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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Posted a thread a few weeks ago about my Auto Start/Stop having never worked since the car was delivered. I only have about 3000 miles on the car and all of my driving has been between 6700 and 7200 feet elevation until yesterday. Yesterday I made a trip to Albuquerque where the elevation was between 5800 and 6000 feet... and the Auto Start/Stop started working! Drove back to Santa Fe at 7000 feet and it stopped working again. Has anyone else experienced similar behavior with change in elevation?

Anyone have any ideas about what is going on with that?

Thanks !
 

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i only have 1500 miles on my QV(sadly, already owned about 6 months). my start/stop worked early on, maybe around the 200-300 mile mark. i usually turned it off. However, it hasn't turned on since. However, I have not taken it to a different elevation. Must be something in the area we live in?
 

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I live in Denver and have never personally experienced this, but I do turn it off anyways every time I drive so I can't say for sure. What I will say is that theoretically, it would make sense as to why elevation may disable the start/stop. With the less dense air at higher elevation, the injectors will use less fuel to maintain a stoichiometric mixture. So I guess at higher altitudes, the computer may decide there's not enough "power" for the start/stop to work properly and efficiently. I'm definately gonna test out this theory next time I'm up in the mountains with the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I live in Denver and have never personally experienced this, but I do turn it off anyways every time I drive so I can't say for sure. What I will say is that theoretically, it would make sense as to why elevation may disable the start/stop. With the less dense air at higher elevation, the injectors will use less fuel to maintain a stoichiometric mixture. So I guess at higher altitudes, the computer may decide there's not enough "power" for the start/stop to work properly and efficiently. I'm definately gonna test out this theory next time I'm up in the mountains with the car.
Would be interesting to see what happens when you head up into the mouontains.. keep us posted...

Thanks,

Tony
 

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I live in Denver and have never personally experienced this, but I do turn it off anyways every time I drive so I can't say for sure. What I will say is that theoretically, it would make sense as to why elevation may disable the start/stop. With the less dense air at higher elevation, the injectors will use less fuel to maintain a stoichiometric mixture. So I guess at higher altitudes, the computer may decide there's not enough "power" for the start/stop to work properly and efficiently. I'm definately gonna test out this theory next time I'm up in the mountains with the car.
Would be interesting to see what happens when you head up into the mouontains.. keep us posted...

Thanks,

Tony
Will do. I'm at just below 6000' where I am now and I'll take it up to Estes Park or maybe even Breckenridge soon, all at elevations at or above where you said the start/stop doesn't work so it should be interesting.
 

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Would be interesting to see what happens when you head up into the mouontains.. keep us posted...

Thanks,

Tony
And just an FYI, I just read an article from both Porsche and another from Toyota that both explicitly state the auto start/stop function "may not work as expected at high altitudes." Doesn't however explain why. So we might be onto something here.
 

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Sounds like a question for MacGeek

Posted a thread a few weeks ago about my Auto Start/Stop having never worked since the car was delivered. I only have about 3000 miles on the car and all of my driving has been between 6700 and 7200 feet elevation until yesterday. Yesterday I made a trip to Albuquerque where the elevation was between 5800 and 6000 feet... and the Auto Start/Stop started working! Drove back to Santa Fe at 7000 feet and it stopped working again. Has anyone else experienced similar behavior with change in elevation?

Anyone have any ideas about what is going on with that?

Thanks !
I too, have experienced some differences in the Auto Start/Stop (AS/S) performance. I usually leave it on for around-town, non-performance driving. Here’s what I’ve found so far.

Am near Denver at 5,300 ft and have experienced these basic operational behaviors in and around town (so pretty much +/- 200 ft around base elevation):

- Never worked once before I got 500 miles on the car (that only took about 4 days, cuz it was love!)
- Never works before the engine is at least two bars warm. So not an issue until she is warmed up.
- Performance driving of 5 minutes or more will disable AS/S, seemingly not to return until I stop and start the car manually (this is not 100% of the time, but pretty darn close to all the time)
- Often after a full-tank fill up, it won’t operate until I’ve manually shut off and restarted the car the first time (perhaps evap system calibration — but like Perf driving above, not a 100% behavior)
- Low fuel conditions disable AS/S, when the indicator and warning light come on for me

