[Andy1gg]

Look all this P2 tune is hyped up. If you want more power go turbo upgrade or get quadrifoglio. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Raw_Alfa]

Look all this P2 tune is hyped up. If you want more power go turbo upgrade or get quadrifoglio. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Is there even a way to go bigger turbo at this point? Who can tune for this? What is the 2.0 limit to how on stock internals?

 

[Racer Z]

Look all this P2 tune is hyped up. If you want more power go turbo upgrade or get quadrifoglio. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Drop a 2.9 V6 in it.

 

[Racer Z]

I'm still in limbo, with no success in getting P2 installed. Have both the P&B version and a non Pops and Bangs version of the Dual mode (A and N from P1 and P2 for D).

Have made many attempts. Can re-load Stock and P1 at will with no issues. So far all combinations of Load + DEL processes with any version of P2 still leave me with CEL and AutoStart/Stop Unavailable. My CEL codes reports "P1300-00 Photonic Wheel Learn process required" and nothing else. Voltages, battery and other subsystems are perfect (with the exception of the BCM reporting 75% charged, although voltage is strong). Curiously, down-flash to Stock or Phase 1 works immediately in 3-4 rev cycles every time.

Toby is very patiently working on it, and I have faith. My car description is in my signature line and ECU SW is G522WA10. I'm working through the support emails with EC, and haven't kept the Forum up on the blow-by-blow, because aside from this confirmation of issues, my chatter doesn't help the cause.

My next posts on this topic will be after resolution,

I hope you get it sorted out.

 

[Racer Z]

Track Day with PH2 Tune

The short version:
I had way to much fun today.
No problems, no CELs, no issues whatsoever.

The longer version:
Drove 95 miles to the track in N Mode (PH1), mostly with cruise control set to 75 mph. Beat the crap out of my wife's car at the driving school. I used D Mode (PH2), manual shift exclusively.

We ran the skid pad first (dry tarmac) clockwise and counter clockwise. This is a large circle that we try to find the point of traction loss. I had to be in the middle of third to be going fast enough to break traction. She feels very well balanced, sometimes the front pushes first, sometimes the back gets loose first, other times it feels like she four wheel drifting. In any case, I was able to control and correct, keeping her going where I wanted, never actually getting out of shape.

Later, the skid pad was watered down. I still had to be in the middle of third to start sliding around, but she slid different. She was so easy to manage.

The new tune feels right. In all seriousness, what I really want to talk about is all the things that feel weak, or less than now that she has more power. Lack of brakes is not on that list. Plenty of good, usable stopping power. She doesn't have the suspension she needs to go this fast and be pushed this hard. The suspension is upgrade-able, but a discussion for another thread.

I'm undecided about how the new DTC (Dynamic Traction Control) works though. Sometimes she feels like she cut power or lost power. This is when I'm exiting a hard turn and I'm on the gas. Then there's a jolt, as if she was air born and dropped back down. Then she suddenly takes off like a rocket. I've tried to glance at the tack and it seems to be in a good place. I can't feel the engine or hear the engine. I can only hear the V2 intake once in a while, usually the wastegate and that's faint.

I think what's going on is the inside wheel is lifting. I've got the factory LSD, and the RPM isn't racing, but she feels like she lost power. Then the suspension settles, she gains traction and off she goes. As she drops back down, I can feel a thud. It's possible the ESC is intervening, but I've never seen any dash lights flash.

I'm mixing the day up and speaking out of order, I'm still amped on Adrenalin.

We then went to the training track, which is a short road course with tight turns and only one real straight. Each turn is different somehow as this is designed to be a learning track. Anybody can go fast in a straight line, just push the throttle harder. Learning how to brake, turn in, apex, and power out of the turn are skills that can be difficult to learn.

I've never really tracked the Giulia before, so I can't compare how she felt before. She definitely has the power to get sideways coming out of a turn now. I'm not use to tracking a car with this much power, but I like it! It took me a few laps or more to smooth my turn exit. My 240z only has 150 hp and I can floor it at the apex. Not in the Giulia with this new tune. I've really got to roll-on the throttle and be smooth now.

