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2017 Giulia Ti Lusso Q4
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I've posted before about my Dealership and relationship with them. I must be just as lucky.
I did my damndest to buy a used QV from them but the market being what it was/is no Dealer would do a transfer to them.
My Dealer still treats me like a valued customer, in exchange I have them do whatever work I need done, including installing my Akrapovic exhaust and GTAm tail lights.
They are an awesome group of car enthusiasts.
It's sad how the people who run the "bad" dealerships can ruin something so much larger than themselves.
 

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2018 Ti Sport Q2
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I hear you 100%.

I think, from what I read, the Giorgio platform is only shared with the Jeep GC-L and the new Maserati Grecale. The future ambitions of Imparato is to move to electrification (EV, PHEV, Hybrid), which may not have been considered when Giorgio was developed. You shouldn't just shoehorn that stuff in. Also, it is possible (and I would think likely) that Giorgio is overdeveloped (which is good for us) but makes the platform expensive for more pedestrian cars at Stellantis to share. Subaru had a similar issue with the Impreza/WRX, the Impreza was more expensive to build than necessary as it included a lot of extra rigidity and chassis improvements required for the sporty WRX. Now, they are separated in development.

Hopefully, AR can have a seat at the table in developing the STLA Large platform, and make the necessary additions to to retain what you love about Giorgio.
In my humble opinion.....

I'm concerned about the products, and i fail to see how:
1. Replacing the head of design with a guy from Seat(or whatever), whose designs seem mediocre at best (especially when compared to what Alfa has done), will lead to something better. (Was the person who was there doing a bad job? Or is this just the spoils of a takeover?)
2. Replacing a purpose-built platform designed by guys from Ferrari, with a generic platform from PSA, will lead to something better.
3. Manufacturing Alfa's outside Italy. (Why stop at Poland?)

The Giulia & Stelvio (Giorgio) have been pitted(and won) against rivals from BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus....... when they switch over to the generic PSA platforms, I think it would be reasonable to assume they will be compared to VWs, Peugeots, Toyotas, Nissans, etc.

Pending the products they release and where/who developed the platforms/tech..... at some point, we (Alfisti) will have to admit that the Alfa Romeo aspects are only skin(or maybe just badge) deep. IMHO

Yeah, it's all about that "one time". I had a couple of bad experience with nothing serious at stakes, and eventually found a great dealer... 90 miles away. When something serious happens, like a breakdown (happened to me last week) and the car goes to the closest dealer that's not the great one you like, things can get ugly. I'm in this very situation right now and this is seriously pushing me away from the brand.
Maybe instead of improving the dealership network.... they're going to be making Alfas that are a better fit for Dodge dealerships? "Thinking outside the box" eh? 馃槃

One things for certain, I miss Sergio.
 

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In my humble opinion.....

I'm concerned about the products, and i fail to see how:
1. Replacing the head of design with a guy from Seat(or whatever), whose designs seem mediocre at best (especially when compared to what Alfa has done), will lead to something better. (Was the person who was there doing a bad job? Or is this just the spoils of a takeover?)
2. Replacing a purpose-built platform by guys from Ferrari, with a generic budget platform from Peugeot, will lead to something better.
3. Manufacturing Alfa's outside Italy. (Why stop at Poland?)

The Giulia & Stelvio (Giorgio) have been pitted(and won) against rivals from BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus....... when they switch over to the generic PSA platforms, I think it would be reasonable to assume they will be compared to VWs, Peugeots, Toyotas, Nissans, etc.

Pending the products they release and where/who developed the platforms/tech..... at some point, we (Alfisti) will have to admit that the Alfa Romeo aspects are only skin(or maybe just badge) deep. IMHO
1) According to Wikipedia, the head designer of the Giulia 952, Marco Tencone (Italy), was removed from AR in 2015. He was replaced by Scott Kruger (USA), the former Chief Designer at SRT...he did the Tonale. Now, he is out, and we get Alejandro Mesonero-Romanos (Spain), who comes from Seat/Cupra via Renault/Dacia...he did the Forementor. Cupra is a very nice brand to come from, small, sporty, aggressive and not afraid to push the envelope of style.

2) It's the STLA, it's Stellantis, not Peugeot alone, and it is for electrification. Giorgio was not, apparently, cost effective to add batteries.

3) Talk to the Unions if you want to keep the manufacturing in Italy. Too expensive. Even Lamborghini tried to leave.
 

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This below in Italics is an interesting information from a couple of years ago, which confirms the size of this Brand (Globally) and hopefully, will make all us understand that this Brand has been (and will be) a niche brand and that in the best case scenario, it will continue to be an exclusive and small brand for the next 110 years. For 110 years, this has been a very small volume Brand and that has not been a problem. Alfa Romeo sales in the whole planet are 1/3 of what BMW sells in the US.

