I'm personally still confident that they're going to be okay in the long run. This is just a set-back but I really don't think they're too worried. I think I even read an article a week or two ago where FCA said they weren't too worried about what's going and they'll be able to make things work.

 

FCA rumored to sell off Maserati, Alfa Romeo to tackle billions in debt...http://www.motor1.com/news/132282/fca-could-sell-alfa-maserati/

 

It would be amazing for Ferrari to buy Alfa Romeo, perhaps even Maserati. Not only will help the Alfa's reputation, but bring profit to Ferrari. Alfa Romeo is already using some of the engineering, production plants, and components from Ferrari. It would become like the Lamborghini and Audi relationship. Just as how FCA managed to separate Ferrari into it's own entity - they should migrate both Alfa & Maserati to be merged with Ferrari. We all know that Ferrari has been making one the best engines in the world, just recently winning the best international engine of the year with the 488. So Ferrari will help with it's own name trickled down to Alfa & Maserati gaining more customers, brand loyalty, and trust. Especially with the dealership network. Currently the dealerships are horrible under FCA. They have a lack of customer service, knowledge, and organization (except for @DaneARFOM). It's sad to see Maserati and Alfa being sold by FIAT sales team, as most of them do not have the capability to handle such professionalism.

 

I do not want to be tacky, but I must say the Fort Worth dealership my wife and I visited this week did not impress me in the least. The word that came to mind as we left was slimy. This location has recently changed ownership. I hope improvement will soon be seen.

In a recent interview with with the Detroit Free Press

http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2016/11/17/alfa-romeo-america-return/93996192/

the new head of Maserati and Alfa Romeo in the US Reid Bigland said "More and more of those dealers are being dualed with Maserati, which is a pretty good fit, from a product portfolio perspective," Bigland said. "We will grow that network over the next 12, 18, or 24 months, once the cars start to get out there."

As he was appointed back in late May I assume he was not in on the initial decision to use Fiat Dealers. It looks like he sees this as a mistake.

 

I think it was a mistake for FIAT to have a join venture with Maserati in the dealership is a mistake to begin with. My local Ferrari dealership many years ago had Maserati but sold it off after the separation between FCA

Maserati and Alfa Romeo should have been opened own its own or with Ferrari

 

We've all read the reports that FCA is finically in trouble.

I haven't read any credible reports that FCA is financially in trouble. If you spend too much time on message boards, you might certainly get that impression, but consider the source. For whatever reason, there are a lot of people that don't have a clue that like to bash the company and its strategy. Marchionne has honestly said that he thinks there should be consolidation in the industry in order to improve returns on the huge capital investments necessary to bring a new vehicle to market. The internet weirdos have interpreted that to mean the company is for sale, completely ignoring that Marchionne has also said that FCA can go it alone if necessary.


FCA has more debt than its competitors, which means that its future carries more risk. However, there is no imminent demise that should impact any current buying decision. Honestly, as a consultant in the auto industry for the past 20+ years, I'd be more concerned about VW, which is spending billions to settle its emissions fraud issue, and that's only the tip of the iceberg.

 

I think what stemmed a lot of this FCA being financially in trouble is when the Wagoneer got put on pause. Everyone immediately jumped to that it's because they didn't have the financials for it and needed to make changes in order to get the finances for it.

 

FCA has capital constraints. They're going to be particular about new product plans, and it's going to be fluid, based on changes in the market. That doesn't mean they are about to fail.

 

If there's one thing they suck at its audits and from what I have been seeing and reading, Hyundai and the Japanese brands have been excelling in this area. Those same Korean and Japanese dealers have the best dealership experience.

 

Technically shouldn't ALFA also be in all caps?

 

A.L.F.A. was initially an acronym yes, however, Nicola Romeo renamed the company Alfa Romeo in 1914.

 

Bettenhausen in Tinley Park IL was easily my most favorable dealer experience ever.

Other dealers over the years have been represented BMW, Ford, GM, and Fiat/Maserati.

