Alfa Romeo Giulia Forum banner

41 - 60 of 62 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
Do you have one of these pedals? It either will or won't help, some people who have one say it will help, and others say it won't. MFGs of course say it will, but the math says it won't. People who own them seem split, leaning towards "it will". I'd sure like to know that it'll help before I drop a couple benjis on the project.
Me too. ..and have that dongle hanging around the footwell or wherever. (Btw the Bluetooth option doesn't seem to be currently available arm for Giulias, if so why?). Could you accomplish the same thing just by using D mode more? I'm prepared to try it but I don't see the point if it's the same as just pushing your foot down faster.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,752 Posts
Do you have one of these pedals? It either will or won't help, some people who have one say it will help, and others say it won't. MFGs of course say it will, but the math says it won't. People who own them seem split, leaning towards "it will". I'd sure like to know that it'll help before I drop a couple benjis on the project.
30 day money back guarantee on the Madness GoPedal of you don’t like it. Basically no risk to give it a try.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,503 Posts
Do you have one of these pedals? It either will or won't help, some people who have one say it will help, and others say it won't. MFGs of course say it will, but the math says it won't. People who own them seem split, leaning towards "it will". I'd sure like to know that it'll help before I drop a couple benjis on the project.
I think Madness (not sure about the others) offer a 30 day money back so you can give it a try and see if it works for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
302 Posts
Something occurred to me on this subject while driving today. For the people experiencing the lag; is the transmission up to full operating temp? The ZF 8 trans has noticeably slower shift (both up and down) response when he trans is below full operating temp.

Please note that trans temp is different then engine temp. On vehicles with a temp guage it usually takes an extra 10 - 15 minutes of normal driving for the trans to come up to temp on a vehicle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kc07zrv

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Something occurred to me on this subject while driving today. For the people experiencing the lag; is the transmission up to full operating temp? The ZF 8 trans has noticeably slower shift (both up and down) response when he trans is below full operating temp.

Please note that trans temp is different then engine temp. On vehicles with a temp guage it usually takes an extra 10 - 15 minutes of normal driving for the trans to come up to temp on a vehicle.
I can also vouch for this throttle lag. It is noticeably worse for me in Natural mode versus Dynamic -- but still bad either way. Never seems to change regardless of how long you drive the vehicle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
I feel there are 2 threads in this thread. One about transmission and the other throttle pedal lag. First one seems to be around jerky transition of gears? that seems what OP was talking about? I am not getting any jerky transition with mine so i'd say have shop check out the operation of gearbox.

The other part that's surround the DBW setup of modern cars, often they are "softened" for the early part of throttle pedal movement to smooth out car for stop/go and around town driving. Some manufactures "soften" more then the other, combined with also "lazy" gear shift to promote comfort and gas mileage, the result is a very laggy response from a good driving experience. The purpose of these throttle pedal devices are to make the throttle pedal response more linear. It does not do anything else other than car's existing programs to shift gear based on aggressiveness of throttle input. Since this "softening" of pedal input is artificial, this is why RDNA modes can easily modify pedal input and make it respond as programed.

This is why FD's DBW unit is likely to be superior because it not only taken in input from pedal but also from gearbox and other inputs etc. My experience was however with earlier Cambio Corsa/F1/Selespeed system and FD's DBW completely transformed that system so well I didn't worry driving that car in stop/go traffic for my 13 mph average of commute. I would imaging FD had further improved their DBW module since.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
476 Posts
On the other hand, I have driven cars where the manufacturer wanted the driver to think that their car was immensely powerful because just barely pushing on the throttle would make the car leap forward. To give the owner a moment of ".... whoa, this thing is very powerful" with all the throttle movement in the first half inch of travel, with nothing after that. This was in the days before "drive by wire' and ECU's.

Ah, the days of mechanical linkages, when you could lean over the engine, and play with the carbs linkage. And adjust Holley float levels, change Power Valves and jets, and swap in advance springs. Using the White spring was like having a double pumper. Had a few carb fires too.

like these....

DSC_3543.JPG


Be safe, NV
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Discussion Starter #49
I feel there are 2 threads in this thread. One about transmission and the other throttle pedal lag. First one seems to be around jerky transition of gears? that seems what OP was talking about? I am not getting any jerky transition with mine so i'd say have shop check out the operation of gearbox.

The other part that's surround the DBW setup of modern cars, often they are "softened" for the early part of throttle pedal movement to smooth out car for stop/go and around town driving. Some manufactures "soften" more then the other, combined with also "lazy" gear shift to promote comfort and gas mileage, the result is a very laggy response from a good driving experience. The purpose of these throttle pedal devices are to make the throttle pedal response more linear. It does not do anything else other than car's existing programs to shift gear based on aggressiveness of throttle input. Since this "softening" of pedal input is artificial, this is why RDNA modes can easily modify pedal input and make it respond as programed.