Since the best drives near Denver are canyon drives that take us up to 9,500 feet, and nearby resorts, which are no lower than 7,000 feet, are our destinations, here’s what I’ve experienced when running above 6,000 ft:

- Never have had Auto Start/Stop work above 6,500 feet (4km-ish)
- Trips that go above 6,500 feet, and come back down to 5,300 ft, never have AS/S resume when getting back to Denver elevation until the car is restarted
- Recent trip up to Beaver Creek, 7,300 ft confirms multiple restarts, refueling, etc. all NEVER had AS/S operate. First AS/S resumed was this morning when at Denver and taking my first trip since return

Lotsa folks hate the feature and whine about it not having electronic system memory to recall the “as previously” setting for AS/S and even give the Giulia black marks for that absence. At best, having to disable at onset, is just the nature of our baby, and not taken as a personal insult or grevious engineering mistake by me. It’s just how the car operates, for gosh sake. Getoverit. Consider the first time it stops the engine as a “friendly reminder” to press the button, then press the button.

Luckily for us at elevation, it seems to want to not work during any fun driving, so that’s a plus.

MacGeek, any comments on the state-machine/design for this feature?


Ciao Alfisti,
 

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And just an FYI, I just read an article from both Porsche and another from Toyota that both explicitly state the auto start/stop function "may not work as expected at high altitudes." Doesn't however explain why. So we might be onto something here.
Found it in both the 2018 Toyota Highlander Manual, without a specific altitude and in the 2016 Porsche 911 Manual, at/above 3,000 meters (~9,600 ft). Seems high altitude is a factor, but how high? Also, given atmospheric pressure varies, the altitude at which the interruption occurs should vary somewhat. High altitude, as a medical term, is 8,000-12,000 feet.
 
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Posted a thread a few weeks ago about my Auto Start/Stop having never worked since the car was delivered. I only have about 3000 miles on the car and all of my driving has been between 6700 and 7200 feet elevation until yesterday. Yesterday I made a trip to Albuquerque where the elevation was between 5800 and 6000 feet... and the Auto Start/Stop started working! Drove back to Santa Fe at 7000 feet and it stopped working again. Has anyone else experienced similar behavior with change in elevation?

Anyone have any ideas about what is going on with that?

Thanks !
Hi Tony Bonanno,
This is certainly something I have not heard of before. I know at this time you are just reaching out to other forum members for feedback on this. However, if you do choose to visit a dealer to have this looked into further, please let us know. Just send us a private message with additional information.
Julie
Alfa Romeo Social Care Specialist
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi Tony Bonanno,
This is certainly something I have not heard of before. I know at this time you are just reaching out to other forum members for feedback on this. However, if you do choose to visit a dealer to have this looked into further, please let us know. Just send us a private message with additional information.
Julie
Alfa Romeo Social Care Specialist
Hi Julie,

I was down at the dealer's Saturday for Cars & Coffee and they are now aware of the issue. They asked me to bring it in so the service department can check everything out. I also have a "distorted" rear window (was delivered that way) that needs to be addressed. Will probably try to schedule an appointment in a couple of weeks. These two issues really don't interfere much with my enjoyment of the car and it's a bit of a haul down there, so there is no rush for me to go back there right now.

Thanks for reaching out Julie. Will let you know when I have an appointment set up. BTW, my dealer is Alfa Romeo of Albuquerque.

Best,

Tony
 

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hi, I think you may have a battery issue. I know Start/Stop will be disabled when the battery is low...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
hi, I think you may have a battery issue. I know Start/Stop will be disabled when the battery is low...
Hi Notus,

Thanks for the suggestion. Was aware that could be the problem early on, but pretty much eliminated the battery issue. After an overnight full charge, nothing changed. Only changes when I drive to lower elevation. Very weird I have to admit. Works fine at lower elevation. Doesn't ever work at 7000 feet.

Best,

Tony
 

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I too, have experienced some differences in the Auto Start/Stop (AS/S) performance. I usually leave it on for around-town, non-performance driving. Here’s what I’ve found so far.