 

FCA accused of emissions cheating just like VW for its 3.0 diesel, I'm not sure if FCA has the capital to survive. They better hope Trump's EPA will go easy on them. http://www.motor1.com/news/133461/fiat-chrysler-diesel-emissions/

 

FCA accused of emissions cheating just like VW for its 3.0 diesel, I'm not sure if FCA has the capital to survive. They better hope Trump's EPA will go easy on them. http://www.motor1.com/news/133461/fiat-chrysler-diesel-emissions/

Accused is not equal to guilty. Obama's administration is bound and determined to go down swinging. Let's hope cooler heads prevail.


Also note this is not "just like" the VW 3.0L diesel issue at all. It is alleged that the VW 3.0L diesel only meets the legal emission requirements in a “temperature conditioning” mode that is automatically switched on during testing conditions, while at all other times, including during normal vehicle operation, the vehicles operate in a 'normal mode' that permits NOx emissions of up to nine times the federal standard. VW has admitted the violations.


The complaint against the FCA diesel is that FCA failed to disclose certain engine management software. FCA claims the software is legal. There's a huge difference.

 

Fulfillment

After enjoying the QV for a few weeks, I suggest that we consider the risks that we assume by NOT buying an Alfa Romeo Giulia.

Possible risks:

- Lack of fulfillment.
- Slave to German technology.
- Attempting to function as as a pure rationalist while retaining an ounce of humanity.


Other risks?

 

After enjoying the QV for a few weeks, I suggest that we consider the risks that we assume by NOT buying an Alfa Romeo Giulia.

Possible risks:

- Lack of fulfillment.
- Slave to German technology.
- Attempting to function as as a pure rationalist while retaining an ounce of humanity.


Other risks?

I love it.

In many ways that's how I feel about my SAAB NG9-5 Aero. Sure I took a HUGE depreciation hit (54K new in 2010 now worth < 10K) and the warranty was null and void after year, but the engineering and ergonomics of the car were incredible and it was a shame it was not widely noticed by the automotive world.

What does suck is the lack of replacement parts. Some insurance companies "totaled" cars with simple repairs because the replacement part was not available. I actually purchased the last rear "Light Bar" in North America in 2013 until the part became available the next year. They did not have replacement windshields for about 2-years, etc.

 

U.S. SUES FCA OVER DIESEL EMISSIONS:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/u-s-sues-fca-diesel-emissions/

 

Yep - the ongoing assault against business (jobs destruction) as they piss around over the stupid emissions regulations that are pretty insane as currently written.

 

I don't care at all if FCA makes it or not 3 to 5 years from now...in the meantime, I will LOVE my Giulia and have a blast! Life is too short to worry about if FCA will make it or not 3 or 5 years from now.

 

Folks,

As an experienced Ferrari owner now for several years, let me give you my take on the the current FCA situation. Here on the automile in Norwood, south of Boston, the closest dealer to downtown, Ferrari and Maserati have been paired up since I ventured down to the Mazda Gallery to buy my Miata in 2000. Probably longer. It has been a good match. They just finished a renovation of both sides of the showroom.

