I wonder if anyone has considered Converting their Giulia to Manual.

All the parts would be available but I wonder how hard/costly it would be

 

I wonder if anyone has considered Converting their Giulia to Manual.

All the parts would be available but I wonder how hard/costly it would be

You can't. Period.


The law reads as follows:


Before you decide to import a vehicle or vehicle parts into the United States, you should ensure that it conforms to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Department of Transportation (DOT) regulations. Both the DOT and the EPA advise that although a nonconforming car may be conditionally admitted, the modification required to bring it into compliance may be so extensive and costly for vehicles that were not originally manufactured for the U.S. market. It is highly recommended that these prohibitions and modifications be investigated before a vehicle's purchased for parts and/or importation.
Importation of a passenger car, truck, trailer, motorcycle, bus, or multi-purpose passenger vehicle (MPV) that was not originally manufactured to comply with U.S. or Canadian safety standards. Importers of motor vehicles must file an HS-7 Declaration form (available at ports of entry or at http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import) at the time a vehicle is imported to identify the basis for the vehicle's entry into the United Sates.
As a general rule, a motor vehicle less than 25 years old must comply with all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards (FMVSS) to be imported on a permanent basis. Vehicles (other than motorcycles) manufactured to comply with the FMVSS will have a certification label affixed by the original manufacturer in the area of the driver-side door.
If it's less than 25 years old, it HAS to meet DOT regulations, the manual transmission cars did not, so they are not allowed to be imported.
The caveat here is that you probably (read expensive and could still get you in trouble) could order the transmission and all related parts to convert it to manual, but depending on your State of Residence, if they title it as a manual car, it might trickle over to DOT, who could find a way to fine you for it. Not saying it CANNOT be done, but it is a very good way to get yourself in all kinds of issues at the Federal level.

It would be much easier to move to Italy 🇮🇹 and buy the car there. Why not?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think there is no manual in North America because it didn't pass the North American safety standards? Which means even if you managed to import one I don't think it would be legal to insure/drive

 

I have never heard this. Reference please.

 

You can't. Period.


The law reads as follows:


Before you decide to import a vehicle or vehicle parts into the United States, you should ensure that it conforms to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Department of Transportation (DOT) regulations. Both the DOT and the EPA advise that although a nonconforming car may be conditionally admitted, the modification required to bring it into compliance may be so extensive and costly for vehicles that were not originally manufactured for the U.S. market. It is highly recommended that these prohibitions and modifications be investigated before a vehicle's purchased for parts and/or importation.
Importation of a passenger car, truck, trailer, motorcycle, bus, or multi-purpose passenger vehicle (MPV) that was not originally manufactured to comply with U.S. or Canadian safety standards. Importers of motor vehicles must file an HS-7 Declaration form (available at ports of entry or at http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import) at the time a vehicle is imported to identify the basis for the vehicle's entry into the United Sates.
As a general rule, a motor vehicle less than 25 years old must comply with all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards (FMVSS) to be imported on a permanent basis. Vehicles (other than motorcycles) manufactured to comply with the FMVSS will have a certification label affixed by the original manufacturer in the area of the driver-side door.
If it's less than 25 years old, it HAS to meet DOT regulations, the manual transmission cars did not, so they are not allowed to be imported.
The caveat here is that you probably (read expensive and could still get you in trouble) could order the transmission and all related parts to convert it to manual, but depending on your State of Residence, if they title it as a manual car, it might trickle over to DOT, who could find a way to fine you for it. Not saying it CANNOT be done, but it is a very good way to get yourself in all kinds of issues at the Federal level.

 

Unless you manage to get your hands on a qv which was a test mule, or the ones from autoshows i remeber first time i saw a qv in chicago autoshow all of them were manuals

 

No. Not going to happen. I am researching bringing used boxes over when they become more available for conversation. I'd like to be the first but I need to research further. Most likely it will be a difficult venture and I will end up keeping the auto.

