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Getting back to the original reason for the thread, the "Netuno" something or other. I'm curious how you guys rate the reliability of the current 2.9. It's been discussed to death, but for those that think it's a reliable engine (I do, if you drive it like my mom), or unreliable (I do, if you drive it like it should be driven), why add an even more powerful engine to a car that's already unable to handle the power the current V6 makes (Just look at the GTA which makes a decent amount more power, but barely moves the performance dial, even going on a diet, for silly money). Add to that another layer of possible unreliability to a brand that was launched half baked, in addition to the reasons already given, and I think it's a no go.

I have the 2.0, and it's great after turbo lag goes away, but if the light turns yellow and you have to go NOW, it dissapoints. I don't know if the V6 has similar (all relative of course) behavior, but if it does, I think the best thing that can happen to our Alfas is an 80HP boost of instant power to the front wheels, which dovetails into my other question - How much power will a hybrid add to the front wheels ?
 

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Given the trend, it's more probably to see a hybrid Giulia/Stelvio leveraging Ghibli/Levante Hybrid which used the 2.0 from Giulia/Stelvio. Though I don't quite get the point for such a small battery/motor addition that adds a mere 50 horses... but would imaging it being used to eliminate that annoy turbo lag of the 2.0s.
 
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I would assume that enough R&D testing with electric engines of various outputs (not too high, talking 50-100 HP tops) would answer the question "Given the 1 second gap from when you hit the pedal, and when the turbos spool up and real acceleration happens... what's the minimum amount of instant electric HP required to fill that 1 second gap, given an accompanying low enough gear, and 10K RPM or so of electric engine spin available (or whatever it is, maybe it's 5K). Whatever that number ends up being, the lower the better because it means you need less battery, less cost, and less weight. OR do you think the conversation should be able the maximum amount of power you can throw at a certain amount of battery weight. Either way, these are fun discussions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·

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Cool tech (Etorque) nice find. Just read it only adds 100 Lbs, and I adds roughly 75 HP at the 130 Ft Lbs of torque rating when spinning at 3,000 RPM. Now I'm curious how long it takes that electric engine to spin to 3,000 RPM. Maybe 1/3 to 1/2 second range it would make a big difference, because 75HP more ponies at 1/2 second will boost whatever the 2.0 is making at that time. Guessing it's only spining at 4K with naturally aspiration because turbos aren't yet spoold, so that's what 75hp?. Might impact knock off a second off the 0-60 time. From 5.5 seconds to 4.5 or 4.7 would be huge (low 4s on the Giulia), and pretty cheap, as I read Dodge only charges an additiona 1K for the option.
 

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Getting back to the original reason for the thread, the "Netuno" something or other. I'm curious how you guys rate the reliability of the current 2.9. It's been discussed to death, but for those that think it's a reliable engine (I do, if you drive it like my mom), or unreliable (I do, if you drive it like it should be driven), why add an even more powerful engine to a car that's already unable to handle the power the current V6 makes (Just look at the GTA which makes a decent amount more power, but barely moves the performance dial, even going on a diet, for silly money). Add to that another layer of possible unreliability to a brand that was launched half baked, in addition to the reasons already given, and I think it's a no go.

I have the 2.0, and it's great after turbo lag goes away, but if the light turns yellow and you have to go NOW, it dissapoints. I don't know if the V6 has similar (all relative of course) behavior, but if it does, I think the best thing that can happen to our Alfas is an 80HP boost of instant power to the front wheels, which dovetails into my other question - How much power will a hybrid add to the front wheels ?
I wouldn't call the engine unreliable if driven hard. There are lots of posts of bad engines here but even more posts of good engines from people driving hard. Plus I think if we look at all of these cases, there may be a few common denominators such as MY/build date

As for how the v6 feels under the yellow situation of needing to go now, all I can say is no complaints here ☺ but I suppose it depends on the situation. If I'm in 6th gear at a low rpm then yes punching it may have a little lag but if I'm 4th at a high rpm then it's game over
 

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What I'm hearing described sounds like the Ram truck's eTorque system.

EDIT - I was wrong. This system is less than my old Subaru’s. It’s just an assist system.

