I'll try to cover everything, as there are a few statements made in the thread that need to be addressed or corrected, and I've been driving our Giulia since early this morning until just a few minutes ago. Please read all of this information in its entirety, as their are some important things here.
First I'll address some statements:
- No, the chime in the video was from revving the car in neutral and having the door open, or the seatbelt disconnected, or both. I've said it before and I'll say it again (and I'm not attempting to hide this fact either), I have not experienced any of these issues with the tune on our test car, under any condition or circumstance.
- Pops and bangs will happen anytime you are using the pedal tap. They can happen in N and A mode, but are more subdued, and only occur if you're using the pedal tap. If no pedal tap, you get a little sound and then it goes away. I could not get our car in automatic mode to pop and bang, but I suppose if you go up to a high enough rpm in the right gear and let off before redline, it will allow some decel, and you will get some sound. But the previous statement still applies, you really have to use the pedal tap to get anything substantial.
- Whatever issues that are occurring are not related to the dual map or pops and bangs, it's not really related to anything having to do with the map. I know this because there are many on the same software versions as those with issues, who are running the same mix of different maps who do not have an issue. There are some with issues who are running the same mix of maps. It's not related to a specific feature or map choice.
- A code reader cannot clear codes while the engine is on.
Now on to my tests this morning:
- Early this morning I took out our Giulia as it sits now (Ph 2-Ph 1 Pops and bangs). Some of you are running this exact same tune. I put quite a bit of mileage on the car during this stint, and I hammered on the car pretty hard throughout this time (probably almost two hours of straight driving). I tried to replicate anything that some of you have experienced (low gear, high revs, inducing pops and bangs at various spots in the rpm range, various gears, WOT in all DNA modes, manual driving, automatic driving, cruising, part throttle, low rpm high gear lugging, low gear high rpm lugging, etc, etc). I seriously beat up the car trying to make it flinch, and I could not. It drove flawlessly.
- So, based on some information I have retrieved from some users who have emailed me, I came to the conclusion yesterday that their may be an issue with the handheld itself. I noticed that I had two customers, both had the same exact model Giulia, same software version, same mods, and were both running the exact same tune file (Ph 2-Ph 1 dual map). Because they have the same software version, they both would have received the exact same file (literally the same file from my tuning software). One was able to flash straight from their previous P1 tune to their new P2 map. They experienced no issue with flashing, and the car drives exactly as it should with no problems, with a few hundred miles of driving. Turns out their MyGenius had not been updated to a newer OS. The second customer was having all kinds of strange issues, many of which have already been posted here. They had trouble with flashing the car, and experienced issues trying to use the DEL errors procedure, etc. Their handheld is on a newer OS. This theory was consistent with other users having issues on a newer OS, and some not having issues on older OS versions.
I decided to do an experiment. I treated our car and myself as if I were a customer with a MyGenius, doing all of the exact same procedures you would do to tune your car, and doing exactly what I would do on my end to get your tune file made and ready for your handheld. I've done this before with P1, but it was only to make instructions and test everything, not to troubleshoot a potential issue. Everything I did throughout this procedure is exactly what you would have to do. I was confident this was an issue with the handheld OS, and was sure I would see the same issues (or at least one of them), that you all may be having. Here's how it went:
- Flashed our car back to stock (the original stock file that was on our test car) using my master tool.
- Drove and made sure the car was stock, and functioning properly. It was on both accounts.
- Set up a MyGenius unit (that's your handheld) for us to use, and updated it to have the latest OS and build (6.030 build 2)
- We ID'd the ECU, and generated a file to send to the tuning portal.
- Uploaded file to the tuning portal.
Now what I would normally do for you guys:
- Download the .fpf file, and unpack the file.
- View software version and vehicle info.
- Go to tuning software, match corresponding software version to the downloaded file. Choose appropriate tune file that I have made (in this case Ph 2-Ph 1 Pops and bangs). This is an actual file some of you are running on your cars. I also did the stock file just in case I ran into an issue, which I fully expected to at this point.
- Pack the tune file so it is in MyGenius format, and upload to the portal for the customer (me)
Now as the customer:
- Download the file from the portal to my computer
- Plug handheld into computer, open client software
- Upload the tune file (and stock file as well) to the handheld
- Take the handheld out to the car to flash
Flashing the car:
- Plug handheld into car, select work, then write.
- Scroll right to select "Ph 2-Ph 1 P&B). Hit OK.
- Go through various Dash On/Off prompts, then handheld begins to program file to the ECU.