I am almost positive that Ferrari was sold in an ipo to RAISE capital for FCA, especially AFTER the acquisition of Chrysler. All of those "Amurcan" muscle car guys asking and bragging about Hemi's have to admit now that they are Fiats! Well in name anyway, haha. Chrysler was fouled up, Fiat bought them. So now Fiat, like Mercedes Benz before, have an infusion of Mopar engine technology. I think MB capitalized as evident in the 3 year WDC dominance in F1. The Chrysler Crossfire was the only thing to come out of that deal before the change to V6 turbo hybrids in F1. Now at least, Chrysler Dodge has got the retro bug and are doing pretty well. Fiat Abarth is doing fine. The Mazda/Alfa rumor turned out to be Mazda/Fiat. That's a decent match with the 124. Incidentally, some secret facia drawings we saw on Miata.net were not Miata but Fiat fascias, with a little more chibi cute touches than actual production. A couple of the Alfa dealers are paried with Maserati around the suburbs. I am close with the local Central Fiat Alfa here in Norwood. While I have heard complaints about the staff and facility, David has been on top of things the whole time and is a great car guy. His boss, the owner I think, was generous with stories of tracking the Quads at corporate events and enjoyed trash talking the M3s and such. I do not believe Alfa Romeo is in trouble at it's base. Setting records at the Nordschleife does not compute with that. The marketing, ordering and dealership end, however, could use some work. Advertising is great but the practical network and delivery end is showing weakness. But it's new and it needs to improve. I like the pairing with Fiat, only because it gives me some breathing room between my Ferrari collector car and a more practical fun car for life and retirement. Not an actual daily driver but close to it. I can keep the Miata as a track car and beater as long as it lasts. Probably better than trying to sell or trade it. It's fine in the snow and less miles outside of winter will probably help. Alfa Romeo and Maserati may make some moves but you have heard about the Ghibli right? It's even more Chrysler than the Giulia. The Giulia is new and well engineered. A few tweaks and you will see the landscape change. Just like the Fiat 500. Any Mopar guys give you the treatment about "Fiat" and you can tell them to kiss cinquecento butt.

 

My local ALFA dealers carry FIAT, ALFA and Maserati under the same roof. One even has Jeep. I don't see how you sell and service a $20K and $200K car in the same dealership. Very different customers and expectations. I can see ALFA and Maserati paired up, but Fiat??

 

Where do you Begin with this???

first off FCA isn't going anywhere anytime soon...much too much at stake financially & politically.
that said...the automobile industry has changed dramatically in the last 20 years...some were ahead of the curve..other's got caught with their pants down...GM consolidated the brand by eliminating Oldsmobile/Pontiac...
the German 800lb gorilla is named Volkswagen-Porsche-Audi....a consolidation that started in 1966 when Audi was acquired by them and in 2011 when Porsche was wholly acquired by VW....
Ford is in ****...having just nicely fired their CEO...
Marchionne has always known the end game was to partner with someone once Fiat took over the remaining interest in Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep brand. That the Jeep brand could not keep Chrysler/Dodge afloat on its own...problem is finding the right suitor....can anyone say Tata??
As far as the emissions issue....big difference between what Volkwagen did than what FCA is being accused of...pay the fine and move on...simple gvt. money grab IMHO.
Airbag issues belong to anyone who used Takata..which was almost everyone...
while I feel for the SAAB board member here....SAAB was a dying brand to begin with in the USA unfortunately...not that they didn't make well engineered cars...they were quirky/niche` cars that had a small customer base.best year for them was like 48k sold...they picked the wrong partner to save them GM killed them..
is Alfa/Maser better off as a stand alone? not sold out of FIAT or Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealers?? ABSO-F'in lutely!....the buyer being courted from BMW, Merc, Audi is used to a different kind of dealer experience....especially from the service standpoint....moreover new platform/models require techs with serious training..as has been demonstrated time over....
Don't think anyone should be freaking out here....remember when a little sports car company was literally on the balz of the their a$$ and they made a thing called a Cayenne??...I'm willing to bet that the Stelvio IF it does not have all the silly gremlins in it...will mark a turning point for Alfa...it will literally become the horse that pulls the cart...
Time will bare us out either way
till then...drive it like you stole it..!
Salve
M

 

We've all read the reports that FCA is finically in trouble. That only the Ram and Jeep brands are worth saving. That FCA cannot find a partner to merge with. Before purchasing the Giulia, is Alfa Romeo's long term health a factor in your overall decision?

I ask these questions as someone who was burned by the SAAB-Spyker debacle. I purchased a new 2010 9-5 aero and by the end of 2011 the company was out of business and all my warranty's were worthless. Also the resale value of my car (MSRP of 54K) tanked and parts for the car quickly became an issue (and I was still paying the car off). Only 2800 made it to the US (a true unicorn). So I do worry about Alfa's long term prospects in the ultra competitive automotive market.