Am near Denver at 5,300 ft and have experienced these basic operational behaviors in and around town (so pretty much +/- 200 ft around base elevation):

- Never worked once before I got 500 miles on the car (that only took about 4 days, cuz it was love!)
- Never works before the engine is at least two bars warm. So not an issue until she is warmed up.
- Performance driving of 5 minutes or more will disable AS/S, seemingly not to return until I stop and start the car manually (this is not 100% of the time, but pretty darn close to all the time)
- Often after a full-tank fill up, it won’t operate until I’ve manually shut off and restarted the car the first time (perhaps evap system calibration — but like Perf driving above, not a 100% behavior)
- Low fuel conditions disable AS/S, when the indicator and warning light come on for me

Since the best drives near Denver are canyon drives that take us up to 9,500 feet, and nearby resorts, which are no lower than 7,000 feet, are our destinations, here’s what I’ve experienced when running above 6,000 ft:

- Never have had Auto Start/Stop work above 6,500 feet (4km-ish)
- Trips that go above 6,500 feet, and come back down to 5,300 ft, never have AS/S resume when getting back to Denver elevation until the car is restarted
- Recent trip up to Beaver Creek, 7,300 ft confirms multiple restarts, refueling, etc. all NEVER had AS/S operate. First AS/S resumed was this morning when at Denver and taking my first trip since return

Lotsa folks hate the feature and whine about it not having electronic system memory to recall the “as previously” setting for AS/S and even give the Giulia black marks for that absence. At best, having to disable at onset, is just the nature of our baby, and not taken as a personal insult or grevious engineering mistake by me. It’s just how the car operates, for gosh sake. Getoverit. Consider the first time it stops the engine as a “friendly reminder” to press the button, then press the button.

Luckily for us at elevation, it seems to want to not work during any fun driving, so that’s a plus.

MacGeek, any comments on the state-machine/design for this feature?


Ciao Alfisti,
I'm just south of Denver near Sedalia, my auto-start\stop works fine, but I'm only at 6000 feet. I turn it off all the time anyway .....
 

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I may stop and take a break at Sonora Pass (9600') next time to see if start-stop will work. However normally the car is really hot once I get there and I would not be surprised if that is enough to impair the auto start-stop.

I have noticed that when I start from cold at 7500' the engine struggles a bit to start.
 

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looking at the service manual, one of the parameters for start/stop appears to be barometric pressure.....

<snip>

From the service manual:

Engine Failure to Stop Conditions
When the ESS system is active, the engine may not stop in some conditions for reasons of comfort, emission control and safety. These conditions include:
- Engine temperature is still cold
- Battery is not sufficiently charged
- Windshield wipers are being used at maximum speed
- Driver’s door is not shut
- Driver’s seat belt is not fastened
- Vehicle is in the reverse gear(e.g. parking maneuver)
- When Automatic Temperature Control (ATC) is equipped, a desirable level of comfort has not been reached
- Barometric pressure (over threshold)
A message will appear on the instrument panel display in these cases.

Engine conditions that disable Autostop
When the ESS system is activated, there are specific conditions that will prevent the ESS system event to occur. The following conditions leading to an ESS system operation preventiont can be detected and managed by the BCM or the PCM:

Cold engine: Autostop is prevented if the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor is outside of a range of 40°C (104°F) and 100°C (212°F). In this case, the fuel efficiency and emission reduction deriving from use of the ESS system is not guaranteed .

Reverse gear is engaged: the PCM will not allow the automatic stopping of the engine if reverse gear is engaged . This measure has been adopted in order not to adversely affect performance during parking maneuvers.

A malfunction or fault detected in at least one of the following components will also disable the ESS system:
- Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor (APPS)
- Brake pedal position sensor
- Automatic Braking System (ABS) Hydraulic Control Unit (HCU)
- ECT sensor
- Wheel Speed Sensors (WSS)
- Engine crank sensor
- Engine camshaft sensor
- Reverse switch
- PCM (Malfunction Indicator Lamp/MIL on)

The BCM will signal prevent the engine automatic stopping by sending a CAN-C data bus network message if one or more conditions managed by the BCM occur:

Battery not being sufficiently charged
- IBS calibrating
- SOF of the battery is below 8 .3 V
- Battery temperature is below -23°C (-9°F)

If the IBS is not calibrating, Autostop will be prevented if one of the following conditions occurs:
- SOC is below 75%
- SOH is below 60%
- SOF is below 8 .2 V
- Battery temperature is below -23°C (9°F)

IBS fault: The automatic engine stop event is prevented if an IBS malfunction occurs.

Driver’s door not shut: Autostop is prevented if the driver’s door is open .

Driver’s seat belt not fastened: Autostop is prevented if the driver’s seat belt is not fastened .