Old - Yea that's how my 2015 Crosstrek Hybrid (Mild Hybrid) functioned. The "EV" mode allowed for start/stop (which is super smooth and less noticeable as you don't abruptly change over, since you glide under battery power to start/coast), and then off the line (and in traffic/parking lots) it drove on the battery alone before firing up the gas engine. But again, only for extremely slow functioning bc once your foot tips in at all it goes to gas. Parking lots was it's forte.

It really is just a way to increase City MPG, but I guess it could help with turbo lag between 1-2k RPMs before the engine wakes up.
 

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I'm just trying to fill in 5 years w/ "new" cars when we know that could just be refreshes or new iterations like the GTA/GTAm or 6C/Junior trims. I don't expect a Duetto or GTV before STLA, so I have crammed everything in.

Then again the Giulia was refreshed after 3 model years...

Giulia 952 MY17 - First NA cars
Giulia 952 MY20 - Refreshed interior
Doesn't even need to be any refresh. It could just be those so-called special editions like "6C Villa d'Este".
 
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Some notes:

I do not think Giulia 2.0 exhibits much turbo lag. I believe that it exhibits a lot of electronics lag. You punch it and how long before the transmission downshifts? That isn't turbo lag.

Just like internal combustion engines, higher RPMS for electric motors = less weight but lower efficiency. Compare the screaming 1/2 HP hand drill motor with the lumbering 1/2 HP bench grinder motor. In this case the smaller motor spins up to operating speed faster as well. Tesla is a bit mute regarding gearing and motor RPMs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
I think most 2.0L drivers have learned that simply "punching it" is not the recipe for a fast launch or best passing acceleration.
 

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I think most 2.0L drivers have learned that simply "punching it" is not the recipe for a fast launch or best passing acceleration.
I have almost zero experience with the GME 2.0, but as someone who has driven 4-cylinder (w/ and w/o turbos) for most of his life, I know that you typically need to downshift to be at 3,000 RPM+ to be in the power-band for the turbo to spool quickly. Typically, a two gear downshift is required (and that is assuming you are NOT in 7-8th gear). At that point, I would assume 4th or 5th gear is required on the highway for a strong pull (my brain doesn't think in 8 gears yet). Then add the Giulia being automatic and you are even slower when "punching it" as you wait for the car to downshift from the most fuel efficient (usually lowest RPM) gear.
 

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That's kind of the point... there's zero recipe for punchy "go now" acceleration. A proper mild hybrid has the chance of providing it. It's what happens (or in this case doesn't) in the first 2 seconds, that would benefit most. AMG added one to their model that adds 200 HP, which is way way more than you want in the base Giulia and is basically no longer a mild hybrid because the battery required to drive that kind of power is too heavy IMO, but if you can package something in the 100-150 Lb range, and get an instant 60-70 HP boost off the line, and heck even a noticable 60-70 kick when passing on the freeway, where the engine is already making more power.... that would be a game changer. People often think about top HP, but engines don't make 280 HP as you guys pointed out, they make 100, 150, 200, etc... as they rev. So now imagine 160, 210, 260, and at the top 340-350 HP (for a few seconds of course, which is where you need it in 90% of the use cases), as I said... game changer
 

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I also remember seeing Maserati launch hybrid versions of the 2.0L engines that our Giulias have and instantly wanted one, to be honest, for this exact reason. I don't think the Giulia's "lag" is all that much when needing to downshift, but a nice bit of electric boost in those laggy areas would make the Giulia Veloce even more of a beast than it is (in comparison with similar entry-level turbos). 330-345bhp on these cars would feel sublime.
 

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I also remember seeing Maserati launch hybrid versions of the 2.0L engines that our Giulias have and instantly wanted one, to be honest, for this exact reason. I don't think the Giulia's "lag" is all that much when needing to downshift, but a nice bit of electric boost in those laggy areas would make the Giulia Veloce even more of a beast than it is (in comparison with similar entry-level turbos). 330-345bhp on these cars would feel sublime.
The Ghibli GT Hybrid (mild hybrid, no e-motor, just an electric supercharger) is slower (5.7 0-60) and RWD. Hopefully Alfa can do better with Q4.
 

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The Ghibli GT Hybrid (mild hybrid, no e-motor, just an electric supercharger) is slower (5.7 0-60) and RWD. Hopefully Alfa can do better with Q4.
Probably because it is bigger&heavier i assume.

Question about “mild hybrid”, will a battery….does this kind of a system require additional motors to function?
 
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