 

I would imagine the mechanical work and parts would not be insurmountable, but what about the software? With as much trouble as we seem to have getting the seemingly simple software glitches taken care of I can't imagine the nightmare it would be trying to get the control units talking together properly. As most seem to be tied to the cars VIN a simple swap doesn't seem viable without access to the factory WiTech tool.

 

Thanks. The only reason I'm even asking this question is because they must have gone pretty far with the approval process, enough to give me hope that a registered importer like Wallace Labs could obtain type approval without going through the full crash/emissions/etc. process. Also, my wife is into the idea, and I like making her feel validated

 

There is no point really to think about the manual. I have taken it twice for a test drive and it doesn’t compare with the auto. The auto is superb, both in performance, driving and ergonomics. The manual is a bit clumsy for that car.

 

I guess one aspect to consider is if it’s a right hand drive manual that would most likely throw off any American driver who is use to left hand driving and the learning process would negate any benefits IMO. Would be very amusing though. Left hand shifting lol

 

These are produced for UK, Japan etc. in Italy and mainland Europe, QVs that are manual are let hand drive.

 

I bought a 2018 Audi A4 with a manual last year because Audi was discontinuing all manuals in 2019. Surprisingly, Audi only sold about 1,275 2018 A4's with a manual transmission in the entire US market! And even fewer of them were sold in 2017. It clearly did not make economic sense for AR to sell the manual version of the QV in the US market.

I enjoy switching back and forth between my QV and the Audi A4. And it's pretty cool owning A4 that is so rare!

 

I bought my '18 Mustang GT for similar reasons in that I wanted a modern NA car with a manual before they disappear. As I like what Ford did with the '18 update to the Mustang I grabbed one of those. Though I do enjoy the engine and 6-spd I found that it isn't the joy I anticipated; when driving the Giulia I don't really miss the GT but when driving the GT I sort of miss the Giulia. Makes me think I should have spent the money upgrading to a QV. First world problems as they say. I'll drive the GT a few years and then maybe trade it for another Alfa. I have to admit I don't really care any longer about the lack of a manual I love the ZF 8-spd so much. In principle though, I get the love for manuals. I've driven them all my life and have always preferred them, all things being equal, though that seems to no longer apply with the Giulia's ZF.

 

I have only driven manual shift cars for the past 30 years and I can say the auto ZF transmission has not made me miss a manual drive one bit.

 

Exactly. The QV is my first ever auto car and the shifts are so clever and swift that they make manual a thing of the past. Far better than any BMW auto gearbox too,. My wife had two auto BMWs and I know what I’m talking about.

 

Pretty sure I recall Chris Harris driving/reviewing a manual. He didn't like it. The manual, not the car.

 

I have a manual transmission QV. I don‘t think those with the auto tranny are missing much. Shifting isn't great especially down into second. However, I don‘t seem to get the delay from launch that many speak about.

 

While I'm proud of my ability to heel-toe shift, I don't subscribe to the "manual or death" mentality of some.



On other forums I've seen people flat refuse to even consider the Giulia because of the lack of a manual. It would be a shame for anyone to not have the pleasure of owning a fantastic automobile like this based on digging their heels in over a manual. The auto rev matching while not perfect does a pretty darn good job of it and still makes me smile that it does it at all.


I think the sales of manual cars where they were available is the most telling statistic. Those customers that were interested had the ability to drive manual and auto cars back to back and overwhelmingly chose the auto.


I'm lucky enough to still have my 500 Abarth and Milano Verde when I want "row my own", but I like being able to focus on other aspects of my driving skills in my Giulia rather than exactly how I'm going contort my size 13's in the footwell of my Milano to heel-toe. It ain't easy folks!

 

I'm thinking of getting a Fiat Spider to satisfy my shifting jones.

