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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone. Long time lurker, first time poster. :)

Does anyone know if any company has/is-working-on steel rotors that will fit with the CCB calipers? I’m considering buying a used CCB equipped car, but worry about the cost of tracking it with those brakes. I was able to find a place to replace the entire brake system with steel, but I’m not interested in swapping the calipers. Ideally I could run the CCBs on the street and swap in the steels for the couple of track days I plan per year.

For reference, the entire steel replacement kit:http://shop.alfisti.net/Tuning-Styl...Quadrifoglio-Retrofit-Brake-System::9099.html
 

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Hey everyone. Long time lurker, first time poster. :)

Does anyone know if any company has/is-working-on steel rotors that will fit with the CCB calipers? I’m considering buying a used CCB equipped car, but worry about the cost of tracking it with those brakes. I was able to find a place to replace the entire brake system with steel, but I’m not interested in swapping the calipers. Ideally I could run the CCBs on the street and swap in the steels for the couple of track days I plan per year.

For reference, the entire steel replacement kit:http://shop.alfisti.net/Tuning-Styl...Quadrifoglio-Retrofit-Brake-System::9099.html
Do you actually mean to run steel on the track and forgo the superior braking power of the carbons ceramics and the faster acceleration due to lower rotating mass?

Perhaps you meant steel for every day use and save the carbon ceramic‘s for the track. Please clarify, I’m confused.

Ciao,
 
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Intuitively, I’d have to say you can’t use them with the existing carbon ceramic brake calipers, partly because the carbon ceramic rotors are different sizes than the steel rotors, I believe. Not 100% positive but believe that may be true.
 

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If you don’t have a (heavily sponsored) race team or particularly love lighting money on fire, CCB are often not ideal for the a street / track dual purpose car. If you’re going to go taring them up, often times folks would prefer to destroy a cheaper steel set.

This is ver common in the Porsche tracking community.

-Tom.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If you don’t have a (heavily sponsored) race team or particularly love lighting money on fire, CCB are often not ideal for the a street / track dual purpose car. If you’re going to go taring them up, often times folks would prefer to destroy a cheaper steel set.

This is ver common in the Porsche tracking community.

-Tom.
Yeah exactly that. I got the idea of swapping to steel for track use from an HPDE instructor I had years ago who ran a 997 GT3RS as a dedicated track car. Difference there was that he swapped the whole system (calipers and all) for steel, and kept the CCB in a box with the intent to swap them back in someday when it came time to sell the car.

I’m looking to do it a bit different, as mine would serve double duty as a road car that occasionally does track work. I was wondering if I could enjoy the benefits of the CCB for the street (lower brake dust, low maintenance, etc) and steels for the track (cheaper to replace, lots of pad options, no worry about scoring/chipping rotors with rocks in the chance I have an off into the dirt). I’m aware that the braking performance isn’t theoretically as good with steels, but I’m not looking to set lap records, just have fun at HPDE events.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Intuitively, I’d have to say you can’t use them with the existing carbon ceramic brake calipers, partly because the carbon ceramic rotors are different sizes than the steel rotors, I believe. Not 100% positive but believe that may be true.
Yeah, the front OEM steel rotors for the QV are 360mm and the CCB’s are 390mm. Hence the reason I was wondering if any aftermarket rotors existed. :)

Another concern I just dug up is that the Brembo documentation on the CCBs says the calipers are specifically designed for CCB rotors...which might mean this whole idea is asking for trouble...
http://www.brembo.com/en/company/news/alfa-romeo-giulia
 

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Yeah exactly that. I got the idea of swapping to steel for track use from an HPDE instructor I had years ago who ran a 997 GT3RS as a dedicated track car. Difference there was that he swapped the whole system (calipers and all) for steel, and kept the CCB in a box with the intent to swap them back in someday when it came time to sell the car.

I’m looking to do it a bit different, as mine would serve double duty as a road car that occasionally does track work. I was wondering if I could enjoy the benefits of the CCB for the street (lower brake dust, low maintenance, etc) and steels for the track (cheaper to replace, lots of pad options, no worry about scoring/chipping rotors with rocks in the chance I have an off into the dirt). I’m aware that the braking performance isn’t theoretically as good with steels, but I’m not looking to set lap records, just have fun at HPDE events.
Why buy that particular CCB equipped Quadrifoglio then? From the sound of it, you really don’t need CCB in the first place, and even changing them back to steel doesn’t make any sense as the CCB last much longer than steel. My understanding is that they are twice is expensive than steel rotors but also last nearly twice as long. If you’re only going to HPDEs then it is doubtful you’d end up in the gravel as they tend to bring people in for driving recklessly with other people on the track. HPDEs are not racing events versus club racing. Seems like you may be getting way ahead of yourself making a costly purchase of a car with CCBs then making a just as costly conversion back to steel to only attend a few HPDEs. Save your money and find a steel brake car.
 