Starting in 2017, Alfa Romeo sales performance finally got positive after seven years of fall, pulled up by both Giulia and Stelvio sales. Sales were up in North America, Europe and GCC. The Giulietta was the best-selling model.

Following the very negative performance reported in the period 2010-2016, during 2017 Alfa Romeo had finally recovered terrain with global sales increased 50.6% at 109.093 units. At regional-wise, North America was growing fast, with the brand re-starting distribution just, while GCC region grew 161% and Europe 33.0%.

Key for this success was the launch of two models, the Giulia (in 2016) and the Stelvio in the 2017. Actually the best selling model is the Giulietta with 37.442 sales (-19.6%) followed by the Giulia with 35.159 (+233%) and the Stelvio with 20.885.

In the period 2010-2016 Alfa Romeo has scored a really poor performance in the last sixth years, declining from 119.000 sales in the 2010 to 72.400 in the 2016, performing a Compound annual growth rate (C.A.G.R) of -6.5%, while the industry CAGR in the period was +4.6%.

Sales split at regional level confirmed in the 2017 the supremacy of the European region counting the 92.3% of total sales (it was 94.1% in the 2010).

Sales in Asia count 3.6% (from 3.0%), while American sales represent the 2.3% (from 0.8%).

We figure out this brand鈥檚 sales data in 85 different countries, with forecast up to the 2022.


On top of all, in the 2016 there was Italy with 50.2% of global sales share (from 43.7% in the 2010), ahead of France with 10.1% (from 11.1%), UK with 6.7% (from 7.4%), Germany with 5.9% and Spain with 4.4%.
 

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2018 Ti Sport Q2
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1) According to Wikipedia, the head designer of the Giulia 952, Marco Tencone (Italy), was removed from AR in 2015. He was replaced by Scott Kruger (USA), the former Chief Designer at SRT...he did the Tonale. Now, he is out, and we get Alejandro Mesonero-Romanos (Spain), who comes from Seat/Cupra via Renault/Dacia...he did the Forementor. Cupra is a very nice brand to come from, small, sporty, aggressive and not afraid to push the envelope of style.

2) It's the STLA, it's Stellantis, not Peugeot alone, and it is for electrification. Giorgio was not, apparently, cost effective to add batteries.

3) Talk to the Unions if you want to keep the manufacturing in Italy. Too expensive. Even Lamborghini tried to leave.
So it will be "Alfa" in name only.
 

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This below in Italics is an interesting information from a couple of years ago, which confirms the size of this Brand (Globally) and hopefully, will make all us understand that this Brand has been (and will be) a niche brand and that in the best case scenario, it will continue to be an exclusive and small brand for the next 110 years. For 110 years, this has been a very small volume Brand and that has not been a problem. Alfa Romeo sales in the whole planet are 1/3 of what BMW sells in the US.

Starting in 2017, Alfa Romeo sales performance finally got positive after seven years of fall, pulled up by both Giulia and Stelvio sales. Sales were up in North America, Europe and GCC. The Giulietta was the best-selling model.

Following the very negative performance reported in the period 2010-2016, during 2017 Alfa Romeo had finally recovered terrain with global sales increased 50.6% at 109.093 units. At regional-wise, North America was growing fast, with the brand re-starting distribution just, while GCC region grew 161% and Europe 33.0%.

Key for this success was the launch of two models, the Giulia (in 2016) and the Stelvio in the 2017. Actually the best selling model is the Giulietta with 37.442 sales (-19.6%) followed by the Giulia with 35.159 (+233%) and the Stelvio with 20.885.

In the period 2010-2016 Alfa Romeo has scored a really poor performance in the last sixth years, declining from 119.000 sales in the 2010 to 72.400 in the 2016, performing a Compound annual growth rate (C.A.G.R) of -6.5%, while the industry CAGR in the period was +4.6%.

Sales split at regional level confirmed in the 2017 the supremacy of the European region counting the 92.3% of total sales (it was 94.1% in the 2010).

Sales in Asia count 3.6% (from 3.0%), while American sales represent the 2.3% (from 0.8%).

We figure out this brand鈥檚 sales data in 85 different countries, with forecast up to the 2022.


On top of all, in the 2016 there was Italy with 50.2% of global sales share (from 43.7% in the 2010), ahead of France with 10.1% (from 11.1%), UK with 6.7% (from 7.4%), Germany with 5.9% and Spain with 4.4%.
Small can be profitable. Alfa will only ever be a niche player and I think many of us like it that way - the Alfisti. Stellantis have other brands for volume Peugeot, Opel Jeep, Dodge. If Stellantis can put the portfolio together correctly Alfa (as an Alfa with Alfa traits - design, sportiness, a halo model or two, some measure of exclusivity) has a place sitting below Maserati and above the rest of their catalogue.
 