Outside temperature sensor: Autostop is prevented if:
- Outside temperature is lower than -16 °C (3°F)
- Outside temperature is higher than 82 °C (180°F)
- NOTE: The temperature limits that have been set on the outside temperature sensor are “extreme” and therefore must always be considered .

ATC: Autostop is prevented if the difference between the climate control temperature set by the customer and the temperature inside the passenger compartment is greater than ± 4°C (39°F)
NOTE: If the vehicle is equipped with manual air conditioning, the engine can always be Autostopped .

Generator fault: Autostop is prevented in the case of generator malfunctions.

Hood open: Autostop is prevented if the hood is open.

Logistic Mode status active: Autostop is prevented if the Logistic Mode status is active.

BCM relay fault: Autostop is prevented if there is a starting circuit relay issue. The relay is operated by the BCM.

Steering position: Autostop is prevented if the Steering Angle Sensor (SAS) is out of calibrated range.

Fuel level: if the fuel level is below a certain threshold, Autostop is disabled
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
looking at the service manual, one of the parameters for start/stop appears to be barometric pressure.....

From the service manual:

Engine Failure to Stop Conditions
When the ESS system is active, the engine may not stop in some conditions for reasons of comfort, emission control and safety. These conditions include:

- Barometric pressure (over threshold)
A message will appear on the instrument panel display in these cases.

___

I think you may have hit on something jwq2! Never have gotten a message on the intrument display panel though. Still, the change in pressure may be what's deactivating the Auto Start/Stop ??
 

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looking at the service manual, one of the parameters for start/stop appears to be barometric pressure.....

From the service manual:

Engine Failure to Stop Conditions
When the ESS system is active, the engine may not stop in some conditions for reasons of comfort, emission control and safety. These conditions include:

- Barometric pressure (over threshold)
A message will appear on the instrument panel display in these cases.

___

I think you may have hit on something jwq2! Never have gotten a message on the intrument display panel though. Still, the change in pressure may be what's deactivating the Auto Start/Stop ??
No idea ;) , but at least it seems to get measured as one of the parameters for the functioning, so it must have some effect .....

Not a problem I have in The Netherlands, all flat (and sometimes below sea level) here :)
 

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looking at the service manual, one of the parameters for start/stop appears to be barometric pressure.....

<snip>

From the service manual:

Engine Failure to Stop Conditions
...
- Barometric pressure (over threshold)
...
- Outside temperature is higher than 82 °C (180°F)
...
ATC: Autostop is prevented if the difference between the climate control temperature set by the customer and the temperature inside the passenger compartment is greater than ± 4°C (39°F)
Too many logical issues there to be able to make sense of this.

High altitude means low Barometric pressure, so impeding it if the pressure is over threshold means it won't work at the bottom of Death Valley?

When is the outside temperature 82C? While driving by a Kilauea lava flow? That is hot enough to kill people in short order.

+/-4C is +/-7F not 39F.

Anyway, I suspect but do not know that they intended to say "Barometric pressure (under threshold)". Has anybody driven to the top of Pike's Peak (highest paved highway outside of South America?) to see if Giulia will start there? Perhaps one of our Colorado members needs an excuse to go for a drive :)

In California we have the road to the Bristle Cone Pine Research Center, but it is only paved to 10,000 feet and only goes to 11,000 feet before it becomes authorized vehicle, foot and bicycle only (the top is about the same as Pike's Peak at just over 14000 feet). Its a 2 hour drive (one way) from my place.
 

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Hi Julie,

I was down at the dealer's Saturday for Cars & Coffee and they are now aware of the issue. They asked me to bring it in so the service department can check everything out. I also have a "distorted" rear window (was delivered that way) that needs to be addressed. Will probably try to schedule an appointment in a couple of weeks. These two issues really don't interfere much with my enjoyment of the car and it's a bit of a haul down there, so there is no rush for me to go back there right now.

Thanks for reaching out Julie. Will let you know when I have an appointment set up. BTW, my dealer is Alfa Romeo of Albuquerque.

Best,

Tony
You are more than welcome, Tony! I am glad to hear you were able to chat about this with your dealer real quick, and that you are still able to enjoy your Giulia. Please do all of this at your convenience. We look forward to hearing from you in the future.
Julie
Alfa Romeo Social Care Specialist
 
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