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For just a couple events a year wouldn't the CCB setup be just fine? The Driving instructor who is out every weekend would be much harder on the brakes than someone out just a few times.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Why buy that particular CCB equipped Quadrifoglio then?
For exactly the reasons I listed, namely low brake dust and low wear for street use. The thought of having clean wheels all the time is rather appealing! The car I’m looking at is priced competitively with steel brake cars. The initial cost of the CCBs looks to have been mostly lost in depreciation already.

And to give you some insight, I’m already an experienced, clean, solo HPDE driver. I’ve not yet had an off. That said, experience at the track has thought me that things can happen to even the best of us. :)

Afaik, CCBs will basically last the life of a car if driven only on the street. There are some excellent threads on this forum that show that a tracked car will wear them considerably faster. Back of the napkin math shows that the full replacement (rotors+pads) cost of CCBs is roughly 10x the cost of steel ($15k vs $1.5k), but obviously the increased longevity of CCB doesn’t make it an apples to apples comparison.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
For just a couple events a year wouldn't the CCB setup be just fine? The Driving instructor who is out every weekend would be much harder on the brakes than someone out just a few times.
Yeah, that’s a fine point, and I’ve been trying to research that angle too. In my situation, I might be just fine running CCBs everywhere...this obviously would be my first experience with a CCB car, so I’m trying to make a well informed decision on whatever I decide to do.
 

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My Giulia QV has CCB and I’ve tracked it quite a bit. And I have a friend with Giulia QV who has the steel rotors. It’s a big deal for us because it gets quite expensive as you already know.

This is what we have found:
CCBs pads lasts at least twice as long but are over twice as expensive for pads. But the CCB rotors themselves seem to hold up quite well. We have measured how much a set of pads wears the rotors and we are guessing six maybe seven sets of pads before new rotors needed. FYI you actually clean them up and weigh them to know when they are worn out. Each rotor has a minimum weight stamp on it.

If you want to drive your car extremely hard CCB is far superior. You can brake later and harder with CCB and they don’t overheat as easily. But don’t think you can’t overheat them as you can. I have and the pads turn to mush if you keep going. And I actually cooked my rear pads changing the molecular structure it seems because they started squeaking in street driving only being about half worn down.

Maybe important with CCB you don’t have to take the time or pay to have the pads changed as often. This can be important depending on how hard you drive your car. If you absolutely push your brakes as hard as you can at the track you can wear out a set of CCB front brake pads in 2 days, possibly 1 if a madman. With steels you might not even get one day which is what happened to my friend who had a professional racer drive his car that one day. So it could be a hassle that would be to have to change your pads that quick. I myself have driven my car extremely hard once or twice but it was so expensive I found that if I take it easy on the brakes they last 2-3 times longer but the car is still fast on the track. FYI with a great driver and driving extremely hard the Giulia QV can keep up with GT3s which is quite impressive. My friend is convinced that the CCB version is the way to go and I agree.


Things to keep the cost down:
Flip the front brake pads at least once. The pads are identical. The car wears the inner pads much more. Also the lower part of the pad wears more than the top. So there is a real taper issue. Flipping the pads around alone can make them last about 35 percent longer and also the same percentage money. And it’s an easy thing to do that you can do yourself.
Like I already mentioned just take it easy on brakes a bit.
Put lowering springs on, makes a huge difference in tire and brake wear plus far superior handling. I have the new Eibach springs.

Shop around dealerships to get good pricing you can get the pads cheaper from some.
I’m getting pricing like this
Pads:
List $1,600 Ft 1200
List $1,500 Rear 1200
Rotors:
ft rotor set $4800
rear rotor set $4200

This winter I’m designing some front brake cooling mod for the Giulia QV. Probably some plastic 3-D designed scoops that will push air into a hole we will put in the backing plate of the front brakes. Should make a big difference.

Hopefully in the future there will be aftermarket pads that will make a big difference too. Just be glad you don’t have a Lambo that’s 20k each brake job.
 

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CCB's are going to last months not days with track use. I've tracked and owned 458's, GT3RS, Huracan, Mac 570 and no issues. You can normally get tons of track days easy on CCB. On steel you could go through them in a few sessions (again depending upon use and track configuration).

