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What do you think an undriven 2023 QV would be worth in 2035?

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I have a Giulia GTV, and for decades the sedans were worth 20 to 40 percent of the coupes. In recent years, they have increased to being worth 50 to 70 percent of the coupes which is a good thing, but proves my point about sedans trailing coupes and convertibles.

If you want to buy a future Alfa collectable, a 4C is a much safer choice.
The statement of "... sedans trailing coupes and convertibles..." is much more accurate than the statement of "... Sedans don't well as collectables, and I don't see any Giulia breaking that mold....". I think that the 2017-2025 Giulia Quadrifoglio will be a collectible car from 2050 on. Yes, the price of the gas will be $20/gal then but, to drive the QV from home to some locals C&Cs will be only a $300/yr expense.
 

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10 years isn't a long time, even with the impending EVpocalypse, but 25-30 is a much more reasonable timeframe. Agreed that the 4C is going to be a much more collectable car, but the Giulia as a whole will still be a legend.

This makes me realize more and more that I need a QV in my life
 

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2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
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So, these Giulias were only $6K brand new and now, $23K - $54K about 50 years later. Wow!. Those are truly collectables sedans.

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Those are not the high end GTV and were closer to $4k. Collectible yes; good investment not so much. It is not as-if one bought a Lamborghini Miura in 1986 for $45k and sold it recently for $1000k.
 

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Those are not the high end GTV and were closer to $4k. Collectible yes; good investment not so much. It is not as-if one bought a Lamborghini Miura in 1986 for $45k and sold it recently for $1000k.
$4K in 1972 and $37.5K in 2022 not a good investment?. Really? $4K in 1972 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $30.5K today, an increase of $26,543.92 over 52 years. The dollar had an average inflation rate of 3.99% per year between 1970 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 663.60%. So, those Giulias are only collectible sedans but an investment, for sure. Who can compare the Alfa Romeo league versus the Lamborghini league?. None sense.
 

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2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio
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Its important to note that nobody really knows for sure. Maybe by 2035 as these cars age they will become too expensive to work on that interest is lost. Maybe by 2035 some fuel alternative comes out stemming the end of the ICE. Its really impossible to tell. Cars that people used to throw away are worth a good amount of money in some cases, while others never really appreciated. But in the same respect also sometimes the market ages out. The "60's Muscle Car boom" has died off quite a bit from its highs.

Also the example of buying a Giulia in 1967 for $5k and adding inflation is a bit incorrect. $5,000 in 1967 is $44,336 today. You would have made WAY more money throwing it into an index fund. And that ignores all the things that go into keeping a car for 50 years in the condition that a collector would want to pay serious money to buy it. From storage to tires, fuel, engine seals etc. Unless you keep it in a climate controlled chamber, then you have the HVAC costs. So look again at those prices and tell me its worth it. Nope.
 

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$4K in 1972 and $37.5K in 2022 not a good investment?. Really? $4K in 1972 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $30.5K today, an increase of $26,543.92 over 52 years. The dollar had an average inflation rate of 3.99% per year between 1970 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 663.60%. So, those Giulias are only collectible sedans but an investment, for sure. Who can compare the Alfa Romeo league versus the Lamborghini league?. None sense.
That is correct, not quite 10x over 55 years ($4.2k MSRP was for the 1967 Ti) is not a good investment. Dow Jones in 1967: about $900, now about $31000. That is 34x and sets the floor for a decent investment over the time period. Of course tax (higher for stock market) and maintenance (higher for car) differ substantially between the two

Also, you believe the inflation figures that the government publishes? They are always low. The government has many expenses that are tied to that published inflation rate (like Social Security cost of living adjustments) so your congress critter is highly motivated to manipulate the figures to make it look lower than it actually is. Although congress does not gather the data or publish the figures, they do regulate the basis for the computation. From my anecdotal observations, inflation moves in large spikes (like the current situation) and it is those spikes that get understated by the rules.
 