Would you accept a job offer from FCA, if interesting work and competitive financially?

 

Yes it is but not for the reason posted by the OP. I believe that the incompetence of the dealership network is a far greater risk.

 

Dealers

I guess I should feel fortunate to be in NY because Alfredo's in Larchmont and Westbury in Long Island are very competent and well run.....Re: "is buying an Alfa Romeo risky" and comparing it to SAAB's demise...Very different issues here and no direct comparison....SAAB was purchased by GM who had no love and / or respect for SAAB's heritage and fans....they did everything they could to de-SAAB the SAAB...Alfa is loved by FCA because FCA knows of Alfa's historical pedigree and it's tremendous past (something SAAB never had)....So, feel safe, buy ALFA, snub the Germans...they're boring and ubiquitous....if you want to see yourself coming and going, buy a BMW....if you want to feel yourself going...FORZA ALFA BABY...

 

I guess I should feel fortunate to be in NY because Alfredo's in Larchmont and Westbury in Long Island are very competent and well run.....Re: "is buying an Alfa Romeo risky" and comparing it to SAAB's demise...Very different issues here and no direct comparison....SAAB was purchased by GM who had no love and / or respect for SAAB's heritage and fans....they did everything they could to de-SAAB the SAAB...Alfa is loved by FCA because FCA knows of Alfa's historical pedigree and it's tremendous past (something SAAB never had)....So, feel safe, buy ALFA, snub the Germans...they're boring and ubiquitous....if you want to see yourself coming and going, buy a BMW....if you want to feel yourself going...FORZA ALFA BABY...

Uh not so sure about Larchmont and I received the first Quad from them. My ordeal is well documented here. They were very good on the sell side. They were overwhelmed on the service side when my Quad developed a serious issue that they could not repair after an extended stay and constant back and forth with Alfa engineers.
John was great to deal with and Mr Alfredo was true to his word on the sell side. When the car was having drive ability issues I never got a call from Mr Alfredo or the manager. poor Steve had to try and deal with everything. A nice young man but clearly in over his head on the Quad.

 

I feel really sorry for Alfa fans in the US. In Poland, which has never been their primary market, the dealer network has been present for the last 20 years or so, selling and servicing 156s, 159s, Giuliettas etc. I am not sure what percentage of revenues they expect from US vs other markets, but here the dealers should not be an issue. I understand that buying a highly sophisticated model, like the Q and not being able to properly service it is a huge pain in the a**.

As for the risk of buying an Alfa -- I think the situation is slightly different vs SAAB. FCA is now making a big investment to revive Alfa as one of their premium brands. They have invested into the new platform and have several models lined up. They are managed by a smart CEO, they have no history of several ownership changes and general instability like SAAB had had before the NG9-5.
However -- Giulia Q is a new model, built on a new platform. It's difficult to predict the reliability and service cost. What I'm doing to survive in this situation is to lease the car in what effectively is a long-term rental agreement, where the leasing company bears all the service costs in return for a flat monthly fee (ca. 70USD).

 

I worked with a dealer here in the Bay Area (north of San Francisco) to order my Ti. The dealership sold Maseratis, Bentleys , Aston Martin and Alfas. Great experience - the salesman knew the car well. Now I just have to wait on delivery.

 

That is what EVERYONE has been saying since the beginning! Alfa needs to be paired to high-line marque dealers...
Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep are fine brands...but they don't cross market with the Alfa Romeo buyer...especially in the service end...
Your asking a dealer who sells predominately domestic brands to mechanically service a brand new platform vehicle whose drive train was designed by Ferrari engineers....
IF Alfa is sold exclusively through Maser-Ferrati dealers....I believe consumer confidence will rise...
Again only time will bear this all out.
Salve
M

 

I'm still confident that they're going to be okay in the long run

 

 

Buying owning and servicing has always been a niche market and a bit risky. Doing it for 42 years now. Don’t think FIAT would allow to fail worldwide but US market never going to be strong unless they make a QV pickup. Lol