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Can confirm SoCal Alfa dealers are staffed by morons. Of all them the only salesguy who exceeded my expectations in professionalism was at Ontario, and he used to work at one of the big German marques. Anaheim is the worst dealer I've been to regardless of brand. The salesguy had the audacity to refuse me a test drive of a base Sprint without talking numbers first! Shameful.

Van Nuys has a lot of inventory and tries hard to make a good deal. But they are also terrible with communication. Finance people don't answer the phone, salesman disappears for days on end, etc.
Can confirm similar experiences at Ontario and Anaheim. Test drove at Ontario, salesman was really great. But, when it came time, Anaheim had the spec I wanted, so I went there. Sales experience was OK, but the service department is the biggest joke ever. Actually damaged my interior door panels, and now has left me hanging. Working up the nerve to visit Ontario for service when my door panels rattling becomes annoying enough that I feel it's worth risking taking in again. I LOVE the car, but if Alfa doesn't do something about the terrible dealership experience, I don't see how they will survive. Going to an Alfa/Maserati dealer should not be as bad as going to the DMV...
 

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Subtext is, don't hold your breath, this brand could die.
 

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When Hyundai first came to the states, they came with a 10yr/100k warranty (I don't know if that is still the case they STILL offer a 5yr/60k basic and 10yr/100k powertrain warranty).

Someone asked me if that meant the car quality was shoddy if they needed a warranty that long. I thought it was the opposite, they thought the car was made well enough that they were willing to put their money where their mouth was. Some two decades later, you can't spit without hitting a Hyundai.

Alfas have a reputation for unreliability, whether that's the case now is irrelevant, that's the reputation, and all the advertising and good press isn't going to change that. Backing the product with a real warranty (3yr/36k is comical, just babytown frolics correction, 4yr/50k is not enough) is the only way that reputation is going to change. You want people to give the brand a chance? Give them a reason to take that chance.
 

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When Hyundai first came to the states, they came with a 10yr/100k warranty (I don't know if that is still the case they STILL offer a 5yr/60k basic and 10yr/100k powertrain warranty).

Someone asked me if that meant the car quality was shoddy if they needed a warranty that long. I thought it was the opposite, they thought the car was made well enough that they were willing to put their money where their mouth was. Some two decades later, you can't spit without hitting a Hyundai.

Alfas have a reputation for unreliability, whether that's the case now is irrelevant, that's the reputation, and all the advertising and good press isn't going to change that. Backing the product with a real warranty (3yr/36k is comical, just babytown frolics) is the only way that reputation is going to change. You want people to give the brand a chance? Give them a reason to take that chance.
the factory warranty on Alfa is 4 yrs/ 50K, you have it confused with Honda.
 

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Can confirm similar experiences at Ontario and Anaheim. Test drove at Ontario, salesman was really great. But, when it came time, Anaheim had the spec I wanted, so I went there. Sales experience was OK, but the service department is the biggest joke ever. Actually damaged my interior door panels, and now has left me hanging. Working up the nerve to visit Ontario for service when my door panels rattling becomes annoying enough that I feel it's worth risking taking in again. I LOVE the car, but if Alfa doesn't do something about the terrible dealership experience, I don't see how they will survive. Going to an Alfa/Maserati dealer should not be as bad as going to the DMV...
On this topic, I called Alfa of Newport Beach today regarding wheel locks and making a service appt to get them installed. Secretary said I'd get a call back before 5pm. Needless to say, I did not get a call back.

I know something like wheel locks sounds like a small thing, but imagine if something actually went wrong and I really needed to speak with somebody and bring the car in? When I had my 3-series and my Lexus IS, the dealers were very responsive and quick to get me in when needed. I'm really rooting for Alfa to succeed, but things like this are disappointing.

On a positive note, I'm enjoying the car more each and every time I drive it.
 

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I think the earliest Hyundai's warranties were modeled after Honda/Toyota, and only a few years down the line, they geniused up and realized they could scam their way into people's houses with 10 year warranties. I remember the blitz of advertising around Y2K apocalypse.

When Hyundai first came to the states, they came with a 10yr/100k warranty (I don't know if that is still the case they STILL offer a 5yr/60k basic and 10yr/100k powertrain warranty).

Someone asked me if that meant the car quality was shoddy if they needed a warranty that long. I thought it was the opposite, they thought the car was made well enough that they were willing to put their money where their mouth was. Some two decades later, you can't spit without hitting a Hyundai.

Alfas have a reputation for unreliability, whether that's the case now is irrelevant, that's the reputation, and all the advertising and good press isn't going to change that. Backing the product with a real warranty (3yr/36k is comical, just babytown frolics correction, 4yr/50k is not enough) is the only way that reputation is going to change. You want people to give the brand a chance? Give them a reason to take that chance.
 

