In the old days, we didn't have rev limiters that would prevent the engine from self destructing. It was easy to over rev an unloaded engine way past it's known reline and then the valves would hit the pistons. Should I mention throwing a rod? There was a time that red line was 4000 rpm, and it wasn't even making any power by then. Ahh, the good old days. Do I feel right about sitting there at redline waiting for her to self destruct? Oh he!! no!


Back to the main feature...


Today I put 50 miles on her in the canyons, D mode, Manual shift all the way. Not an issue. Because of traffic, I couldn't drive as hard as I really wanted. I definitely have more motor than suspension.

Yesterday I put 40 miles on, partly N mode, Auto shift, partly D mode Manual shift. No issues.

90 miles in total without issue.

In auto shift (D mode), she does feel smoother now, easier to throttle now. This is better for heavy city traffic, but, that why I went with the P2/P1 Dual Mode. It depends on driving style really. If I'm just being lazy, the trans will up-shift to lower the revs and then the turbo de-spools. If I floor it, she takes a few moments to up-shift two, three, or four gears and spool before feeling the oomph. But, the auto shift will run out into the red before shifting.

On the other hand, if I continue to drive spiritedly, she stays up a gear and spooled.

If I'm in manual shift (D mode), she will stay on the ready. Of course I probably don't let the RPM drop below 2500 or 3000.

On that note, I think it's doing what AR wants and what most automatic transmissions do. It's up to the driver to decide how they want to drive. I think if Toby gives it instant on-demand torque, it will probably make the car nervous and high strung. But, this give credence to being able to choose N P1 mode, drive-ability.

On a side note, it would really be great if Toby could figure out how to make the active suspension button work in N mode. And, can you make the active suspension stiffer in D mode? Two questions there.

On another side note, now that I feel better about the stability of my new tune, I'm going to the track this weekend. It's a driving school with the Alfa Club. We get two days of skid pad, go-kart track, and a short, tight training track. It will work the P2 tune and DTC as well as the suspension and brakes, etc, etc. Don't know if I can get any videos or not. Will definitely have a report of some sort by Monday morning.

 

Back to the main feature...


Today I put 50 miles on her in the canyons, D mode, Manual shift all the way. Not an issue. Because of traffic, I couldn't drive as hard as I really wanted. I definitely have more motor than suspension.

Yesterday I put 40 miles on, partly N mode, Auto shift, partly D mode Manual shift. No issues.

90 miles in total without issue.

Good to hear Racer Z! Do you think it was how you handled the "rev to 6500" part of the install? I've got about 150 mi on my tune right now. Did some spirited D mode, manual shifter to red line a couple of times today. Everything still good.. no CEL, no blinking lights, all appears normal. I'm very pleased. I've decided to keep my handheld and cable in the car for awhile longer, just in case something develops and I have to re-install "stock" to get home :smile2:. I don't think that will be the case though. I'm confident now that the tune is stable. Time will tell ...

 

Now here is where it gets tricky, and where I think some of the problems are being created (something about the car does not like this if you do it any other way):

- After a series of Dash/On off prompts, the handheld tells me to start the engine, and press ok.
- Start engine, press ok.
- Warm up progress bar proceeds to fill
- Once done, handheld prompts me to "Rev to 6500 RPM, going back to idle, 3 times". There is a loading bar at the bottom that is essentially timing this procedure.

- A few things here: When the car is first started, it will only allow revs to 6000rpm for a certain amount of time (this is for engine warmup, coolant warmup, catalyst warming, etc, etc, not just any one thing). After this period is over, it can rev higher now that we have changed the RPM redline.
- The way that we all perform this procedure here at the shop: rev slowly to 6000rpm, and let it touch the rev limiter for a second or two once it is reached. Also, starting the rev from an idle rpm, the pedal should be fully depressed to the floor by the time you reach redline, it should push off the rev limiter. Then let off, and allows the rpms to go back idle, and remain there for 5-10 seconds. Perhaps I did not explain this thoroughly enough in the beginning.

So back to the next step:

- We begin revving to 6000rpm just as I described above.
- We did this 3 times. However, the flashing CEL was still present.
- I looked down at our time loading bar, and saw that we still had more than half of the allotted time left.
- I decided to rev a 4th time, and on this attempt, the flashing CEL went away. This was still revving to 6000rpm.

Ok, Toby talks about the revving process to clear CELs and codes (errors). Lets get beyond the free rev at redline paranoia we all have (self included).

My experience has been different even though I try to follow this.

- The way that we all perform this procedure here at the shop: rev slowly to 6000rpm, and let it touch the rev limiter for a second or two once it is reached. Also, starting the rev from an idle rpm, the pedal should be fully depressed to the floor by the time you reach redline, it should push off the rev limiter. Then let off, and allows the rpms to go back idle, and remain there for 5-10 seconds. Perhaps I did not explain this thoroughly enough in the beginning.