She's got a lot of nice low end torque and nice high end horse power. That's just what the doctor ordered. Usable power everywhere. And she's easy to throttle steer too. She's well balanced by design (AR, suspension & weight) and throttle control (EC PH2). This means I can rotate her in a turn just by feathering the gas. If one axle starts stepping out, feather the gas to favor traction on one axle or the other.

She'd make one heck of a dedicated track car. A bit heavy for my taste, but so well balanced.

And tomorrow I'm going to do it all over again.

 

[Tony Bonanno]

Racer Z, I'm so envious you have a place to drive like that. Nothing nearby where I live. I want to take my Giulia some place where I can learn the limits safely. I'll say one thing, this Phase 2 is the REAL DEAL. I'm so pleased with it. Yesterday I drove mostly in D mode, today in N (P1). The more I drive it, the more it seems to want to GO. It behaves as if there is a powerful "tail wind" pushing it along.. in other words, it seems to get to speed and cruise with less effort (can't find the words to really explain it). Also, with this Phase 2 tune, the PEDAL RESPONSE is much, much better! NO need at all for a pedal mod.

I think Toby and the guys at EC have pretty much nailed it. This is a totally different driving machine from what left the factory. :smile2::smile2:

 

[Eagle7]

The short version:
I had way to much fun today.
No problems, no CELs, no issues whatsoever.

The longer version:
Drove 95 miles to the track in N Mode (PH1), mostly with cruise control set to 75 mph. Beat the crap out of my wife's car at the driving school. I used D Mode (PH2), manual shift exclusively.

We ran the skid pad first (dry tarmac) clockwise and counter clockwise. This is a large circle that we try to find the point of traction loss. I had to be in the middle of third to be going fast enough to break traction. She feels very well balanced, sometimes the front pushes first, sometimes the back gets loose first, other times it feels like she four wheel drifting. In any case, I was able to control and correct, keeping her going where I wanted, never actually getting out of shape.

Later, the skid pad was watered down. I still had to be in the middle of third to start sliding around, but she slid different. She was so easy to manage.

The new tune feels right. In all seriousness, what I really want to talk about is all the things that feel weak, or less than now that she has more power. Lack of brakes is not on that list. Plenty of good, usable stopping power. She doesn't have the suspension she needs to go this fast and be pushed this hard. The suspension is upgrade-able, but a discussion for another thread.

I'm undecided about how the new DTC (Dynamic Traction Control) works though. Sometimes she feels like she cut power or lost power. This is when I'm exiting a hard turn and I'm on the gas. Then there's a jolt, as if she was air born and dropped back down. Then she suddenly takes off like a rocket. I've tried to glance at the tack and it seems to be in a good place. I can't feel the engine or hear the engine. I can only hear the V2 intake once in a while, usually the wastegate and that's faint.

I think what's going on is the inside wheel is lifting. I've got the factory LSD, and the RPM isn't racing, but she feels like she lost power. Then the suspension settles, she gains traction and off she goes. As she drops back down, I can feel a thud. It's possible the ESC is intervening, but I've never seen any dash lights flash.

I'm mixing the day up and speaking out of order, I'm still amped on Adrenalin.

We then went to the training track, which is a short road course with tight turns and only one real straight. Each turn is different somehow as this is designed to be a learning track. Anybody can go fast in a straight line, just push the throttle harder. Learning how to brake, turn in, apex, and power out of the turn are skills that can be difficult to learn.

I've never really tracked the Giulia before, so I can't compare how she felt before. She definitely has the power to get sideways coming out of a turn now. I'm not use to tracking a car with this much power, but I like it! It took me a few laps or more to smooth my turn exit. My 240z only has 150 hp and I can floor it at the apex. Not in the Giulia with this new tune. I've really got to roll-on the throttle and be smooth now.