- After finishing, follow dash off prompts, and proceed.
Now here is where it gets tricky, and where I think some of the problems are being created (something about the car does not like this if you do it any other way):
- After a series of Dash/On off prompts, the handheld tells me to start the engine, and press ok.
- Start engine, press ok.
- Warm up progress bar proceeds to fill
- Once done, handheld prompts me to "Rev to 6500 RPM, going back to idle, 3 times". There is a loading bar at the bottom that is essentially timing this procedure.
- A few things here: When the car is first started, it will only allow revs to 6000rpm for a certain amount of time (this is for engine warmup, coolant warmup, catalyst warming, etc, etc, not just any one thing). After this period is over, it can rev higher now that we have changed the RPM redline.
- The way that we all perform this procedure here at the shop: rev slowly to 6000rpm, and let it touch the rev limiter for a second or two once it is reached. Also, starting the rev from an idle rpm, the pedal should be fully depressed to the floor by the time you reach redline, it should push off the rev limiter. Then let off, and allows the rpms to go back idle, and remain there for 5-10 seconds. Perhaps I did not explain this thoroughly enough in the beginning.
So back to the next step:
- We begin revving to 6000rpm just as I described above.
- We did this 3 times. However, the flashing CEL was still present.
- I looked down at our time loading bar, and saw that we still had more than half of the allotted time left.
- I decided to rev a 4th time, and on this attempt, the flashing CEL went away. This was still revving to 6000rpm.
- Dash off prompt showed, and I shut the car off and continued with the procedure until I received the writing ECU completed message.
- The handheld processed its log file, and arrived back at the main menu.
- I then disconnected from the car.
At this point, I took the car out and drove for a few hours, trying to replicate and simulate everything I had earlier that day on the tune file that was flashed with my master tool. At one point, I even stopped to refuel (I wanted to try and replicate the issue RacerZ had at the gas station).
Unfortunately I was unable to get the car to do anything differently than how it had performed earlier that morning. The car ran flawlessly, and without issue.
After analyzing the log files from the flash, and comparing this information to what I have seen from some users, I came to what I think is a pretty solid conclusion. Because of the raised redline in P2, and the changes in some of the OS updates for the handheld, the rev procedure is much more sensitive than it was before. Something is happening on the first round of the rev procedure where:
(1) if you do not complete the procedure on the first round and the ignition has to be turned off, then back on again, the ECU is storing information as pending codes or errors (almost like a pending recovery). Once this is done, I believe it will take multiple tries for the handheld to process all errors stored or pending before it can erase them completely. If they are not erased completely, some of this information will be waiting when you first start to drive.
(2) if the revs are not performed as described (or as the ECU and handheld expect to see them) something is amiss with the throttle learn. It needs to effectively match up the given rpm with throttle position and other information. Same as above, if the rev procedure or DEL errors has to be performed multiple times, the throttle adaptation is somehow off slightly (especially with the rpm limit changing after you've turned off and on the car). This is why after going through this and having to perform the DEL errors procedure multiple times the tune doesn't quite feel right in a specific mode.
I was really hoping this was just an issue with the handheld, but it would appear it is much more complex than that. Simply put, it really comes down to the rev procedure, at least that's what I'm seeing.
What I would recommend:
- Some of you may need to reflash your map, or try reflashing one of your non pops and bangs map (just a different map than what's already on the car).
- Perform the rev procedure as described, but use all of the allotted time in the progress bar. This means, if you have revved 3 times and you still have the CEL, continue to rev effectively until there is no more time remaining. Tested on my master tool, you should be able to get 6-7 revs at least within the allotted time. I will have to edit the installation instructions to reflect this as an option, but on the MyGenius and on my master tool, you can rev as many times as able to within the time. This has completed the procedure within the first round everytime. Once completed in the first round, there were no following issues.
- I believe, based on the logs and what we did this morning, that you will be able to complete the flash procedure and eliminate the CEL within the first round of revving (if done correctly), and be able to proceed without issue.
- I also want to point this out ahead of time: Yes, I am telling you to do differently than what the screen on the handheld says at this point. I will edit the instructions to reflect this. I will also let Dimsport know, but only they can make the change to the procedure. For now, this is what I recommend when you arrive at this point of the flash process.
On another note, Dorifto's issue is different than what everyone else is experiencing. There is a bug within this file exchange (he is on an older software version), and I will have to sort this one out through the software on my end. This issue is not related to the other issues occurring.
Hopefully all of this makes sense, I know it's quite a read.
