (and it's hard to find sunglasses that aren't polarized) then you often times can't see the HUD. I also found that having something within my FOV but not in focus to be annoying if not distracting. In my Volvo I was fortunately able to turn it off once and leave it, but in my Mazda I had to turn it off each time. This ultimately led to me "adjusting" it to where it was super dim and so low that I couldn't see it anyways.

Thanks. A real HUD is supposed to have optics that make the readings appear focused when the driver is focused is on the road. It is also supposed to be in the line of sight. Apparently aircraft style HUD is too expensive, which is what I expected.

One related thing Alfa could improve is on the RACE center instrument display, replace the totally useless compass reading with far more useful exterior temperature reading so that one can get a frosty temperature warning. (FWIW: the snowflake warning light never worked in my car and apparently not in most other Giulia).

Also restore the original and unique BUZZ-BUZZ-BUZZ sound for the lane departure warning.

 

I think the main issue for the Giulia is that AR missed a huge opportunity for a more significant refresh back in 2020. That was literally the perfect time to do it as it was smack in the middle of the cars lifecycle and right when other competitors were unveiling new models. Instead they chose to update the center console and infotainment (barely), big, big mistake.

However NOW they want to do the refresh that they should have done two years ago? Good luck attracting any new buyers now that the cats out of the bag on that one.

 

I think the main issue for the Giulia is that AR missed a huge opportunity for a more significant refresh back in 2020. That was literally the perfect time to do it as it was smack in the middle of the cars lifecycle and right when other competitors were unveiling new models. Instead they chose to update the center console and infotainment (barely), big, big mistake.

However NOW they want to do the refresh that they should have done two years ago? Good luck attracting any new buyers now that the cats out of the bag on that one.

Alfa had their plans and funding curtailed in mid-to-late 2019 by then CEO Michael Manley (who was appointed in July 2019, when Sergio stepped down due to health reasons). He favored Maserati instead; the results of which can be seen today..... MC20, Grecale.

IMHO..... Development on the GTV was probably wrapped up ahead of schedule and marketed as the GTA/m instead. And they probably didnt even have funds left over to get it certified for a N.America release.

In the long storied history of this brand, that is Michael Manley's(wiki) contribution; priming Alfa Romeo for the PSA takeover. IMHO