Alfa Romeo Giulia Forum banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm on a few forums, one of them Rennlist as I own a 2012 911 GTS 6spd and a 2015 911 GTS PDK. A guy on the 997 forum had his engine shell after some miles. Not high miles, but some.

So he spent over $25k to rebuild it, and was a happy camper. Until his PDK transmission failed. If you are not familiar with Porsche, they don't make it easy to service certain aspects of the car. In the case, the PDK transmission. A used one is $16k. A new one $25k. No parts support from Porsche, If it fails, you swap it. Or get one from a junkyard.

The problem is THEY BREAK. Mine failed at 9877 miles. There are plenty of stories of this happening to people. Last Friday I met a new customer I've never met before and told him my daily s a QV. He had one and loved it, though he's mega-rich so traded it in on a $200k Merc. I mentioned my QV has been 100% perfectly reliable. His was too. I mentioned my PDK failed. His did too. He owns a new 911 twin-turbo that failed in the first two months. Later that evening I talked to a friend who's taking delivery of a new 2020 911, and he wants an extended warranty because HIS best friend's 911 GTS had a bad PDK.

Back to the 997 form guy. He's thinking about getting out of his car and wanting something newer with warranty. I told him there's a buyback 2017 QV with 8k miles on it for under 45k, and that he could them extend the remaining 1-year warranty another 3 years for $2060. BOOM. Bad-ass car with a warranty for low bucks.

Some of the Porsche community went crazy. How could I suggest the troublesome Alfa. I'll tell you why:

The problems that seem to repeat themselves here are check engine lights, and that's something that can be CURED and not MAJOR like a Porsche PDK failure. European performance cars are ALL troublesome to some degree. I've owned many. The QV engine is sound, the transmission is BULLETPROOF.

It's been the most dependable....and thrilling car I've owned. It makes my Porsches feel a little slow. The chassis is so intuitive. The best part is the comfort of a Mercedes when I want it, and the excitement of a Ferrari at the twist of a dial. I've owned four Ferraris. They all pale in comparison.

Guys that overspend on Porsches give the company a pass for poor dependability and for horrible service when you're out of warranty. I find it amazing what people put up with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
629 Posts
Thanks @Kevin Deal for this post. I am sure that many of us appreciate it. Please, find a way in your settings to automatically re-publish your post a couple of times per week, at least. Or, to automatically respond to the many posts talking shit about Alfa Romeo and about QVs. I understand that there are owners who have had major issues with their QVs and may feel frustrated and disappointed. I also know that the QV is not a perfect car (it is just a Dream Car) but, I am convinced that the QV is one of the best cars there (let alone the design, performance, class technology and price), that Alfa Romeo is a great brand and that many other "famous" brands have bigger issues than Alfa Romeo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
My 997 been pretty much trouble free for 40K+ miles. Only issue was the water pump and that took me about 6 hours to change out. Agree w the PDK thats why you have to get a manual. We haven't seen how service will be post warranty (will start seeing them soon now) on the QV ..kinda scared seeing how in warranty service has been lol. Ive been digging into the QV engine just to see how everything is put together and its very tight and complex and worried how many independent shops will work on it. Porsche engines especially pre 991 are easy to work on and plenty on independent shops around me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
It's funny to me how people talk crap about the Alfas, and the QV in particular. I have to admit I was even a little skeptical at first... at least until I drove it and then my wallet started to cry...

... but this isn't my first rodeo, nor is it my first European sports sedan. Heck, while my QV sits in the garage there's a 2010 Audi A4 that sits out on the street and that hasn't exactly been trouble-free (but it IS paid for and Audi paid to rebuild the turbo just before 100,000 miles... so we've got a bit of time left with it).

I never had a BMW that I didn't have to fix. Even my first Bimmer (E46 2001 330i, 5-speed) had the cooling system detonate and the head gasket explode on a drive home from Chicago. I still fixed it and when I finally had enough of that 330i I got another BMW because I'm a sucker? No... it was because the driving experience of that car was at the time second-to-none and I wanted more of that. My 545i had a clutch throwout bearing that crapped out at 60K miles... my 135i had to have the front brake calipers replaced at 16K miles because... well they never really gave me a good reason but one of them just stopped working one day. Heck, even my 2008 M3 (my last BMW) right around that magical 60K mark with BMW's decided that the engine needed a top-end rebuild because the valves were just buggered. In hindsight I'm of course glad I never suffered the dreaded rod-bearing failure, but it's not like any of my Bimmers were trouble free.