She's got a lot of nice low end torque and nice high end horse power. That's just what the doctor ordered. Usable power everywhere. And she's easy to throttle steer too. She's well balanced by design (AR, suspension & weight) and throttle control (EC PH2). This means I can rotate her in a turn just by feathering the gas. If one axle starts stepping out, feather the gas to favor traction on one axle or the other.

She'd make one heck of a dedicated track car. A bit heavy for my taste, but so well balanced.

And tomorrow I'm going to do it all over again.

Sounds like a blast. What track did you go to? Sounds like either Autoclub or Streets of Willow.

 

[Racer Z]

Sounds like a blast. What track did you go to? Sounds like either Autoclub or Streets of Willow.

Streets of Willow.

I've got some in-car video to post later. I also have some tripod video of the skid pad, but that's rather boring to watch actually.

 

[ParagonBuilder]

Glad to hear Racer Z!
I’m hoping to do this myself soon.
Today was the day to load P2 in my car, but I left my laptop at work...?

 

[Dorifto]

Im happy to see people enjoying their p2 without issues, gives me hope that soon i will too enjoy it!
I flashed my car so many times, i cant get the rev procedure complete it self anymore lol, but i remember toby back in phase1 thread somethere posted that even if you dont complete the rev procedure, blinking cel will go away after some time or certain ammount of cycles, so i guess what rev procedure does it lets the ecu adapt faster to new parameters and lets it self learn faster?

 

[Racer Z]

Driving School with PH2 & DTC

Monday morning, I'm at home now, drinking morning coffee.

I had twice as much fun with half the problems on Sunday, my second track day. To recap: Saturday I had way to much fun with zero problems.

They broke us up into two groups, the more advanced drivers and the slower drivers. I had less slow traffic ahead of me and I was feeling more in-tune with the car. I was able to push her much harder. The day was warmer, it climbed to 70f (Saturday morning started with 31f) . The oil temp gauge showed six bars (3/4). I cooked my front brake pads, white charcoal, but still had usable brakes to drive home. Tires (front especially) are scrubbed in now :grin2:, but I still have usable rubber and will rotate the tires. Yes, I could smell the hot tires and brakes, at times I took some slower laps just to let things cool, including self.

Not once did I get a CEL or a warning light of any kind!

My dedicated track car is a Datsun 240z, about 2400 pounds and 150 hp. The Giulia Ti is about 3500 pounds and 390 hp with EC's PH2 tune. It took me a while to get use to the extra baggage as well as the extra power. My 240z has a racing seat and 5-point harness, the Giulia does not, so I spent a lot of energy trying to stay in my seat.

Part of the driving school included a wet skid-pad. Today we were asked to pitch the car sideways, do drifting style turns, or even spin the car. Now, this is why I went to the school, to be able to test the new Dynamic Traction Control, among other things. Let me start by saying that I was the only driver/car that did not spin out. Believe me, I tried. (There was an new Porsche Macan SUV that finally did a 180.) The ESC kept kicking in making it impossible to get to far out of shape. I've been tracking cars for about ten years now and know all the wrong things to do to get a car out of shape. I could not!

In D Mode (PH2 DTC), I could easily kick the rear end out on both wet and dry pavement. In the wet, things happen differently. I had time to experiment with all three DNA modes on the wet half circle. I should point out that with these tires (MPSS 255/35x19 at each corner) I had almost as much traction in the wet as the dry. In both cases, the car is balanced and neutral. I also have the factory LSD.

Wet large half circle:
- D Mode (PH2 w/DTC): I could easily kick the rear end out while rolling on the throttle. Car over-steers, easily controllable, the the engine cuts power, the car jerks back into shape and the power returns smoothly. I'm flat-footing the throttle prior to ESC kicking in. I tried doing this at part throttle, but the ESC kicks in anyway.

- N Mode (PH1): Not as much power, harder to kick the rear end out. The engine cuts power much sooner. Car is quickly in control with out the jerk feeling. But, the car was barely out of shape which explains the smoother transition.