My throttle has barely moved and the RPM rises too fast. It reaches redline, then I finish pressing the pedal all the way. I have at least 2/3 range to go until I find the floor. I have to be very careful in order to keep the rev-up process slow as in the video.

But, I drive exclusively in D mode, so I do my install in D mode. Doing the install in N mode sounds reasonable. I'll try to remember this the next time I need to flash the ECU.

 

Regarding error P0039, the service manual lists a whole bunch of causes but overlooks the most likely cause: the turbo bypass valve (diverter valve) is sticking. I had this problem with my car with only the V2 intake upgrade. Dawydiak replaced by diverter valve with a new and improved unit per the RRT and that appears to have resolved the fault. This is a serious fault that can result in excessive, expensive parts damaging overpressure in the intake manifold.

I subsequently upgraded to the GFB DV+ but only got a chance to drive the car with it after I got recall UB9 dealt with last week. One thing I noticed with the GFB DV+ is that I get a very loud short "boom" like a string being plucked on a bass guitar under certain conditions. I have no idea if this sound is normal for a GFB DV+.

I got the P0039 fault two different times when I accelerated in D mode full throttle up a steep-ish hill for a substantial time, then let off the throttle abruptly.

 

Short version:
Installed P2, drove ~30km. No problems (so far).

---

Long version:
Disclaimer: I don't claim that what I'm about to describe is the perfect or recommended way - it's just how I did it. Period.
I did pretty much the exact same thing as I did when installing P1 the last few times.
Ambient temperature was around -3°C, modifications on the car: EC V1, BMC filter.

Started the writing process and left the car alone for the time being.
When I went back to the car I did a few ignition on-off cycles; as requested by the handheld.
At the point where it asked me to start the engine, I did that but did NOT press OK on the handheld.
With the engine running and the handheld waiting for me to press OK, I started driving for ~5-7km to get the engine up to temperature and find a quiet spot where I could do the revs (obviously with a flashing CEL and Auto S/S disabled warning).
I stopped the car, put it in P (N-Mode) and pressed OK on the handheld.
The handheld showed the "waiting for operating temperature" screen for about 1/2 of a second and went straight to the revving-procedure.

Now to the revving-process:

• N-Mode and in Park - as stated above.
• I had to do three revs to redline (6000).
• The first two had kind of a "hard" limiter and had a little "bounce" when hitting the limiter. The last (3rd) one however had a soft limiter - that was very noticeable.
• When falling back to idle after the third rev, at ~3k rpm the flashing CEL went away and the handheld jumped to the next dash-off prompt.
• Between each of the three cycles I waited a few seconds (I let the CEL flash about 10 times).
• I did not have to fully depress the gas in order to hit redline (remember - N Mode!) at a reasonable speed - maybe around 3/4; I did however push it down completely for a short while (1s) right when I hit the limiter.

So far I've driven roughly 30km with a mix of manual, auto and the various DNA-modes. Low load scenarios, high load scenarios, ... - I did most of what I "normally" do. No hiccups as of right now. I've really missed the tune. What I find most pleasing is the changed behaviour of the transmission. No ridiculously harsh jolts when manually shifting in D, much faster auto-shifts in all modes, ...
To make it short: It's now how it should have come from the factory. But we already knew that.

I'm going to drive another ~30k today for our monthly regulars' table of car fanatics.
To be honest, I have no reason to anticipate a CEL. Flashing went fine, revving went fine, first drive was fine.

 

I’m certainly no expert on this and have not tried it myself, but I just had a thought... The rev process asks us to rev in sets of 3, and it looks like revving in D mode might be a possible cause for some of the issues people are having. Our cars have 3 drive modes, and it asks us to rev 3 times per set of revs. Coincidence? Is it possible that maybe we are supposed to do one of the 3 revs in A, one in N, and one in D?

I don’t have the tune (planning to purchase in spring once the snow is gone and all the bugs have been worked out), but I thought that this would make sense as the car could then learn throttle positions in all three modes. It would also explain the amount of time allotted for the rev process. I have absolutely no technical background or anything of the like to back up my theory, but the issues that people are having got me thinking. I’d be interested to hear Toby’s thoughts on this...

 

I've just done my P2 firmwave load with dual mode and no P&B. I haven't driven far or hard yet so I won't definitely say I've got no issues. My rev experience was three times to 6000 with getting 100% at the end and then two more to 6400 rpm and then the unit was happy. Previously when asked to do three revs to 6500 I've always had to had to do four revs to 6000 (to the limiter). I've never been asked to do another attempt at the three, I just keeping doing individual revs to the limit until the car and the handheld are happy - previously it was four, this time five. August '17 build, Australia spec.

 

Anyone had an issue not being able to complete rev procedure?