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Sometimes, i do wonder how long the SoCs/circuit-boards used in all the electronics in these new cars will last. The old cars don't have to worry about that. Replacing these boards in today's cars will be a nightmare when the time comes.
 

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That is correct, not quite 10x over 55 years ($4.2k MSRP was for the 1967 Ti) is not a good investment. Dow Jones in 1967: about $900, now about $31000. That is 34x and sets the floor for a decent investment over the time period. Of course tax (higher for stock market) and maintenance (higher for car) differ substantially between the two

Also, you believe the inflation figures that the government publishes? They are always low. The government has many expenses that are tied to that published inflation rate (like Social Security cost of living adjustments) so your congress critter is highly motivated to manipulate the figures to make it look lower than it actually is. Although congress does not gather the data or publish the figures, they do regulate the basis for the computation. From my anecdotal observations, inflation moves in large spikes (like the current situation) and it is those spikes that get understated by the rules.
Interesting. NASDAQ in 1972 was $916 and it's 13X today. The S&P500 in 1972 was $768 and it's 5X today. So, a 9.4X investment is decently OK using those two metrics. An average inflation rate of 3.99% per year between 1970 and today it is for sure governmental manipulated but, it's pretty much close to reality I think. Evidently, we need to forget the Nov2020 - Sep2022 disaster and a couple of historic event around WW2 and the 80's.

Rectangle Slope Plot Line Font
 

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2022 Giulia Ti RWD in Moonlight w/ Black Interior
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Unless the car gets a Mr. Fusion and hover upgrade, it's unlikely that anyone would be buying the car to drive/fly it on a regular basis in a decade. In 30 years, I think it might have value sitting in someone's collection, but by then they would be touting the fact that it even has the original gasoline ("it's like electricity, but in a liquid"), and only start the engine briefly to impress their date. In the latter case, with the car being a legitimate collector's item, they would probably shell out a few billion dollars for it in 30 years. If it's just viewed as a relic of a misguided fossil fuel past, you might only get a few million from a kid working at a McDonalds who is planning on converting it to fusion/hover once he saves up the $30 million or so to cover the cost of the parts.
 

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Interesting. NASDAQ in 1972 was $916 and it's 13X today. The S&P500 in 1972 was $768 and it's 5X today. So, a 9.4X investment is decently OK using those two metrics. An average inflation rate of 3.99% per year between 1970 and today it is for sure governmental manipulated but, it's pretty much close to reality I think. Evidently, we need to forget the Nov2020 - Sep2022 disaster and a couple of historic event around WW2 and the 80's.

View attachment 132804
I do not know where you get your numbers from:
Nasdaq composite only started in 1971 and was $100 at the time and now $11500, a 115x yield over 51 years. In 1972 it was $115, not $916.

S&P500 was $123 in 1982 and is 32x that today. From Google
Rectangle Slope Plot Font Line

You can "time" start and end dates to make these indices look better or worse, it is pretty meaningless to do so when discussing expected performance.

In the case of the car it was built in 1967, so we expect more yield than the above to call it a good investment.

IMO the current high inflation is a consequence of the severe economic lockdowns that were started in March 2020. Telling business owners that they still have to pay their bills, but aren't allowed to operate is going to have some nasty long term consequences. It is not unlike the consequences of the lock downs associated with a major war and the inflation that follows after the war is over. The "scientists" never brought up the issue of how many people will die early from said economic issues.

Also IMO current inflation is around 30-40%, not the 8% that the government is claiming. I don't think it will persist for long at that rate and we may even see deflation once things have settled down after the end of the lockdown. I think raising interest rates right now will only make things worse; it is not "normal inflation" that can be combated by cooling the economy.
 

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Interesting. NASDAQ in 1972 was $916 and it's 13X today. The S&P500 in 1972 was $768 and it's 5X today. So, a 9.4X investment is decently OK using those two metrics. An average inflation rate of 3.99% per year between 1970 and today it is for sure governmental manipulated but, it's pretty much close to reality I think. Evidently, we need to forget the Nov2020 - Sep2022 disaster and a couple of historic event around WW2 and the 80's.