This is why FD's DBW unit is likely to be superior because it not only taken in input from pedal but also from gearbox and other inputs etc. My experience was however with earlier Cambio Corsa/F1/Selespeed system and FD's DBW completely transformed that system so well I didn't worry driving that car in stop/go traffic for my 13 mph average of commute. I would imaging FD had further improved their DBW module since.
So the problem that I'm bringing up is the "sleepiness" when taking off from a light or a full stop. Sometimes it seems like there is no issue at all and the car takes off. Other times I jab the throttle and there is a momentary hesitation before anything happens at the tires- sometimes this feels like an eternity, especially when you are trying to cut out in front of a dump truck lumbering up the road. I call it "pedal lag" because my foot is halfway down, but nothing is happening- there's some time between hitting the throttle and the tires engaging. Whether that is a delay between the accelerator and the engine, or the engine and the transmission, I don't know.

There seem to be other threads where people complain about a lag at speed going from foot on gas-foot off gas-foot on gas again, where the transmission shudders, as if it's catching up to inputs. I experience that too, but only occasionally and that's not what I'm asking about here.

I experimented with left foot braking at a stop sign, and that does seem to fix the problem. As the engine is already engaged, there's no dead spot before taking off. I previously experimented with driving in manual mode, and that does NOT seem to fix the problem, though it is lessened.
 

·
Registered
2018 Giulia Quattroformaggio, 2020 Stelvio TI Sport
Joined
·
306 Posts
Ah, the days of mechanical linkages, when you could lean over the engine, and play with the carbs linkage. And adjust Holley float levels, change Power Valves and jets, and swap in advance springs. Using the White spring was like having a double pumper. Had a few carb fires too.
Or Dellortos...

101323


101324
 

·
Registered
20 Ti
Joined
·
36 Posts
So the problem that I'm bringing up is the "sleepiness" when taking off from a light or a full stop...I call it "pedal lag" because my foot is halfway down, but nothing is happening- there's some time between hitting the throttle.
I do believe that is DBW throttle lag, which I've been battling in one form or another since the year 2000 with my first "nice/new" car, a Mk4 1.8t Golf, after getting my teenage beater years out of the way.

It existed and bothered me in various forms since: G37, Lexus ES, Chrysler Pacifica (van not crossover) and JL Wrangler. Transmission hesitation and lackadaisical programming is often comorbid and results in what others have mentioned re: hesitation at speed, no response until kickdown, etc.

The root of our problem is the near-dead-spot / intentional slow ramp up to throttle that seems to be programmed in as either a torque management function to protect the driveline (I think the ZF8 does this as well on the trans side in various scenarios) or to avoid wheelspin in low traction situations - or for emissions somehow, more prominent in N and A. Just like in my previous DBW cars, a measured, "surf down, ride the boost wave" application of throttle seems to be interpreted better than "stab to the floor." Apologies for the weird descriptions.

Honestly this lack of response can be dangerous, esp in areas where you need immediate, judicious throttle to avoid being squished, i.e., leaving a driveway with your entire family in the car, onto a high-speed frontage road where traffic is already going 70 and slowing down is for suckers - I'm looking at you Texas. haha.

I plan on getting a throttle controller (pedal box, etc.) from a reputable company soon and can reach out to you with feedback if you like, since what you're describing is essentially pet peeve #1 lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Discussion Starter #52
I do believe that is DBW throttle lag, which I've been battling in one form or another since the year 2000 with my first "nice/new" car, a Mk4 1.8t Golf, after getting my teenage beater years out of the way.

It existed and bothered me in various forms since: G37, Lexus ES, Chrysler Pacifica (van not crossover) and JL Wrangler. Transmission hesitation and lackadaisical programming is often comorbid and results in what others have mentioned re: hesitation at speed, no response until kickdown, etc.

The root of our problem is the near-dead-spot / intentional slow ramp up to throttle that seems to be programmed in as either a torque management function to protect the driveline (I think the ZF8 does this as well on the trans side in various scenarios) or to avoid wheelspin in low traction situations - or for emissions somehow, more prominent in N and A. Just like in my previous DBW cars, a measured, "surf down, ride the boost wave" application of throttle seems to be interpreted better than "stab to the floor." Apologies for the weird descriptions.

Honestly this lack of response can be dangerous, esp in areas where you need immediate, judicious throttle to avoid being squished, i.e., leaving a driveway with your entire family in the car, onto a high-speed frontage road where traffic is already going 70 and slowing down is for suckers - I'm looking at you Texas. haha.