 

Yes.



I'm still in limbo, with no success in getting P2 installed. Have both the P&B version and a non Pops and Bangs version of the Dual mode (A and N from P1 and P2 for D).

Have made many attempts. Can re-load Stock and P1 at will with no issues. So far all combinations of Load + DEL processes with any version of P2 still leave me with CEL and AutoStart/Stop Unavailable. My CEL codes reports "P1300-00 Photonic Wheel Learn process required" and nothing else. Voltages, battery and other subsystems are perfect (with the exception of the BCM reporting 75% charged, although voltage is strong). Curiously, down-flash to Stock or Phase 1 works immediately in 3-4 rev cycles every time.

Toby is very patiently working on it, and I have faith. My car description is in my signature line and ECU SW is G522WA10. I'm working through the support emails with EC, and haven't kept the Forum up on the blow-by-blow, because aside from this confirmation of issues, my chatter doesn't help the cause.

My next posts on this topic will be after resolution,

 

Look all this P2 tune is hyped up. If you want more power go turbo upgrade or get quadrifoglio. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

Is there even a way to go bigger turbo at this point? Who can tune for this? What is the 2.0 limit to how on stock internals?

 

Track Day with PH2 Tune

The short version:
I had way to much fun today.
No problems, no CELs, no issues whatsoever.

The longer version:
Drove 95 miles to the track in N Mode (PH1), mostly with cruise control set to 75 mph. Beat the crap out of my wife's car at the driving school. I used D Mode (PH2), manual shift exclusively.

We ran the skid pad first (dry tarmac) clockwise and counter clockwise. This is a large circle that we try to find the point of traction loss. I had to be in the middle of third to be going fast enough to break traction. She feels very well balanced, sometimes the front pushes first, sometimes the back gets loose first, other times it feels like she four wheel drifting. In any case, I was able to control and correct, keeping her going where I wanted, never actually getting out of shape.

Later, the skid pad was watered down. I still had to be in the middle of third to start sliding around, but she slid different. She was so easy to manage.

The new tune feels right. In all seriousness, what I really want to talk about is all the things that feel weak, or less than now that she has more power. Lack of brakes is not on that list. Plenty of good, usable stopping power. She doesn't have the suspension she needs to go this fast and be pushed this hard. The suspension is upgrade-able, but a discussion for another thread.

I'm undecided about how the new DTC (Dynamic Traction Control) works though. Sometimes she feels like she cut power or lost power. This is when I'm exiting a hard turn and I'm on the gas. Then there's a jolt, as if she was air born and dropped back down. Then she suddenly takes off like a rocket. I've tried to glance at the tack and it seems to be in a good place. I can't feel the engine or hear the engine. I can only hear the V2 intake once in a while, usually the wastegate and that's faint.

I think what's going on is the inside wheel is lifting. I've got the factory LSD, and the RPM isn't racing, but she feels like she lost power. Then the suspension settles, she gains traction and off she goes. As she drops back down, I can feel a thud. It's possible the ESC is intervening, but I've never seen any dash lights flash.

I'm mixing the day up and speaking out of order, I'm still amped on Adrenalin.

We then went to the training track, which is a short road course with tight turns and only one real straight. Each turn is different somehow as this is designed to be a learning track. Anybody can go fast in a straight line, just push the throttle harder. Learning how to brake, turn in, apex, and power out of the turn are skills that can be difficult to learn.

I've never really tracked the Giulia before, so I can't compare how she felt before. She definitely has the power to get sideways coming out of a turn now. I'm not use to tracking a car with this much power, but I like it! It took me a few laps or more to smooth my turn exit. My 240z only has 150 hp and I can floor it at the apex. Not in the Giulia with this new tune. I've really got to roll-on the throttle and be smooth now.

She's got a lot of nice low end torque and nice high end horse power. That's just what the doctor ordered. Usable power everywhere. And she's easy to throttle steer too. She's well balanced by design (AR, suspension & weight) and throttle control (EC PH2). This means I can rotate her in a turn just by feathering the gas. If one axle starts stepping out, feather the gas to favor traction on one axle or the other.

She'd make one heck of a dedicated track car. A bit heavy for my taste, but so well balanced.

And tomorrow I'm going to do it all over again.

 

The short version:
I had way to much fun today.
No problems, no CELs, no issues whatsoever.

The longer version:
Drove 95 miles to the track in N Mode (PH1), mostly with cruise control set to 75 mph. Beat the crap out of my wife's car at the driving school. I used D Mode (PH2), manual shift exclusively.

We ran the skid pad first (dry tarmac) clockwise and counter clockwise. This is a large circle that we try to find the point of traction loss. I had to be in the middle of third to be going fast enough to break traction. She feels very well balanced, sometimes the front pushes first, sometimes the back gets loose first, other times it feels like she four wheel drifting. In any case, I was able to control and correct, keeping her going where I wanted, never actually getting out of shape.