 

and when you aren't using it, put it in the trunk of your Giulia and that will solve the no spare tire issue

 

Thanks @MacGeek for sharing that info, and everyone else for your thoughts/experiences. Where did those manual US-spec cars end up? I'm guessing sent back to Italy, crushed, or still at FCA corporate, not to be resold? To those of you who have other manual cars, I'm fortunate to have 3 manual classic cars too, but I have two little kids, so most driving requires the new car with 49 airbags. I'm not manual-or-death - the other path I'm considering is a 2.0 with upgrades to improve off-the-line response and sound, but I will admit it's hard to let go after 28 years of shifting myself.

To be honest, I haven't even driven a Quadrifoglio with the *automatic*. Ron Tonkin here in Portland and Walnut Creek Alfa Romeo in California both refused to give test drives, so I can only base my assumptions on what my week with a 2.0 car was like. Wait, Tonkin would give a test drive, but only after going through the full purchase approval process, which reminds me of that time in the late 90s where I went to test drive a Neon (first car), and the salesguy drove me around the block and then wanted to know if I wanted to buy the car. I got a VW Golf instead. I'm reluctant to waste more time going to a third dealer a 3-hour drive or a flight away, even though as you can see on my sig, I'm not afraid to spend time on Alfas.

Okay, feeling better with that off my chest.

 

"However, I do want a GT 350 in a manual or even a '19 MX5 in a manual to play around with. There is something special about flicking through the gears even though it is not the fastest or most practical solution."

A '19 MX-5 is on my "potential toys of the future" list; I understand the improved engine power is perfect for the car now, with a higher red line to boot. With the "ND2" Mazda's got a future classic no doubt. I couldn't imagine having one of those without a manual no matter how good autos become.

 

I have been driving a MT6 Giulia Q since November 2016.
Why MT? There were no AT8 Giulia Q at that time and I didn't want to wait a few months for the new, oncoming ATs
IMO the Giulia Q manual gear (ZF S6-53) has some bright and dark sides that I would describe as a "three stage" behaviour.
In the first stage, up to ten minutes after startup, it makes a distinct, mid pitched howling sound, the gearshift is not "precise" and shifting requires some...muscles.
In the second stage everything is fine, you can shift using two fingers, no strange sounds or vibrations, perfect!
Finally, if you drive your Giulia as she should be driven >, a low pitched, rattling noise appears at idle.
This rattling partially disappears when you press the clutch pedal, but not completely and sometimes it becomes a growling sound at the very beginning of any acceleration.

I know at least two other Q owners that describe the same behaviour of their manual transmission.
I guess (and it's just a guessing) that it could be related to the transmission fluid temperature/viscosity.

At the beginning of 2017 my dealer called the AR inspectors. They finally came to hear it and stated that it was "normal" and decided for a transmission fluid change that did...nothing...

Well, since then I have driven for 35.000 miles with no problems at all and it has become my favorite Giulia's quirk
:grin2:

 

I have been driving a MT6 Giulia Q since November 2016.
Why MT? There were no AT8 Giulia Q at that time and I didn't want to wait a few months for the new, oncoming ATs
IMO the Giulia Q manual gear (ZF S6-53) has some bright and dark sides that I would describe as a "three stage" behaviour.
In the first stage, up to ten minutes after startup, it makes a distinct, mid pitched howling sound, the gearshift is not "precise" and shifting requires some...muscles.
In the second stage everything is fine, you can shift using two fingers, no strange sounds or vibrations, perfect!
Finally, if you drive your Giulia as she should be driven /forum/images/GiuliaForums/smilies/tango_face_devil.png, a low pitched, rattling noise appears at idle.
This rattling partially disappears when you press the clutch pedal, but not completely and sometimes it becomes a growling sound at the very beginning of any acceleration.

I know at least two other Q owners that describe the same behaviour of their manual transmission.
I guess (and it's just a guessing) that it could be related to the transmission fluid temperature/viscosity.

At the beginning of 2017 my dealer called the AR inspectors. They finally came to hear it and stated that it was "normal" and decided for a transmission fluid change that did...nothing...