So far I'm just at 9500 miles and 10 months of ownership. You know what's broken in my Alfa so far? One clip on the inside panel of the door. That's it. The panel started rattling... dealership replaced it (and while it was in they updated all the software throughout the car because I reported I was having occasional lost presets on the radio... not actually true, but it's what my service advisor said I should put in order to get the latest software). No muss, no fuss. So far my only problems with my QV were because of the incredibly soft rubber that's on the car stock and the wonderful St. Louis and Southern Illinois roads that killed 3 tires in 5000 miles. On the bright side I have a virtually new set of tires in my basement while I am rolling on some Continental all-seasons that work just perfectly for daily driving duty, and are much better in the rain than those Pirellis.

My wife used to drive a Jaguar X-Type... yeah I know they're supposed to be really bad too. You know what broke in the 120K miles she owned it? The climate control blend door and the sunroof. That's it. Zero mechanical issues and the ones that occurred were easily fixed. We sold it to a friend who to my knowledge still putters around Phoenix in it to this day. No idea how many miles are on it now.

European sports sedans are NOT luxury cars. I know that. Yes, the QV is in the luxury car price range but it's no more a luxury car than a Porsche Cayman (a car I cross-shopped with my QV). It's a hard-edged sports car that happens to be able to soften up at the flick of a switch and be a very powerful but comfortable car. The BMW 3 series isn't a luxury car either, though plenty of people want to believe it is.

I've never owned a Mercedes so far... can't speak to that. But to be honest if I were to go into Merc territory it would likely be an E-Class... the C-Class just screams "Taxi!" to me... but maybe that's because I lived in London for a while. And I've never been in a C-Class that doesn't smell vaguely of baby formula and I'm not 100% sure why.

Anyway, just my 2c. I am going to enjoy my car and continue to tell my friends about how reliable it's been while their M4's and C63's are in the shop because something else random broke. Sorry, that's just the way it has been so far for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
629 Posts
Thanks @Sinister_Crayon. Please re-publish your above post, weekly !!!!!. Giulia is a great car (performance, design, class, beauty, handling and history) and the QV is a Dream Car. There are many bad dealers and there are many great dealers. Such is life. Alfa Romeo will last another 110 years and if it was in the US during the 70s, 80s and early 90s for 20 years and selling only 3,500 cars/yr, it will last also 20 years now, selling 18,000 cars/yr, even to the disbelieve of few in this Forums.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
If anyone in the Porsche community want's to talk trash about Alfa reliability mention 3 letters: IMS. That should shut them up. I remember reading an article where a Timken engineer did a failure analysis and determined it was (IIRC) 10% within 100k miles. If I owned a product from a company where 10% of their engines were going to hand grenade in less than 100k miles, I wouldn't be commenting on any other brand's quality/reliability. Yes, I know they changed the design and newer ones don't do that - but any manufacturer that thinks replacing an oil fed bearing with a sealed 'washing machine' type bearing in an engine is not exacly the pinacle of exemplary engineering. And that's coming from someone that has owned 2 911's.....the real ones...air cooled.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Thankfully the IMS only affected the non turbos. I also had a 996 targa that didn’t have an ims issue but I replaced when I did the clutch w the ims solution and for peace of mind. All performance cars have some issues look at all the M series (w crank hubs, rod bearings and subframe issues) it’s a price you pay for performance. To me the jury is still out on the QV motors as it’s till relatively new and low volume. Now that cars are coming out of warranty we will see what big ticket items will start to fail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
Thankfully the IMS only affected the non turbos. I also had a 996 targa that didn’t have an ims issue but I replaced when I did the clutch w the ims solution and for peace of mind. All performance cars have some issues look at all the M series (w crank hubs, rod bearings and subframe issues) it’s a price you pay for performance. To me the jury is still out on the QV motors as it’s till relatively new and low volume. Now that cars are coming out of warranty we will see what big ticket items will start to fail.
Well stated post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
154 Posts
Sucks to hear about the PDK cars. I had a 997.2 GT3 that I put 50,000+ miles on. Never needed a single repair.

16,000 miles on my QV. 1 misfire code. No repairs so far either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Might be the luck of the draw. This is just me but, I've had fewer problems with my Panamera than my QV. Nothing but love for both brands
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
Might be the luck of the draw. This is just me but, I've had fewer problems with my Panamera than my QV. Nothing but love for both brands
That or comparing a single brand new car with a few 10 year old ones.

Porsches are now known to be some of the most reliable cars after toyota.