Later, the skid pad was watered down. I still had to be in the middle of third to start sliding around, but she slid different. She was so easy to manage.

The new tune feels right. In all seriousness, what I really want to talk about is all the things that feel weak, or less than now that she has more power. Lack of brakes is not on that list. Plenty of good, usable stopping power. She doesn't have the suspension she needs to go this fast and be pushed this hard. The suspension is upgrade-able, but a discussion for another thread.

I'm undecided about how the new DTC (Dynamic Traction Control) works though. Sometimes she feels like she cut power or lost power. This is when I'm exiting a hard turn and I'm on the gas. Then there's a jolt, as if she was air born and dropped back down. Then she suddenly takes off like a rocket. I've tried to glance at the tack and it seems to be in a good place. I can't feel the engine or hear the engine. I can only hear the V2 intake once in a while, usually the wastegate and that's faint.

I think what's going on is the inside wheel is lifting. I've got the factory LSD, and the RPM isn't racing, but she feels like she lost power. Then the suspension settles, she gains traction and off she goes. As she drops back down, I can feel a thud. It's possible the ESC is intervening, but I've never seen any dash lights flash.

I'm mixing the day up and speaking out of order, I'm still amped on Adrenalin.

We then went to the training track, which is a short road course with tight turns and only one real straight. Each turn is different somehow as this is designed to be a learning track. Anybody can go fast in a straight line, just push the throttle harder. Learning how to brake, turn in, apex, and power out of the turn are skills that can be difficult to learn.

I've never really tracked the Giulia before, so I can't compare how she felt before. She definitely has the power to get sideways coming out of a turn now. I'm not use to tracking a car with this much power, but I like it! It took me a few laps or more to smooth my turn exit. My 240z only has 150 hp and I can floor it at the apex. Not in the Giulia with this new tune. I've really got to roll-on the throttle and be smooth now.

She's got a lot of nice low end torque and nice high end horse power. That's just what the doctor ordered. Usable power everywhere. And she's easy to throttle steer too. She's well balanced by design (AR, suspension & weight) and throttle control (EC PH2). This means I can rotate her in a turn just by feathering the gas. If one axle starts stepping out, feather the gas to favor traction on one axle or the other.

She'd make one heck of a dedicated track car. A bit heavy for my taste, but so well balanced.

And tomorrow I'm going to do it all over again.

Sounds like a blast. What track did you go to? Sounds like either Autoclub or Streets of Willow.

 

Racer Z, I'm so envious you have a place to drive like that. Nothing nearby where I live. I want to take my Giulia some place where I can learn the limits safely. I'll say one thing, this Phase 2 is the REAL DEAL. I'm so pleased with it. Yesterday I drove mostly in D mode, today in N (P1). The more I drive it, the more it seems to want to GO. It behaves as if there is a powerful "tail wind" pushing it along.. in other words, it seems to get to speed and cruise with less effort (can't find the words to really explain it). Also, with this Phase 2 tune, the PEDAL RESPONSE is much, much better! NO need at all for a pedal mod.

I think Toby and the guys at EC have pretty much nailed it. This is a totally different driving machine from what left the factory. :smile2::smile2:

 

Glad to hear Racer Z!
I’m hoping to do this myself soon.
Today was the day to load P2 in my car, but I left my laptop at work...?

 

Im happy to see people enjoying their p2 without issues, gives me hope that soon i will too enjoy it!
I flashed my car so many times, i cant get the rev procedure complete it self anymore lol, but i remember toby back in phase1 thread somethere posted that even if you dont complete the rev procedure, blinking cel will go away after some time or certain ammount of cycles, so i guess what rev procedure does it lets the ecu adapt faster to new parameters and lets it self learn faster?

 

Driving School with PH2 & DTC

Monday morning, I'm at home now, drinking morning coffee.

I had twice as much fun with half the problems on Sunday, my second track day. To recap: Saturday I had way to much fun with zero problems.

They broke us up into two groups, the more advanced drivers and the slower drivers. I had less slow traffic ahead of me and I was feeling more in-tune with the car. I was able to push her much harder. The day was warmer, it climbed to 70f (Saturday morning started with 31f) . The oil temp gauge showed six bars (3/4). I cooked my front brake pads, white charcoal, but still had usable brakes to drive home. Tires (front especially) are scrubbed in now :grin2:, but I still have usable rubber and will rotate the tires. Yes, I could smell the hot tires and brakes, at times I took some slower laps just to let things cool, including self.

Not once did I get a CEL or a warning light of any kind!

