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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All,

Drove the Giulia and Stelvio this weekend hoping to convince my wife to trade in our 2015 Grand Cherokee Overland Diesel. We really loved everything about the cars but were mystified how ventilated seats weren't even an option? I guess we are a bit spoiled now that our 2015 Ram and 2015 Grand have this option. How did the Alfa product planners miss this? The Grand's sticker was around 55k when we bought it and we drove a 2018 Stelvio that matched it tick for tick on options and MSRP, but the Stelvio lacked the ventilated seats and the electric steering wheel adjustment that the Jeep has.

I read a NY times article on the Stelvio and the complained about the lack of ventilated seats as well. When I worked for Fiat back in 2004 in Mirafiori we had the very first prototypes of the ventilated seats ready to go into production. I'm mystified that 14 years later that feature is missing in a Luxury Sedan and SUV.

http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/la...io-ti-sport-first-drive-suv-article-1.3270520

Sandro
1976 Alfa Romeo Spider
1988 Alfa Romeo Milano Verde
2015 Grand Cherokee Overland 3.0VM
2015 Ram 1500 3.0VM
2012 Fiat 500 Abarth
 

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Given the timeframe and the location you quoted, I suppose you were referring to the Lancia Thesis, which was available with the ventilated Comfort Seats.

At this point I don't have any info regarding ventilated seats on the Giulia. Perhaps they decided having them was not important on a car that focuses on sportiness, I don't know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I feel bad for the Dealers

I feel bad for the dealers. While I was at the dealer on Saturday they say almost every customer that is cross shopping the Stelvio with the X3 and Q5 can't believe the Stelvio doesn't have this feature and they leave. Unfortunately this is not a feature you can add. I can see for the Giulia but for the Stelvio this was an epic blunder by FCA....


When I was with Fiat we did a features analysis and made sure we didn't have any product feature gaps I can't believe this got through to production.


Sandro
 

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This reminds me of why the quad only has black seats or 3 limited interior packages. I tried to rationalize that it was due to the alcantara. Then I learned that alcantara is not any heavier or lighter than real hide depending on the thickness that is selected. There really isn't any reason a tan alcantara could not be used as well, since it is synthetic, but then maybe that looks too much like a Ferrari or Maserati and something had to be done to stop it ;) Wonder how much an upholstery shop would charge for custom seat covers?
 
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I feel bad for the dealers. While I was at the dealer on Saturday they say almost every customer that is cross shopping the Stelvio with the X3 and Q5 can't believe the Stelvio doesn't have this feature and they leave. Unfortunately this is not a feature you can add. I can see for the Giulia but for the Stelvio this was an epic blunder by FCA....


When I was with Fiat we did a features analysis and made sure we didn't have any product feature gaps I can't believe this got through to production.


Sandro
Good point. To me SUV/CUV equals long trips or commutes.
 
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2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sport Ti AWD
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I feel bad for the dealers. While I was at the dealer on Saturday they say almost every customer that is cross shopping the Stelvio with the X3 and Q5 can't believe the Stelvio doesn't have this feature and they leave. Unfortunately this is not a feature you can add. I can see for the Giulia but for the Stelvio this was an epic blunder by FCA....

When I was with Fiat we did a features analysis and made sure we didn't have any product feature gaps I can't believe this got through to production.
I doubt it got through. It was probably discussed and discarded. While I like the feature (and agree slightly that its place is more on the Stelvio than on the Giulia) I am happy with my car's perforated seats. They breathe fairly well, and I haven't noticed any hot spots. They're also not black.
 

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I feel bad for the dealers. While I was at the dealer on Saturday they say almost every customer that is cross shopping the Stelvio with the X3 and Q5 can't believe the Stelvio doesn't have this feature and they leave. Unfortunately this is not a feature you can add. I can see for the Giulia but for the Stelvio this was an epic blunder by FCA....
I must have just missed you on Saturday. I agree with you 100% - it seems like the dealers are trying pretty hard but have limited info available to them. I have been trying for weeks to find out when the Performance Package (limited slip and adaptive dampers) will be available on the Stelvio without much luck from dealers or corporate.
 

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Epic blunder? Leaving dealerships because Q5 has that feature?
Maybe thats the best for Alfa...I can just imagine posts how certain small seat area does not have sufficient ventilation or that fan only has 5 speeds while MB has 7....outrageous....for me I can only say that requirement for ventilated seats didn’t even enter my mind let alone be a prerequisite for choosing Alfa and am coming from 20 years of Geman performance cars
 

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This reminds me of why the quad only has black seats or 3 limited interior packages. I tried to rationalize that it was due to the alcantara. Then I learned that alcantara is not any heavier or lighter than real hide depending on the thickness that is selected. There really isn't any reason a tan alcantara could not be used as well, since it is synthetic, but then maybe that looks too much like a Ferrari or Maserati and something had to be done to stop it ;) Wonder how much an upholstery shop would charge for custom seat covers?
I have not pursued putting Sparco seats in my Ti Q4 for this reason. Apparently the Sparcos are only available with the upholstery that Sparco wants to sell; no custom anything for AR. Maybe an upholstery shop could strip the seat down, add a seat heater, then reupholster in red leather to match the OEM AR color? That's a stupid pricey project and one loses the cool AR embossed logo on the headrest in the process <sigh>.