I plan on getting a throttle controller (pedal box, etc.) from a reputable company soon and can reach out to you with feedback if you like, since what you're describing is essentially pet peeve #1 lol.
That's exactly what I'm describing. Most annoying thing about this car, and mine is a 17 with all the fixin's. I now either predict the .5 second delay before anything happens, or left foot brake when I need to squirt out into traffic. The car has the means, it just doesn't seem to want to get it done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
You should definitely give these pedal things a try. They transform how car reacts to your inputs from sleepy/laggy to a much linear feel of pedal to power ratio. Don't go over with them though, too much and it will be touchy in D or Race mode.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
Eurocompulsion are promoting a new FR controller that they get from Dimsport in Italy. It seems to have the best of both worlds - an in car toggle controller and Bluetooth connectivity " coming soon". Seems attractive. Anybody tried these?. Seems to involve a little more setting up, otherwise are all these devices pretty much the same?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
So I did some "testing" which really just means driving my car...I think this is a problem of the transmission limiting torque off the line and trying to decide how to handle power output. It doesn't seem to matter whether my car is in manual or auto mode, if I stab it then there isn't much action until the giulia decides it's time.

I think I either need to learn pedal finesse to coax the thing forward or try a pedal tuner, but i've found at least one thread on this issue that suggests a pedal tune did not help with this specific issue.

Also, FWIW as a reminder, this is NOT turbo lag. This engine has more power between 1200 and 2200 RPM than many of the cars I've owned, and they could all get out of their own way better than this can from a stop.
I think you’re into to something there with the “finesse” comment. Rather than mash the throttle to the floor, I ease it in and find she just takes off (Veloce) now I’m not saying by easing the pedal that it’s a slow press. More of a feed in. By mashing to the floor you have the ECM’s figuring out what to do before enabling full power/ boost.

Refining the pedal push and showing a little sympathy seems to pay off!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,752 Posts
Eurocompulsion are promoting a new FR controller that they get from Dimsport in Italy. It seems to have the best of both worlds - an in car toggle controller and Bluetooth connectivity " coming soon". Seems attractive. Anybody tried these?. Seems to involve a little more setting up, otherwise are all these devices pretty much the same?
Are you talking about a throttle controller? Wasn’t sure what FR mean. That’s what Madness currently offer with their GoPedal, BT + in car controller.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rocerone

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
Are you talking about a throttle controller? Wasn’t sure what FR mean. That’s what Madness currently offer with their GoPedal, BT + in car controller.
It's like the Madness Go pedal but it has both in- car dongle and Bluetooth(soon apparently) you don't have to choose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
I believe these work, there won’t be a lag pressing the throttle if the throttle is already being told to be at ‘20%’ (0%+x%) whilst you’re sat on the brake.

Unfortunately I don’t think these are really an option for me as it’s such an easy get-out for an insurance company (UK insurance is extremely picky) if an accident were to happen and they found a throttle manipulation device. I have no idea who would even insure it.

On VW you can adjust throttle sensitivity using their version of MES with a few clicks. So if I was inclined I could give the wife’s diesel Tiguan the same throttle sensitivity as a Golf R very easily. You can choose from 1 to 5 or something like that.

Surprised there isn’t something similar in the Alfa’s coding - it must be adjustable somewhere. Unfortunately beyond my own capabilities to go looking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,752 Posts
It's like the Madness Go pedal but it has both in- car dongle and Bluetooth(soon apparently) you don't have to choose.
That’s the same as the GoPedal, comes with both, and available now!

 
  • Like
Reactions: MADNESS Autoworks

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,752 Posts
I believe these work, there won’t be a lag pressing the throttle if the throttle is already being told to be at ‘20%’ (0%+x%) whilst you’re sat on the brake.

Unfortunately I don’t think these are really an option for me as it’s such an easy get-out for an insurance company (UK insurance is extremely picky) if an accident were to happen and they found a throttle manipulation device. I have no idea who would even insure it.

On VW you can adjust throttle sensitivity using their version of MES with a few clicks. So if I was inclined I could give the wife’s diesel Tiguan the same throttle sensitivity as a Golf R very easily. You can choose from 1 to 5 or something like that.

Surprised there isn’t something similar in the Alfa’s coding - it must be adjustable somewhere. Unfortunately beyond my own capabilities to go looking.
Unless you’re in the hospital in a coma, I’m not sure how the insurance company would ever discover one of these devices. They can literally be uninstalled in 2 mins If you’re concerned.
 
41 - 60 of 62 Posts
Top