My dedicated track car is a Datsun 240z, about 2400 pounds and 150 hp. The Giulia Ti is about 3500 pounds and 390 hp with EC's PH2 tune. It took me a while to get use to the extra baggage as well as the extra power. My 240z has a racing seat and 5-point harness, the Giulia does not, so I spent a lot of energy trying to stay in my seat.

Part of the driving school included a wet skid-pad. Today we were asked to pitch the car sideways, do drifting style turns, or even spin the car. Now, this is why I went to the school, to be able to test the new Dynamic Traction Control, among other things. Let me start by saying that I was the only driver/car that did not spin out. Believe me, I tried. (There was an new Porsche Macan SUV that finally did a 180.) The ESC kept kicking in making it impossible to get to far out of shape. I've been tracking cars for about ten years now and know all the wrong things to do to get a car out of shape. I could not!

In D Mode (PH2 DTC), I could easily kick the rear end out on both wet and dry pavement. In the wet, things happen differently. I had time to experiment with all three DNA modes on the wet half circle. I should point out that with these tires (MPSS 255/35x19 at each corner) I had almost as much traction in the wet as the dry. In both cases, the car is balanced and neutral. I also have the factory LSD.

Wet large half circle:
- D Mode (PH2 w/DTC): I could easily kick the rear end out while rolling on the throttle. Car over-steers, easily controllable, the the engine cuts power, the car jerks back into shape and the power returns smoothly. I'm flat-footing the throttle prior to ESC kicking in. I tried doing this at part throttle, but the ESC kicks in anyway.

- N Mode (PH1): Not as much power, harder to kick the rear end out. The engine cuts power much sooner. Car is quickly in control with out the jerk feeling. But, the car was barely out of shape which explains the smoother transition.

- A Mode (OEM?): Stabbing the throttle, trying my best to break the rear loose but cannot. The drive-by-wire response is just to controlled and slow. Power slowly rises as does the speed. Eventually the car starts pushing the front, rear soon to follow, but ESC kicks in and the car stays on line (curve).

I had my in-car video camera going for the entire session, but haven't reviewed any of it yet.

I played with the DNA several more times during this wet circle. It was a large double apex turn, half circle, the other half was a slow zig-zag, zig-zag. I eventually stayed in D mode. I tried leaving the steering wheel turned in, not correcting for the over-steer while flat-footed. The ESC kept the car from getting to far out of shape. I tried stabbing the brakes, she just refused to become ruffled. I even pulled the emergency brake lever, she slowed real quick, staying in control, the the all wheel brake released giving back a fully in-control car. Clearly this says a lot for how AR set up the ESC (Electronic Stability Control).

Unfortunately, our beloved Giulia Ti's still don't have a race mode. To be clear, Toby never promised us Race Mode, only that he had allowed more torque through the drive-line than what AR had setup. I was anticipating being able to do several full doughnut circles, but that just didn't happen for me.

I resigned to staying in D mode and practice being smoother. I was able to ride that fine line of traction loss. Still on the wet semi-circle, and the entire run including zig-zag, zig-zag section is fully wetted, so it's a real slip-n-slide. At the point of traction loss, when the front started pushing, I could feather the throttle to gain front axle traction and rotate the rear around. If the rear started breaking loose, I could feather the throttle to control axle weight bias keeping the Giulia in full control. This is the purpose of the driving school. When I was able to correct early, the ESC never seemed to kick in. This says a lot for how AR setup the car, weight bias and suspension. It also says a lot for the work Toby did with the PH2 map, a peaky power curve is difficult to control. I think it says a lot for tire and wheel choices as well.

I thought about reinstalling the P2 map, but didn't really have time, and, should something go wrong during the reinstall, I would have lost my track time. So I finished the weekend on the original flash I did last week.

I burnt up 12.5 gallons of gas (91 octane) on Sunday alone.

I think Toby has nailed the torque & power curve for this P2 map. The DTC (Toby version) needs more work though. That's not a complaint, I need a good excuse to track my wife's car again. Including the Interstate drive to and from the track, I have 465 miles on this PH2 tune now, the only glitch was right at the beginning with a CEL. Toby is suggesting that I didn't do the rev cycle correctly. I used the handheld to correct for errors and have 460 miles since without issue.

Good job Toby and everybody else at EuroCompulsion!

 

Monday morning, I'm at home now, drinking morning coffee.

I had twice as much fun with half the problems on Sunday, my second track day. To recap: Saturday I had way to much fun with zero problems.

They broke us up into two groups, the more advanced drivers and the slower drivers. I had less slow traffic ahead of me and I was feeling more in-tune with the car. I was able to push her much harder. The day was warmer, it climbed to 70f (Saturday morning started with 31f) . The oil temp gauge showed six bars (3/4). I cooked my front brake pads, white charcoal, but still had usable brakes to drive home. Tires (front especially) are scrubbed in now :grin2:, but I still have usable rubber and will rotate the tires. Yes, I could smell the hot tires and brakes, at times I took some slower laps just to let things cool, including self.