My wife can't remember that her car has simple seat heaters. She spent half the summer driving around with them on before I borrowed the car and noticed the fault; it doesn't help that Subaru tucked the switches away so that they are hard to see. That makes it hard for me to understand how seat ventilation is such a deal breaker. I don't understand how ventilated or heated seats make LONG drives more comfortable. To me these are features for short drives, when the HVAC does not have a chance to adjust the interior of the car to be comfortable.

One article I read on ventilated seats indicated that they might be used to allow a mfg to claim better fuel economy, on the principal that it takes less energy to cool just the seat than the whole car interior. My experience is that radiative heat is the major source of discomfort in a hot car and reducing the heat radiating from the interior components requires cooling the entire interior. Anyway, check and see if those cars with ventilated seats have "weak" air conditioners.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Epic blunder? Leaving dealerships because Q5 has that feature?
Maybe thats the best for Alfa...I can just imagine posts how certain small seat area does not have sufficient ventilation or that fan only has 5 speeds while MB has 7....outrageous....for me I can only say that requirement for ventilated seats didn’t even enter my mind let alone be a prerequisite for choosing Alfa and am coming from 20 years of Geman performance cars
How can it be best for Alfa to sell less cars???? The lack of ventilated seats comes up in almost every article written on the Stelvio. I've owned Alfa's for 25 years and they always had all of the lastest features years before the competition, including the Germans, ie.. the 164S.


I'm just saying that when you start with a clean piece of paper there shouldn't be anything that can be criticized as a lack in features when the technology is available even on an Accord.


This article mentions that with if the Alfa had ventilated seats and the 360 camera it would be a better buy than the Jaguar F-Pace that sells for 17,000 more.


https://www.cars.com/articles/jaguar-f-pace-or-alfa-romeo-stelvio-a-17000-question-1420696975662/


Sandro
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I must have just missed you on Saturday. I agree with you 100% - it seems like the dealers are trying pretty hard but have limited info available to them. I have been trying for weeks to find out when the Performance Package (limited slip and adaptive dampers) will be available on the Stelvio without much luck from dealers or corporate.


Hi Joe,


I think we just missed each other by a few minutes. I thought I'd be leaving with a Stelvio like you did but couldn't justify spending 55k and not having my wife be happy. We'll keep the Jeep until the Alfa midyear refresh in 2020ish or wait for the 2020 Jeep built on the Georgio Platform (that will have all cool new features)


Need to call my Uncle Guido Sarduchi in Arese and see if FCA can get some ventilated seats out of his 1987 Fiat Panda and get them in the 2020 Giulia and Stelvio. :):grin2: While am at it maybe we can snag a 6 speed manual out of the 156 GTA to put in the Giulia so the maybe they could sell more than 900 cars a month here!!


Sandro
 

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I'd say a bigger blunder is not having the bicycle rack or trailer hitch available, even for stelvios, in the US.
it's not that tough, u-haul or a bunch of other fabrication shops would jump at the chance to officially supply such items.

ventilated seats just seem like trouble and and a source of complaints to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'd say a bigger blunder is not having the bicycle rack or trailer hitch available, even for stelvios, in the US.
it's not that tough, u-haul or a bunch of other fabrication shops would jump at the chance to officially supply such items.

ventilated seats just seem like trouble and and a source of complaints to me.
The Technology is very archaic and very trouble free actually its been around for 15 years and pound for pound you can make killer profit on it for the cost...


About the accessories, FCA made the same mistake when the 500 came out. It took a year to get the trailer hitch out the excuse then was all the fabricators went out of business in 2008 during the crisis. It was fun explaining that to customers with a car that had been launched in 2007. This was 2011, looks like the same niece or nephew working at FCA as an "intern" in charge of aftermarket parts is still there... lol


Sandro
 

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If I have to complaint about my sport sedan (QV) not having ventilated seats, then I bought the wrong car, maybe a Cadillac would have better suited my needs .... to each it’s own, but really ..... ventilated seats in a sports car?

I have ventilated seats in my 911 that I have never used.... anyone want to buy them?
 
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Not even something I’d consider on a car like this. There’s always the perforated leather in sport package, they seem like they breathe well.... but I’m guessing someone looking for ventilated seats is not going to be comfortable in the sport seats. I sure as **** don’t like them, but they look nice.
 

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Are you kidding?

I have a Grand Cherokee Overland. Love it. I have used the ventilated seats maybe once. I use the heated seats all winter.

Now I have a Giulia Q4 Lusso Ti. I would drive it any time over the Jeep, and I love the Jeep.

Be a man.
 

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You have to consider the predicted take rate for the option before designing, sourcing, validating, testing and integrating something. I may be wrong, but I'm not seeing a great deal of D-segment cars on the market being specced with seat ventilation.

As for the manual transmission, sorry to burst your bubble, but in the markets and on the versions where the choice between manual and automatic is available, people are overwhelmingly opting for the - more expensive to purchase - automatic. That includes the Quadrifoglio.
 

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"archaic and trouble free"
I guess we used to be able to say that about heat in a car but with computers controlling everything, nothing is simple.
I suspect the unsolvable heater problem on another post can be traced to higher coolant temperatures required for emissions and mandated fuel economy standards, resulting in a fear of having exceedingly hot coolant leaking into an interior, resulting in a very complex solution to the most simple of functions.
 

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