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The AWD cars sit higher as they do have more ground clearance.

All the Giulias are shipped with suspension blocks that cause the cars to sit higher. The blocks are there to prevent the cars from rocking during shipping. The dealer is suppose to remove the blocks during PDI, but every great once-in-a-while, they forget. The car drives like crap this way because there is no suspension movement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Blocks aren't there but I suppose I'm trying to understand, mechanically, what causes the Q4 to sit higher.

Are the shocks the same on a Q4 and Q2?

Are the springs the same length? Understand that the rates are likely different.
 

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Blocks aren't there but I suppose I'm trying to understand, mechanically, what causes the Q4 to sit higher.

Are the shocks the same on a Q4 and Q2?

Are the springs the same length? Understand that the rates are likely different.
The obvious answer to the wheel gap question is that the car sits higher. I measured 1" higher in the front and 0.5" higher in the read.

I do not know why it sits higher. Maybe for ground clearance when driving on snow? Maybe to make something work in the front axle?

I also do not know what makes it sit higher and certainly would also like to know.

My guess is that the struts are longer in the front and the springs are longer in the back (maybe the shocks too) and pretty much everything else is the same. The front suspension issue will be complicated by the Q4 having completely different hubs than the RWD version.

Maybe MacGeek could check the parts list for what suspension components are different? (hopefully not "everything")
 

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I'm guessing the springs are different but i'm curious if the dampers are the same between the Q2 and Q4.
@MacGeek, please educate us
I'm with this idea. Dampers do not control ride height, unless they are air-shocks, which our Giulias don't have. Springs (rate & length) do directly effect ride height. Yes, why did they do this? is a good question. More ground clearance for snow and mud would be a logical reason. Trying to keep the front drive axles /CV joints straighter would also be a logical reason. Stiffer anti-roll bars would be used to help control body roll now that she sits higher.
 

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If you don't live in an area that has snow all winter, you don't realize how much snow and slush can stick to the inside of the wheel wells, and underside of a vehicle. If the temps are steadily below 30 degrees F, the snow doesn't melt, it just sticks and piles up. It's not unusual to see a couple of inches of dirty snow/slush stuck to the bottom of your car when you get to where you're going. Where I live, the city keeps the main streets cleared, but they don't plow the residential streets. Depending on how far from the main road you live, you can drive on snow for a ways before you get to a cleared road. The wheel gap might also be to accommodate chains for those people who have to have them; some areas require them depending on where you are.
 

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MacGeek nicely posted that pretty much the whole front suspension is different for Q4. It is not obvious what is different about the parts, we only know that they are different. I doubt that we can get the engineer to tell us anything about how to modify the design. I would not recommend using Q2 front suspension parts on a Q4 unless one is willing to do a lot of measuring and testing, or you can find someone else who has already done so.

That said, there is a nice diagram of the Q2 front suspension in this following video, about 30 seconds in:

Note that this is a coil-over design, so the shock length does adjust the suspension height. The lower part of the shock appears to be a simple tube with brackets welded on, and provides a place to adjust the length of the shock if you know a competent welder.

However, I see a small upper A arm with not a lot of clearance to the front spring. It doesn't look like the suspension has a lot of travel. If the shock is simply shortened that travel will be decreased in the compression direction but the travel stops (the spring looks like it is the upward travel stop) will be unaltered, so something may hit or break on the upward stroke.

It appears to me that a different upright is needed to lower the front suspension by much, and that is a large complex part to alter or design.

RacerZ correctly points out that adjusting the suspension height may increase stress on the CV joints, possibly causing wear, noise, vibration, and premature failure. Folks who lift 4WD vehicles have a lot of trouble with this.

The rear suspension looks like it has a lot more latitude to adjust the height. The CV joint problem still applies to the rear.

Regarding Eagle7s concern about snow packing in the wheel wells, I am going to guess that the rotating tire will act like a scraper and clear out "enough" of the muck to allow the suspension to move and the tire to spin. My Subaru Crosstrek has very little wheel well clearance (the dealer made me sign papers that I would not ever mount chains, due to inadequate clearance--Giulia has enough clearance for low profile chains) and it seemed to cope just fine--at least until I high centered it. Since boostedhybrid wants to lower the car I presume that he isn't planning to drive through deep muck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Great info Lockem and RacerZ... Thanks.

Its good to get this analysis because where is this going is I would like to lower the Q4 with Active Suspension but don't want to jump into the Q2 Eibachs without being somewhat sure that it can work. I really don't want to lose the functionality of the AS but despise the gap with all my being. I know a member has lowered their Q4 on Eibachs and they seem to work but don't want to get into bigger problems down the road. Hear anyone else lowering their Q4 on springs (Madness, Eibach or other)?

Snow and mud etc are not even a factor. That may happen once or twice a year...
 

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The minute I see "subframe" I know the difference is significant.

I'm wondering whether halfshaft clearance is the major driver.
 

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The minute I see "subframe" I know the difference is significant.

I'm wondering whether halfshaft clearance is the major driver.
I think it is impossible to say without a physical examination. Maybe the subframe is different to add mounting brackets for the front differential? Maybe it has notches for the half shafts?
 

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Great info Lockem and RacerZ... Thanks.

Its good to get this analysis because where is this going is I would like to lower the Q4 with Active Suspension but don't want to jump into the Q2 Eibachs without being somewhat sure that it can work. I really don't want to lose the functionality of the AS but despise the gap with all my being. I know a member has lowered their Q4 on Eibachs and they seem to work but don't want to get into bigger problems down the road. Hear anyone else lowering their Q4 on springs (Madness, Eibach or other)?

Snow and mud etc are not even a factor. That may happen once or twice a year...
One more detail to watch for: there is a wiring harness that extends to the suspension (brake pad wear sensor--I'm surprised there is no brake temperature sensor as well). There already is an RRT fix for the harness being too short. Will changing the suspension height cause problems for this cable? I dunno, but it is yet another thing to examine.

The suspension might have bump stops that are not depicted in the video diagram. If so, lowering the suspension should be somewhat "safer" than if the binding of the spring coil is expected to stop the travel.

From my own perspective of wanting a hybrid pneumatic suspension, I see that there is little to no space for a pneumatic spring in the front (no issue at all in the rear), making coming up with a "simple" design highly problematic.
 

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The minute I see "subframe" I know the difference is significant.

I'm wondering whether halfshaft clearance is the major driver.
I think it is impossible to say without a physical examination. Maybe the subframe is different to add mounting brackets for the front differential? Maybe it has notches for the half shafts?
Agree. A separately-tooled part (I'm guessing the subframe is a machined casting) represents a sizable financial commitment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

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If the Madness' springs cause something to break, I presume they would be helpful in fixing the issue that their springs caused. Curious that they say 1.4" lowering, without specifying which model car.

I don't see Q4 as a crossover. Subaru Crosstrek is a crossover, as-is Stelvio. They sit a lot higher than Giulia Q2 or Q4, but neither has the carrying capacity or serious off road capability of an SUV (Where does the winch go? Where do you hook the high-lift jack?). Oh yeah, Crosstrek has bash plates on the underside and mud guards; more "minimum required to be a CUV" stuff, I'm not sure that Stelvio has those features.

I thought "subframe" refers to the stamped steel, welded piece that wraps around the engine, onto which the suspension mounts. Am I wrong? If I am right, it is part of the crash protection system and very expensive to alter because of the testing required of any changes, but it is not cast.
 
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