View attachment 132804
Something tells me you were not an economics major.
 

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I do not know where you get your numbers from:
Nasdaq composite only started in 1971 and was $100 at the time and now $11500, a 115x yield over 51 years. In 1972 it was $115, not $916.

S&P500 was $123 in 1982 and is 32x that today. From Google
View attachment 132814
You can "time" start and end dates to make these indices look better or worse, it is pretty meaningless to do so when discussing expected performance.

In the case of the car it was built in 1967, so we expect more yield than the above to call it a good investment.

IMO the current high inflation is a consequence of the severe economic lockdowns that were started in March 2020. Telling business owners that they still have to pay their bills, but aren't allowed to operate is going to have some nasty long term consequences. It is not unlike the consequences of the lock downs associated with a major war and the inflation that follows after the war is over. The "scientists" never brought up the issue of how many people will die early from said economic issues.

Also IMO current inflation is around 30-40%, not the 8% that the government is claiming. I don't think it will persist for long at that rate and we may even see deflation once things have settled down after the end of the lockdown. I think raising interest rates right now will only make things worse; it is not "normal inflation" that can be combated by cooling the economy.
Evidently, from Google. I am not an Economics major, clearly but, a simple Google user. Based on Google, the NASDAQ in October 1972 was $912 (0r $916 as I said earlier) and the S&P500 in October 1972 was $781 (0r $768 as I said earlier). That is 12X and 5X versus current, respectively, also as I said earlier. In any case, as my last one post on this subject, a $4K investment in 1972 to get a 9X or $37.5K in 2022 is a decent investment for me.

Rectangle Slope Plot Font Parallel


Slope Rectangle Plot Font Parallel
 

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Evidently, from Google. I am not an Economics major, clearly but, a simple Google user. Based on Google, the NASDAQ in October 1972 was $912 (0r $916 as I said earlier) and the S&P500 in October 1972 was $781 (0r $768 as I said earlier). That is 12X and 5X versus current, respectively, also as I said earlier. In any case, as my last one post on this subject, a $4K investment in 1972 to get a 9X or $37.5K in 2022 is a decent investment for me.

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View attachment 132817
Hmmm, NASDAQ is a stock exchange, not a stock index. I would not call investing in the exchange a good idea. My quote is for a popular stock index of stocks that are traded on the NASDAQ exchange.

I have no clue what you might be doing with the S&P 500. The graph I posted came from Google and is radically different from your graph. S&P 500 has averaged 15% yield for decades. It really is the standard to beat (investing in the S&P 500 is very low cost), as many mutual funds do not manage to match the performance.

I just ran this search


and clicked on MAX history. Google doesn't seem to want to provide records prior to 1982.
Wikipedia shows S&P 500 being up 234x from 1970 to 2021 (that has dropped down this year, but it is still well above 100x)


Also this chart showing S&P 500 never being near $700 in the 1970s; in fact not reaching that mark until the late 1990s.

 

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a $4K investment in 1972 to get a 9X or $37.5K in 2022 is a decent investment for me.
You're completely ignoring that the buying power of both is the same. You didn't actually gain any money, everything got more expensive and your money sitting in the car adjusted to compensate.
 

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My answer would be....it won't be worth as much as you think. 10 years isn't really a lot in terms of a car becoming a collectable unless it's some ultra rare very limited production piece - but it is an awfully long time to store a car. IMO I'd prefer a 'gently' used low mileage 10yo qv vs. one that sat in storage. But all it takes is 1 buyer with more $ than they know what to do with looking for something unique for their collection and you may make out very well.

If you want an 'investment', buy a quantity of qv components (ECUs, BCMs, and any other black box that's in there) and store them for 10 years.....
 

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I think very few modern cars now will be on the road in 15 years, too many critical electrical components will fail or be unable to be sourced or repaired. Only older simpler vehicles maybe, if not outlawed. Like my 1952 Army M37 Weapons Carrier. Prehistoric and not complicated. Just need a 3/4 inch wrench and socket set to keep on the road. NV
 
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