Well, since then I have driven for 35.000 miles with no problems at all and it has become my favorite Giulia's quirk
/forum/images/GiuliaForums/smilies/tango_face_grin.png

I don‘t have the rattling you describe but there is the howl which goes away once the car warms up. For me the problem is second gear. It is a two step process to downshift into second. I Have to shift it into neutral briefly before putting into second. Ie I can‘t downshift straight into second. Do you experience anything like that? I have mostly gotten used to it.

 

Thanx man, appreciate it ! Car is heavily modified, not only engine-wise, but also in- and exterior! As you might have guessed, front splitter is mainly KOSHI carbon parts, although the Italian flag over there isn't off course.. Biscione wrap on the hood was custom made, sizewise... There are a lot PISCINE wraps around , but just couldn't get it in the right size... Should you be interested in all the carbon parts in the interior as well, just posted some pics of that in the MY GIULIA PICS thread off those.. ;-)

 

What have you done to the engine?

 

This topic reminds me of a news story I read many years ago regarding Paul Allen and Bill Gates (founders of Microsoft). Back in the day when the Porsche 959 was 'the car' to have, both purchased one only to find out they were not road legal in the US. So, if those 2 people with considerable resources (that's PC speak for filthy rich) couldn't get a non-US car registered for road use, I'm thinking it's not something one would want to pursue. But there is a bright side - after the car is 25 years old the government seems to loosen the regulations...but by then I'm sure all the cars will be running on AAA cells and gas will be a scarce commodity. Anyway, with Alfa dropping the manuals, I am thinking the QF with a stick shift will be THE ONE worth some coin in the future.


Years ago I was interested in buying a Montreal and there was a gentleman in Miami that used to import them. At that time the cars were old enough that (IIRC) they were exempt from EPA regulations but there were still a few 'safety' items the car needed. One was a seat belt warning light (buzzer?), and I think there was some other regulation regarding the headlight switch. Unfortunately I never did go though with the deal. *sigh*

 

This topic reminds me of a news story I read many years ago regarding Paul Allen and Bill Gates (founders of Microsoft). Back in the day when the Porsche 959 was 'the car' to have, both purchased one only to find out they were not road legal in the US. So, if those 2 people with considerable resources (that's PC speak for filthy rich) couldn't get a non-US car registered for road use, I'm thinking it's not something one would want to pursue.

This is why sometimes people register the vehicle with farm plates.....


This has gotten off topic but if the car is substantially the same (same DOT approved headlights, EPA emissions, same engine, same crash protections, etc) in the Euro version then the DOT may well approve it (you can read the federal documents on the requisite website). That said the days of '80s grey importing are over and the DOT is more persnickity. If this was a $250K Ferrari it might be worth attempting to import but given that there's a big cash outlay for the importation process - AND a chance it will be denied and need to be shipped back and sold abroad, no one in their right mind will bother importing a Euro manual QV....

 

Is driving one across the border from Canada not an option or are they not allowed there either?

 

It is harder to make a modern manual transmission vehicle pass smog, due to the driver having control of more stuff.

 

Was there a MT oif the 2.0 version or just the Q? If yes, was it the same ZF box? curious
are bell housings the same AT v MT? MTs are similar to BMW 3's, would think bell is different
This is for a project car conversion, not a stock application fwiw Thanks

 

There was not a manual with the 2.0T engine in any markets.

 

I didn't really care about having a manual giulia or even a qv until I saw that the manual has the classic also quirk of needing to double clutch to shift into 2nd. I grew up with that move on my 76 spider and would probably fall in love with a manual qv immediately. Sorry if it's been a disappointment for those who paid big money for their track machine... But I'm jealous

 

Just put the shifter in D, slap to the left and always use the paddles? To me its a great compromise with the advantage of the car shifting to 1st when stopped--when i forget--instead of staying in 2nd after I down shifted to stop. All of my other current and previous sports cars have been manual. Its the way I drive. The only learning curve is using paddles instead of shifter and clutch. The Giulia even blips the throttle on downshifts for you----