Not once did I get a CEL or a warning light of any kind!

My dedicated track car is a Datsun 240z, about 2400 pounds and 150 hp. The Giulia Ti is about 3500 pounds and 390 hp with EC's PH2 tune. It took me a while to get use to the extra baggage as well as the extra power. My 240z has a racing seat and 5-point harness, the Giulia does not, so I spent a lot of energy trying to stay in my seat.

Part of the driving school included a wet skid-pad. Today we were asked to pitch the car sideways, do drifting style turns, or even spin the car. Now, this is why I went to the school, to be able to test the new Dynamic Traction Control, among other things. Let me start by saying that I was the only driver/car that did not spin out. Believe me, I tried. (There was an new Porsche Macan SUV that finally did a 180.) The ESC kept kicking in making it impossible to get to far out of shape. I've been tracking cars for about ten years now and know all the wrong things to do to get a car out of shape. I could not!

In D Mode (PH2 DTC), I could easily kick the rear end out on both wet and dry pavement. In the wet, things happen differently. I had time to experiment with all three DNA modes on the wet half circle. I should point out that with these tires (MPSS 255/35x19 at each corner) I had almost as much traction in the wet as the dry. In both cases, the car is balanced and neutral. I also have the factory LSD.

Wet large half circle:
- D Mode (PH2 w/DTC): I could easily kick the rear end out while rolling on the throttle. Car over-steers, easily controllable, the the engine cuts power, the car jerks back into shape and the power returns smoothly. I'm flat-footing the throttle prior to ESC kicking in. I tried doing this at part throttle, but the ESC kicks in anyway.

- N Mode (PH1): Not as much power, harder to kick the rear end out. The engine cuts power much sooner. Car is quickly in control with out the jerk feeling. But, the car was barely out of shape which explains the smoother transition.

- A Mode (OEM?): Stabbing the throttle, trying my best to break the rear loose but cannot. The drive-by-wire response is just to controlled and slow. Power slowly rises as does the speed. Eventually the car starts pushing the front, rear soon to follow, but ESC kicks in and the car stays on line (curve).

I had my in-car video camera going for the entire session, but haven't reviewed any of it yet.

I played with the DNA several more times during this wet circle. It was a large double apex turn, half circle, the other half was a slow zig-zag, zig-zag. I eventually stayed in D mode. I tried leaving the steering wheel turned in, not correcting for the over-steer while flat-footed. The ESC kept the car from getting to far out of shape. I tried stabbing the brakes, she just refused to become ruffled. I even pulled the emergency brake lever, she slowed real quick, staying in control, the the all wheel brake released giving back a fully in-control car. Clearly this says a lot for how AR set up the ESC (Electronic Stability Control).

Unfortunately, our beloved Giulia Ti's still don't have a race mode. To be clear, Toby never promised us Race Mode, only that he had allowed more torque through the drive-line than what AR had setup. I was anticipating being able to do several full doughnut circles, but that just didn't happen for me.

I resigned to staying in D mode and practice being smoother. I was able to ride that fine line of traction loss. Still on the wet semi-circle, and the entire run including zig-zag, zig-zag section is fully wetted, so it's a real slip-n-slide. At the point of traction loss, when the front started pushing, I could feather the throttle to gain front axle traction and rotate the rear around. If the rear started breaking loose, I could feather the throttle to control axle weight bias keeping the Giulia in full control. This is the purpose of the driving school. When I was able to correct early, the ESC never seemed to kick in. This says a lot for how AR setup the car, weight bias and suspension. It also says a lot for the work Toby did with the PH2 map, a peaky power curve is difficult to control. I think it says a lot for tire and wheel choices as well.

I thought about reinstalling the P2 map, but didn't really have time, and, should something go wrong during the reinstall, I would have lost my track time. So I finished the weekend on the original flash I did last week.

I burnt up 12.5 gallons of gas (91 octane) on Sunday alone.

I think Toby has nailed the torque & power curve for this P2 map. The DTC (Toby version) needs more work though. That's not a complaint, I need a good excuse to track my wife's car again. Including the Interstate drive to and from the track, I have 465 miles on this PH2 tune now, the only glitch was right at the beginning with a CEL. Toby is suggesting that I didn't do the rev cycle correctly. I used the handheld to correct for errors and have 460 miles since without issue.

Good job Toby and everybody else at EuroCompulsion!

I’m confused...what’s PH2 vs P2? I assume the P2 reference in the last paragraph is a typo...

 

Thanks @Racer Z for providing your experience with the new tune. Other members and I surely appreciate it.



On the side note, has anyone tried testing the 0-60 times with the P2 w/ DTC? for Q2 or Q4?