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I think the earliest Hyundai's warranties were modeled after Honda/Toyota, and only a few years down the line, they geniused up and realized they could scam their way into people's houses with 10 year warranties. I remember the blitz of advertising around Y2K apocalypse.
And Hyundai had the advantage of being a clean slate, they were an unknown with no reputation to fix. And it worked.

Alfa has the baggage of their reputation to overcome. Advertising, good reviews, and all the press releases in the world isn鈥檛 going to fix it.
 

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On this topic, I called Alfa of Newport Beach today regarding wheel locks and making a service appt to get them installed. Secretary said I'd get a call back before 5pm. Needless to say, I did not get a call back.

I know something like wheel locks sounds like a small thing, but imagine if something actually went wrong and I really needed to speak with somebody and bring the car in? When I had my 3-series and my Lexus IS, the dealers were very responsive and quick to get me in when needed. I'm really rooting for Alfa to succeed, but things like this are disappointing.

On a positive note, I'm enjoying the car more each and every time I drive it.
When I needed my windshield replaced I tried calling the 2 closest Alfa dealers, neither ever returned my calls. I eventually went to the local luxury car dealer and let them deal with it.
 

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1965 Giulia Spider Veloce, 2019 Stelvio
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I know how to fix this. I've been involved in retail for 37 years, including some very successful companies. A couple years ago I managed to establish contact with some FCA execs. The initial conversations were very promising, but right afterwards the pandemic hit, and totally screwed things up in that regard. I've now written to the only contact point I've been able to find for Stellantis, to try and get connected to Larry. From what I've seen he does "get it", but isn't exactly sure how to fix it. It sounds like he's serious about it though, so there's hope. They need to use a completely different way of marketing and selling Alfa Romeos than what they've been doing, or they risk getting too far behind the competition, and it costing too much to try and compete. They've already lost billions, so it's doubtful they'd want to risk more if they don't have a working strategy for the business to survive.

From that video, it sounds like Larry is the kind of guy who will recognize what I want to do, and have the authority to do it. It's a customized strategy, but Alfa just happens to fit it perfectly. I hope I can get in touch with him.
Your answer is on target. The missing factor is authority. ALL decisions seem to be made by Mr. Imparato and he appears to be clueless about this market or how to manage for productivity (Theory Y).
It is becoming embarrasing.
Larry Dominique comes to LA and visits Jay Leno - so does everyone. I think he recently got his first. Saw my 65 Veloce 25 years ago and commented he wanted that car in high school. 25 years later???? Great car guy, doesn't know much of Alfa's. On the other hand, Dave Sydorick, VP BoD Petersen Automotive Museum has had his 1937 8c2900 in the lobby, we have a 1937 6c in our Vault and in Thousand Oaks is Ray Scherr's Mozart 8c.
To my knowledge, talking to the Sr. Mgt., they have never met Mr. Dominique - my apologies if I'm wrong I apologize, but I ask whenever I'm there. Currently, coming out of Covid, we're drawing around 4,000 a week. 2022 should bring in close to a 1/2 million from all over the world. The only Stellantis car on gallery exhibit is a Lancia Stratos and a super high performance Maserati.
The largest Italian Concorso in the USA, Concorso Italiano in Monterey, Ca. will present over 1,000 cars to approx. 10,000 attendees. The only Stellantis presence I know of is a Fiat Badge among the list of lower level sponsors.

Will get going on the dealers in a later note. They don't know an Alfa Romeo from and Alpha Romero.
The name hasn't been in the USA for a generation, while Porsche sells more cars in California THAN IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD EXCEPT CHINA. The have their own track in Carson for a "Porsche Experience". BMW offers and adverises to their buyers a "BMW Experience".
Alfa Romeo Club of So. Ca., incorporated in 1962 has been on the track running sanctioned events since 1972 (as a not for profit company), our bi-annual school instructs basic HPDE, Novice and Advanced Time Trial and a nationally sanctioned Race Program. Our 6 open competition events annually includes, in addition to Alfa Romeos Licensed Porsche R Grouppe, Miatas, Mustangs, Camaro's, etc.
Have you seen Mr. Dominique - we haven't.
 

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100% agree with you. When my friend sent me that Jay Leno video, I told him what a messed up visit that was. Talking about a car that is getting phased out does nothing for the brand. That told me Larry knows nothing about the Alfa brand. I never liked Sergio's bullshit salesman talk about the hundreds of thousands of Alfas he was going to sell but at least the guy was passionate about reviving the brand and the two cars he commissioned show that passion very clearly.

Tell me more about that 8C in Thousand Oaks.
 
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