- A Mode (OEM?): Stabbing the throttle, trying my best to break the rear loose but cannot. The drive-by-wire response is just to controlled and slow. Power slowly rises as does the speed. Eventually the car starts pushing the front, rear soon to follow, but ESC kicks in and the car stays on line (curve).

I had my in-car video camera going for the entire session, but haven't reviewed any of it yet.

I played with the DNA several more times during this wet circle. It was a large double apex turn, half circle, the other half was a slow zig-zag, zig-zag. I eventually stayed in D mode. I tried leaving the steering wheel turned in, not correcting for the over-steer while flat-footed. The ESC kept the car from getting to far out of shape. I tried stabbing the brakes, she just refused to become ruffled. I even pulled the emergency brake lever, she slowed real quick, staying in control, the the all wheel brake released giving back a fully in-control car. Clearly this says a lot for how AR set up the ESC (Electronic Stability Control).

Unfortunately, our beloved Giulia Ti's still don't have a race mode. To be clear, Toby never promised us Race Mode, only that he had allowed more torque through the drive-line than what AR had setup. I was anticipating being able to do several full doughnut circles, but that just didn't happen for me.

I resigned to staying in D mode and practice being smoother. I was able to ride that fine line of traction loss. Still on the wet semi-circle, and the entire run including zig-zag, zig-zag section is fully wetted, so it's a real slip-n-slide. At the point of traction loss, when the front started pushing, I could feather the throttle to gain front axle traction and rotate the rear around. If the rear started breaking loose, I could feather the throttle to control axle weight bias keeping the Giulia in full control. This is the purpose of the driving school. When I was able to correct early, the ESC never seemed to kick in. This says a lot for how AR setup the car, weight bias and suspension. It also says a lot for the work Toby did with the PH2 map, a peaky power curve is difficult to control. I think it says a lot for tire and wheel choices as well.

I thought about reinstalling the P2 map, but didn't really have time, and, should something go wrong during the reinstall, I would have lost my track time. So I finished the weekend on the original flash I did last week.

I burnt up 12.5 gallons of gas (91 octane) on Sunday alone.

I think Toby has nailed the torque & power curve for this P2 map. The DTC (Toby version) needs more work though. That's not a complaint, I need a good excuse to track my wife's car again. Including the Interstate drive to and from the track, I have 465 miles on this PH2 tune now, the only glitch was right at the beginning with a CEL. Toby is suggesting that I didn't do the rev cycle correctly. I used the handheld to correct for errors and have 460 miles since without issue.

Good job Toby and everybody else at EuroCompulsion!

 

[Yury123]

Thanks @Racer Z for providing your experience with the new tune. Other members and I surely appreciate it.



On the side note, has anyone tried testing the 0-60 times with the P2 w/ DTC? for Q2 or Q4?

 

[chaadster]

Monday morning, I'm at home now, drinking morning coffee.

I had twice as much fun with half the problems on Sunday, my second track day. To recap: Saturday I had way to much fun with zero problems.

They broke us up into two groups, the more advanced drivers and the slower drivers. I had less slow traffic ahead of me and I was feeling more in-tune with the car. I was able to push her much harder. The day was warmer, it climbed to 70f (Saturday morning started with 31f) . The oil temp gauge showed six bars (3/4). I cooked my front brake pads, white charcoal, but still had usable brakes to drive home. Tires (front especially) are scrubbed in now :grin2:, but I still have usable rubber and will rotate the tires. Yes, I could smell the hot tires and brakes, at times I took some slower laps just to let things cool, including self.

Not once did I get a CEL or a warning light of any kind!

My dedicated track car is a Datsun 240z, about 2400 pounds and 150 hp. The Giulia Ti is about 3500 pounds and 390 hp with EC's PH2 tune. It took me a while to get use to the extra baggage as well as the extra power. My 240z has a racing seat and 5-point harness, the Giulia does not, so I spent a lot of energy trying to stay in my seat.