My 997 was trouble free fwiw

95405
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
783 Posts
I believe most reliability surveys are new/under-a-year-old cars. So most of those surveys have no value beyond marketing. While I've never owned a Toyota personally, everybody I know who owned Toyota/Lexus kept the vehicle for 15+ years. I cannot say the same about Porsche personally or anecdotally. That said, it appears, that most Porsche ownership experiences are like Alfa Romeo, two simple buckets. No/Almost-no issues & Holy-hell-why-did-I-buy-this-shit?

Edit: I actually am not DNA'ed to own a car beyond 3 years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,951 Posts
That or comparing a single brand new car with a few 10 year old ones.

Porsches are now known to be some of the most reliable cars after toyota.

My 997 was trouble free fwiw

View attachment 95405
it is tough to make the comparo Porsche vs. Alfa just on sheer number of 911 (&variants) produced so it will be skewed. but the 997.1 were def. NOT w/out their issues. and to the guys who suffered an engine grenade on their TT because the coolant lines literally came off due to faulty clips would disagree. every guy I know who has/had a 997.1 TT went and had those lines pinned after it came out. another issue was cracked coils. again it was not something that everyone experienced but quite a few did.
I've had my QV since 2016 and outside of the initial issue I had with a failed part that could not be diagnosed properly by an incompetent dealer the car has been trouble-free
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Will a QV engine go 150k without a rebuild or is that asking too much from such a powerful engine? I am going back and forth between a QV and a Lexus GS-F which is a wallowing hog compared to the Alfa but is semi-bulletproof.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
Considering the qv has only been out a few years I don't know how you can call it bulletproof just yet. My bigger hesitation in buying one is servicing down the road. Local dealers are barely stocking any cars making me think they are planning on stopping the brand. Sad since my wife and I still think the QV test drive was the most fun in a sub 100k car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,951 Posts
Will a QV engine go 150k without a rebuild or is that asking too much from such a powerful engine? I am going back and forth between a QV and a Lexus GS-F which is a wallowing hog compared to the Alfa but is semi-bulletproof.
an interesting cross-shop with a QV, while the GS-F is a very nice car, the only thing the 2 share in common is that they have 4 doors. it is far more plush inside, and loaded with tech
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,951 Posts
Considering the qv has only been out a few years I don't know how you can call it bulletproof just yet. My bigger hesitation in buying one is servicing down the road. Local dealers are barely stocking any cars making me think they are planning on stopping the brand. Sad since my wife and I still think the QV test drive was the most fun in a sub 100k car.
well I suppose that is the beauty of the internet...LOL we will all find out what happens to Alfa in time.
if you are in doubt, then I would not buy or lease one. personally I'm not overly concerned one way or the other as I am fortunate to have an excellent dealer who really isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
Finding a competent dealer for the service is the biggest single issue for Alfa right now. Dealer network is woeful
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
I agree...my dealer is also decent. Only issue has been the time to get part have been slow. Thats what i miss about having an M is that parts are readily available all over the us. Same w the porsche no issues getting any maintenance part within a few days
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
My son had a 996, which failed the IMS bearing. But he was scheduled in a few days as a Porsche owner to participate at Charlotte Motor Speedway for a Porsche new car test drive event. So Porsche told him they would replace his motor, if he paid installation. His 996 was some thousands of miles out of warranty, and had been bought used anyway. I tend to think Porsche provided a $25K motor so he wouldn't show up and tell prospective buyers about his blown motor. The earlier 997 cars had a problem with cylinder scoring, especially on the S variants, if run at lower RPM. Some dealers in England would not resell used 997S cars. It was thought possibly due to the low RPM of the automatic trans cars shifting too early. And I paid $4K to have the engine out and my coolant pipes welded in on my GT3, but the shop caused a $7K+ piston failure, which they refused to even pay the $2K in parts.

I suspect there is always some possibility of component failure with highly complex cars. My other daily driver is a 1952 Army 3/4 ton "weapons carrier", basically an army pick up truck. I spent a year on the restoration, including the1930's designed flat head 6 cy motor. It is an exceedingly simple engine, and even EMP proof, as there are no electronics more sophisticated than the ignition shielded distributor and spark plugs. It is 70 years old, and fires right up, and rolls down the road. Modern cars, I kinda doubt many of them will be out driving around in 70 years. No gas for cars then anyway.

My daughters 120K mile Mini turbo S has cost about a third of the cost of the car in service repairs. One thing after another.

All the best, and be sure and show your love and appreciation to the important women in your life on this Valentine's Day. NAM VET

 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top