 

This is great information for those of us that don't have an opportunity to get to a driver's school. The road does get wet around here--a lot--and I have made a concerted effort to utilize and get a feel for the ESC and antilock brakes, but am constrained, so far, to lower speed on deserted streets. Reduced traction is always a concern. I would prefer not to have an impromptu high speed learning secession with other traffic present, lol. The good news is that we have plenty of 93 octane gas available

 

My handheld just arrived. Should I update it or not?

 

I have no problems so far with P2.
Did everything with the latest updates.

Toby has confirmed that the updates have no direct correlation with the various issues.

 

Now boys......

 

Just installed P2+P1 Flash while at the parking lot at work. DNA was set to N. Painless. Flashed on top of P1 that I had installed back in late november after dealer updates. 20 min for the file to load. Car was still warm from my 30 min commute. One set of 4 revs to 6k. Done. I triple checked the handheld to make sure it was the correct file I flashed. No cels. Will do a true test this afternoon on my commute back home on the north rim. V2 Intake/stock exhaust on my vehicle.

 

Sounds nice, and I'm eager to get into this myself, but of course just as P2 was released, Winter decided to come to SE Michigan finally, and between the snow and polar vortex, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for me to jump in right now. I've also got an AFE cold air intake ming, so delaying will give me time to install that and see what it does pre-tune, er, rather pre-EC tune as I do have the Madness MaxPower tuner on there.

 

RacerZ is correct, it's simply P1 or P2, Ph1 or Ph2, however you want to call it.

Both maps are independent of any features like dual mapping, etc. Those are simply down to the arrangement within the file or modes.

We do have plans for P2 updates with catless downpipes or high flow cats. I also have plans for P3 (stuffed turbo), and P4 (stuffed turbo with watermeth/E85, possible intercooler upgrades, etc). These are all things we are exploring and working on in the background.

I am concerned about the transmission durability moving forward into P3 or P4. But that is something we will certainly be researching and testing before anything is done.

It's very important that all of those things above, beyond what is currently available, are thoroughly tested and vetted properly before going on sale to the public. We still have a lot of work to do.

I am working on closing up some projects and development elsewhere, so that once those things are finished, we will be going full force into making the Giulia what we envision to be possible.

 

RacerZ is correct, it's simply P1 or P2, Ph1 or Ph2, however you want to call it.

Both maps are independent of any features like dual mapping, etc. Those are simply down to the arrangement within the file or modes.

Ok, so to be clear, P1 and P2 are the same tunes as Ph1 and Ph2?

I thought there was a modified P1 tune which came with the P2 dual-map option for N mode, is that incorrect?

Sorry to ask this, but can you explain once more what the difference is between P2 and P2 Dual Map? That's what I'm confused about, because it sounds like both are P2 only in D, and something else in N and A.

Forgive me if I'm being daft here...

 

Not a problem at all.

Yes, that is correct: Ph1=P1, Ph2=P2

There is no modified P1. I'll explain the differences:

-P1 map = P1 in D, improved stock in N, slightly improved stock in A

-P2 map = P2 in D, improved stock in N, slightly improved stock in A

-P2 dual map = P2 in D, P1 in N, slightly improved stock in A.

When P1 is placed in N mode for the P2 dual map, it drives about the same as P1 was when it was the primary map, and in D mode.

Hope that makes sense.

 

Not a problem at all.

Yes, that is correct: Ph1=P1, Ph2=P2

There is no modified P1. I'll explain the differences:

-P1 map = P1 in D, improved stock in N, slightly improved stock in A

-P2 map = P2 in D, improved stock in N, slightly improved stock in A

-P2 dual map = P2 in D, P1 in N, slightly improved stock in A.

When P1 is placed in N mode for the P2 dual map, it drives about the same as P1 was when it was the primary map, and in D mode.

Hope that makes sense.

Good clarification Toby. I think that was helpful for a number of us. I was wondering if I had gone just with the P2 mode and not dual map, what my N mode would have been. Sounds like it would be the same as it was with my earlier P1 tune. I really like the dual map so far... and everything is working without a hiccup :smile2:..

 

@toby@eurocompulsion any news on the revised p2 for few of us with the older software ?

 

Sorry if this has been addressed in the thread already--I couldn't find a specific direct answer:

According to the EC website, it looks like to be able to use the P2 upgrade, you need to have the intake and exhaust system upgrades as well; is that correct?

If so, would I then only want to install P1 since I don't yet have those upgrades?

 

It's a strong recomendation, so you can get the full potential from the P2 tune.

I tracked my car hard all weekend using the P2 tune, V2 intake and stock exhaust. No issues. I have about 450 miles on this now without issue.

 

Question for those who've upgraded to the P2 upgrade... when I installed the P1, I noticed a slight change in the sound of the car; the exhaust was a bit more growlier if that's a word. Does the P2 upgrade change the sound at all, either tone or volume?