Part of the driving school included a wet skid-pad. Today we were asked to pitch the car sideways, do drifting style turns, or even spin the car. Now, this is why I went to the school, to be able to test the new Dynamic Traction Control, among other things. Let me start by saying that I was the only driver/car that did not spin out. Believe me, I tried. (There was an new Porsche Macan SUV that finally did a 180.) The ESC kept kicking in making it impossible to get to far out of shape. I've been tracking cars for about ten years now and know all the wrong things to do to get a car out of shape. I could not!

In D Mode (PH2 DTC), I could easily kick the rear end out on both wet and dry pavement. In the wet, things happen differently. I had time to experiment with all three DNA modes on the wet half circle. I should point out that with these tires (MPSS 255/35x19 at each corner) I had almost as much traction in the wet as the dry. In both cases, the car is balanced and neutral. I also have the factory LSD.

Wet large half circle:
- D Mode (PH2 w/DTC): I could easily kick the rear end out while rolling on the throttle. Car over-steers, easily controllable, the the engine cuts power, the car jerks back into shape and the power returns smoothly. I'm flat-footing the throttle prior to ESC kicking in. I tried doing this at part throttle, but the ESC kicks in anyway.

- N Mode (PH1): Not as much power, harder to kick the rear end out. The engine cuts power much sooner. Car is quickly in control with out the jerk feeling. But, the car was barely out of shape which explains the smoother transition.

- A Mode (OEM?): Stabbing the throttle, trying my best to break the rear loose but cannot. The drive-by-wire response is just to controlled and slow. Power slowly rises as does the speed. Eventually the car starts pushing the front, rear soon to follow, but ESC kicks in and the car stays on line (curve).

I had my in-car video camera going for the entire session, but haven't reviewed any of it yet.

I played with the DNA several more times during this wet circle. It was a large double apex turn, half circle, the other half was a slow zig-zag, zig-zag. I eventually stayed in D mode. I tried leaving the steering wheel turned in, not correcting for the over-steer while flat-footed. The ESC kept the car from getting to far out of shape. I tried stabbing the brakes, she just refused to become ruffled. I even pulled the emergency brake lever, she slowed real quick, staying in control, the the all wheel brake released giving back a fully in-control car. Clearly this says a lot for how AR set up the ESC (Electronic Stability Control).

Unfortunately, our beloved Giulia Ti's still don't have a race mode. To be clear, Toby never promised us Race Mode, only that he had allowed more torque through the drive-line than what AR had setup. I was anticipating being able to do several full doughnut circles, but that just didn't happen for me.

I resigned to staying in D mode and practice being smoother. I was able to ride that fine line of traction loss. Still on the wet semi-circle, and the entire run including zig-zag, zig-zag section is fully wetted, so it's a real slip-n-slide. At the point of traction loss, when the front started pushing, I could feather the throttle to gain front axle traction and rotate the rear around. If the rear started breaking loose, I could feather the throttle to control axle weight bias keeping the Giulia in full control. This is the purpose of the driving school. When I was able to correct early, the ESC never seemed to kick in. This says a lot for how AR setup the car, weight bias and suspension. It also says a lot for the work Toby did with the PH2 map, a peaky power curve is difficult to control. I think it says a lot for tire and wheel choices as well.

I thought about reinstalling the P2 map, but didn't really have time, and, should something go wrong during the reinstall, I would have lost my track time. So I finished the weekend on the original flash I did last week.

I burnt up 12.5 gallons of gas (91 octane) on Sunday alone.

I think Toby has nailed the torque & power curve for this P2 map. The DTC (Toby version) needs more work though. That's not a complaint, I need a good excuse to track my wife's car again. Including the Interstate drive to and from the track, I have 465 miles on this PH2 tune now, the only glitch was right at the beginning with a CEL. Toby is suggesting that I didn't do the rev cycle correctly. I used the handheld to correct for errors and have 460 miles since without issue.

Good job Toby and everybody else at EuroCompulsion!