IF you are using QUAD as a primary track car (of which I know no one doing--we have other 2 door toys to play with on track), then get CCB's.

Don't track cars if you are scared of spending money. It's the best way to part with your money, but you know that going in and I always consider it cost of entertainment.

For the once or twice a year track day kinda guy that is going to take this out, steel is fine.
 

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CCB's are going to last months not days with track use. I've tracked and owned 458's, GT3RS, Huracan, Mac 570 and no issues. You can normally get tons of track days easy on CCB. On steel you could go through them in a few sessions (again depending upon use and track configuration).

IF you are using QUAD as a primary track car (of which I know no one doing--we have other 2 door toys to play with on track), then get CCB's.

Don't track cars if you are scared of spending money. It's the best way to part with your money, but you know that going in and I always consider it cost of entertainment.

For the once or twice a year track day kinda guy that is going to take this out, steel is fine.
My Giulia QV (Quad as you call it) is my back up track car or if I just want to go to my local track and have fun passing fast 2 door cars with good drivers in a four-door sedan and blowing their mind. My main track car is a highly modded 4C.

Sorry don’t agree with you it all on how long the CCB will last and I speak from experience ( and expense!). I own a 2017 QV and I have replaced my front brake pads 2 times now and rears once.

It all depends on how hard you drive the car how late are you brake. A waxer (not saying you are) can own a CCB equipted car and get 100,000 miles out of the front pads. A professional race driver ( not me) will wear in one long track day.

I totally agree with you that steel is just fine for people track only a few times a year. And even more if you just don’t drive and brake real hard. Tracking can be quite fun without going crazy fast as the car can go and it certainly is a lot less expensive.

I also totally agree with you that no one should track a car unless ready to spend the money to do it safely. I don’t think being scared has much to do with it more it’s just some people try to be cheap and drive on tires and brake pads that should be replaced. They are usually the ones that go off course when their brakes overcook and then they never come back because they realize how expensive tracking is.

I track quite a bit and that’s why I love tracking with the 4C as this lightweight car is 1/3 the cost to track versus my Giulia QV and faster. I have own a lot of sports cars and I tracked a lot of cars. Yes some brake designs are a bit more efficient and parts less expensive than others but It’s all about the weight yo and doesn’t matter what make of car you are driving.

You were talking about entertainment value I can’t think anything more fun than passing 2 door sports cars in a sedan. In my Giulia I’ve blown up Porsche Turbo S, GT3 etc. And after the session the drivers come up to me thinking I’m the best driver in the world (whereas I’m certainly not) it’s just that I’m a good driver and much better than they are and my car is as **** fast as there car is.

Here is a video passing Porsches before I lowered my Giulia.
https://youtu.be/CcIObWR01rc
 

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I wasn't referring to AF CCB wear--just the other brands I've owned and tracked. Enjoy and take care.
 

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Going back to the original question, I don’t think anyone is doing cast iron rotors for the ccb brakes but watch Girodisc www.girodisc.com because they do that for Porsche cars and also do lightweight rotors for the 4C.
 

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I'd take a chance on how long the CC would last IF I knew I could get a reasonable cost replacement in the event they didn't make economic sense in normal use.
perhaps cast iron will be available when the CC's start wearing out.
 

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I'd take a chance on how long the CC would last IF I knew I could get a reasonable cost replacement in the event they didn't make economic sense in normal use.
perhaps cast iron will be available when the CC's start wearing out.
For most all drivers the CCB front brake pads will last about 70,000 to 90,000 miles. Rear pads double that. And both without brake dust and with superior stopping power. And the brake rotors you would never have to replace for wear. You have a much greater chance of having to replace them because someone put on a wheel on wrong dropping it on the rotor and chipping it and damaging them.

Only when you track extremely hard does it put exponential wear on everything. But that’s how you go real fast at the track.
 

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Al, those are reassuring guesstimates for street wear, because I would rather pick up a Stelvio Q with expensive rotors when they arrive than wait another 5 months.

still a guesstimate though.
I burned enough money racing (and bikes are way cheaper than cars) and got to go plenty fast, so don't plan on getting hooked again and going through rehab all over.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Girodisc is interested...

I got an email back from Girodisc expressing that they're "very interested" in producing a cast iron conversion for the giulia. To get that ball rolling, they'd need to borrow some CC rotors to take measurements and a commitment from at least 5 buyers. I ended up buying the CCB car I was looking at, so after a track day or 2 this year I'll have a look at the wear and see if this is necessary.
 
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