 

I haven't noticed any change between P1 and P2 with the sound in normal driving. Obviously P&B, which I didn't get, does. I haven't had the opportunity to drive it hard yet, but I have a track day on Friday next week.

 

Giulias with a manufacture date in 2018 (or after) have a software gateway that is a security firewall and prevents OBD-II (write?) access. At least this gateway exists for European Giulias manufactured in 2018, not sure about other markets.

How does EURO+DRIVE Tuning system work around this?

I see posts from people based in different countries including those in Europe/EU using the P1/P2 tune, so curious.

 

I too would like to hear an answer to this question since I was not aware of the SGW module until Krish mentioned it.

 

Is there any harm in flashing P2 without the equipment specified in the tune? I've been bugging EC about their exhaust mfg. runs! Looks like delivery is still a few weeks out. I have the intake. Just wondering if there would be harm in flashing now before the exhaust in installed.

 

Other than not being able to get the full potential of the new tune, probably not. Perhaps if you stayed on full throttle at near redline for an extended period of time.

I still have my stock exhaust with P2 and V2 intake. Went racing all weekend without issue. That's a lot of full throttle, high RPM driving. Of course it's equally hard on the brakes and tires, brake hard, turn, accelerate hard, repeat, repeat, repeat. My tires are beat near to death and I cooked my front pads, but the tune related area seems to have survived just fine.

 

uh-oh...

This last week with P2 Dual Map +P&B has been pretty uneventful.
I did take the car on a canyon run earlier this week (with only a minor hiccup that cleared away after a restart) and I drive it harder than most people on a regular basis, but it's been pretty solid and hasn't gone into limp mode since I last reported it.

Over the past few days, Traction Control has been kinda making its presence more and more pronounced.
By that, I mean that "DTC" seems to be working somewhat intermittently.
At the beginning of the week, I could lay down all the power with no major pullback from TC (except for when launching), but I noticed today that I would completely lose power when giving the car too much throttle at even like 30 mph.

Something just hasn't been feeling right...
I was being extra obnoxious with the pops and bangs tonight and was able to trigger the really hard limp mode again.

@toby@eurocompulsion After what I've experienced over this past week, I'm pretty sure that you guys probably just haven't pushed the car in a way that would bother it enough to go into limp mode.
I know you tried and said that the car was flawless and all but something is definitely up.

Strange note that is probably unrelated but worth mentioning, this happened not long after filling up, kinda like what happened with @Racer Z. I was driving all day, no problem, stopped for gas, limp mode about 5 miles later.

Anyways, I wanted to share these two videos with you guys.
First is from @Musaabo and is a perfect example of how the limp mode is most easily triggered (2nd gear / ~40mph).
Second is my car losing power just as it went into limp mode. I was doing the exact same thing as Musaab.

https://youtu.be/LV70VDKuqBM

https://youtu.be/cb-jlqSRCdM

(both videos are unlisted and can only be viewed through these links)

 

This last week with P2 Dual Map +P&B has been pretty uneventful.
I did take the car on a canyon run earlier this week (with only a minor hiccup that cleared away after a restart) and I drive it harder than most people on a regular basis, but it's been pretty solid and hasn't gone into limp mode since I last reported it.

Over the past few days, Traction Control has been kinda making its presence more and more pronounced.
By that, I mean that "DTC" seems to be working somewhat intermittently.
At the beginning of the week, I could lay down all the power with no major pullback from TC (except for when launching), but I noticed today that I would completely lose power when giving the car too much throttle at even like 30 mph.

Something just hasn't been feeling right...
I was being extra obnoxious with the pops and bangs tonight and was able to trigger the really hard limp mode again.

@toby@eurocompulsion After what I've experienced over this past week, I'm pretty sure that you guys probably just haven't pushed the car in a way that would bother it enough to go into limp mode.
I know you tried and said that the car was flawless and all but something is definitely up.

Strange note that is probably unrelated but worth mentioning, this happened not long after filling up, kinda like what happened with @Racer Z. I was driving all day, no problem, stopped for gas, limp mode about 5 miles later.

Anyways, I wanted to share these two videos with you guys.
First is from @Musaabo and is a perfect example of how the limp mode is most easily triggered (2nd gear / ~40mph).
Second is my car losing power just as it went into limp mode. I was doing the exact same thing as Musaab.

https://youtu.be/LV70VDKuqBM

https://youtu.be/cb-jlqSRCdM

(both videos are unlisted and can only be viewed through these links)

I noticed that the check engine light is flashing before the throttle light comes on in the 2nd video. Is that correct, and is this also the case/same conditions with the first video?

And yes, we have definitely driven the car in the same manner you are in the video (quite a lot actually, Jordan really likes his pops and bangs lol). I wasn't exaggerating when I said this before and during my previous experiment.