I’m confused...what’s PH2 vs P2? I assume the P2 reference in the last paragraph is a typo...

 

[Offtask]

This is great information for those of us that don't have an opportunity to get to a driver's school. The road does get wet around here--a lot--and I have made a concerted effort to utilize and get a feel for the ESC and antilock brakes, but am constrained, so far, to lower speed on deserted streets. Reduced traction is always a concern. I would prefer not to have an impromptu high speed learning secession with other traffic present, lol. The good news is that we have plenty of 93 octane gas available

 

[Racer Z]

I’m confused...what’s PH2 vs P2? I assume the P2 reference in the last paragraph is a typo...

Typo, maybe, probably. PH2 and P2 are both in referance to the Phase 2 tune. Toby has called the new dual map tune PH2 & PH1, the two maps inside the dual tune. P2 is probably more in referance to the single map of Phase 2. In my case, I have the dual map, PH2 & PH1. From what I understand, you can get iether the P2 or P1 tune sepperatly and then can only install one or the other. When you want to use the other, you need to use the handheld to reflash the ECU. In the case of the dual map, PH2 & PH1 are installed as one ECU flash, then all I need to do is select them with the DNA switch, D is PH2 while N is PH1 and A is the stock A mode.

If I've got any of this wrong, I appologize. Toby, is this correct?

 

[Pr03MVi]

My handheld just arrived. Should I update it or not?

 

[stocki]

My handheld just arrived. Should I update it or not?

I have no problems so far with P2.
Did everything with the latest updates.

Toby has confirmed that the updates have no direct correlation with the various issues.

 

[chaadster]

Typo, maybe, probably. PH2 and P2 are both in referance to the Phase 2 tune. Toby has called the new dual map tune PH2 & PH1, the two maps inside the dual tune. P2 is probably more in referance to the single map of Phase 2. In my case, I have the dual map, PH2 & PH1. From what I understand, you can get iether the P2 or P1 tune sepperatly and then can only install one or the other. When you want to use the other, you need to use the handheld to reflash the ECU. In the case of the dual map, PH2 & PH1 are installed as one ECU flash, then all I need to do is select them with the DNA switch, D is PH2 while N is PH1 and A is the stock A mode.

If I've got any of this wrong, I appologize. Toby, is this correct?

Yeah, EC needs to clarify things...

The thing is, P2 is always “dual map” it seems, in that the P2 Dynamic map is never applied in any other mode, and you either get the original P1 tune maps in N and A, or with the so-called “dual map” option you get an entirely new map for N, and the original P1 map for A. So really, what is being called “dual map” is really tri-map.

If that is true, I think the P2 and PH2 thing doesn’t distinguish or clarify anything, and it would be much more clear to drop the “dual map” designation and either just call the tri-map option what it is, or give it a clear designation like P2+, P2T, or maybe even P3.

With other mapping options coming out, according to the OP, using the P3 designation might make really good sense, in that it would be a visually reminder of what’s going on: a unique map for each of the three DNA positions.

 

[stocki]

Yeah, EC needs to clarify things...



The thing is, P2 is always “dual map” it seems, in that the P2 Dynamic map is never applied in any other mode, and you either get the original P1 tune maps in N and A, or with the so-called “dual map” option you get an entirely new map for N, and the original P1 map for A. So really, what is being called “dual map” is really tri-map.



If that is true, I think the P2 and PH2 thing doesn’t distinguish or clarify anything, and it would be much more clear to drop the “dual map” designation and either just call the tri-map option what it is, or give it a clear designation like P2+, P2T, or maybe even P3.



With other mapping options coming out, according to the OP, using the P3 designation might make really good sense, in that it would be a visually reminder of what’s going on: a unique map for each of the three DNA positions.

I disagree.

Calling it P3 would be misleading as that's ECs naming for their "Stage 3" map.

 

[chaadster]

I disagree.

Calling it P3 would be misleading as that's ECs naming for their "Stage 3" map.

What “stage 3” map? There’s already a P3?