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2018 Giulia TI Sport AWD Misano Blue/Black Ice
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wanted to see if anyone has had experience that would apply to my situation.

2/8- Took the Car in for 50k mile service.
2/12- Check Engine light comes on with a Start/Stop Unavailable message. (Note: This was during our cold snap. The temperature at this point had dropped to -2 with heavy snow.)
2/14- I reached out to the service writer and asked if I needed to bring it in. Response: "The START/STOP feature may not work for several reasons and outside temp is one of them." The temperature returned to normal ranges and the light went away.
3/18- The Check Engine comes back with the Start/Stop message. At this point, it's 49 degrees. A few details from this occurrence I didn't catch the first time:
  • This happened around noon. In driving it that afternoon, I stopped and started the car 4-5 cars and the message remained. ALSO, when this triggered on the highway, the car was in "A" (sorry, purists). With the message, the car shifted to "N" (blue graphic appeared on the nav) and it would not allow me to switch out of that mode. This continued all afternoon.
  • Later, I stopped for dinner and was out of the car for two hours. When I got back in, all was back to normal.
3/19- Contacted the dealer with the details. Response: "The Start Stop feature may not work for about 60 different reasons. Inside temp, outside temp, low battery voltage, hills and many more."

Is this just sh#* happens situation that others have experienced? At this point and moving forward if it happens again, just wait it out and ignore unless it persists? I've kept all communication to email so I have a paper trail. I was within the 50k warranty period when the problem originally popped up, but I'm 1500 miles past now.

Appreciate your thoughts and any related results with this warning.

(Just a comment that this forum has been a real asset over the past year. It helped me get comfortable with my purchase decision and provided valuable guidance on service, parts and validation in my love of driving this car. Thanks to those that run this thing and volunteer your time. It's almost always a welcoming, "no stupid questions" kinda place, and that's become so rare online these days. Thanks for your good work.)
 

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I believe your service guy is wrong. While the start/stop feature may not activate for 100 different reasons, the “start/stop not available“ warning message indicates a fault with the system. Asking @Beta Romeo to confirm.
 

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Additional info.....my S/S not available warning came on after I had my 2017 in for the W05 recall service. No problem before the service, warning on when I got the car back from the dealer. They ended up replacing the BCM to resolve.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Additional info.....my S/S not available warning came on after I had my 2017 in for the W05 recall service. No problem before the service, warning on when I got the car back from the dealer. They ended up replacing the BCM to resolve.
Exactly the kind of thing I want to avoid paying for if it should have been covered under warranty. You're the best. Thanks!
 

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I believe your service guy is wrong. While the start/stop feature may not activate for 100 different reasons, the “start/stop not available“ warning message indicates a fault with the system. Asking @Beta Romeo to confirm.
Yes, the dealer is correct about the Stop/Start lamp by itself if the car has no other conditions. The Start/Stop system lamp is very ambiguous and is actually hard to have set without any other errors. If the battery is under a certain state of charge the light can come on. However, usually when the battery gets this low, the vehicle can have a hard time starting or actually have a no-start. It kind of straddles a line between low-battery and dead-battery that is difficult to catch. This light will also come on when certain check-engine lights are on, often accompanied by a throttle error light.

All this light means when taken by itself is that the Start/Stop is inactive, but not permanently set to inactive. This also is the battery threshold where the rear defroster also doesn't work.

Here's the catch, when the car shut off the DNA selector, that is NOT something tied to only a Stop/Start error. The car actually went into a limp mode. There should be a code stored in the PCM or TCM for some kind of error, as that's the only thing that will kill the DNA selector.

I attached a TSB to this that describes what the vehicle looks at to allow Stop/Start to work and is an interesting read, however I suspect you have another problem due to the DNA selector being disabled.
 

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2018 Giulia TI Sport AWD Misano Blue/Black Ice
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes, the dealer is correct about the Stop/Start lamp by itself if the car has no other conditions. The Start/Stop system lamp is very ambiguous and is actually hard to have set without any other errors. If the battery is under a certain state of charge the light can come on. However, usually when the battery gets this low, the vehicle can have a hard time starting or actually have a no-start. It kind of straddles a line between low-battery and dead-battery that is difficult to catch. This light will also come on when certain check-engine lights are on, often accompanied by a throttle error light.

All this light means when taken by itself is that the Start/Stop is inactive, but not permanently set to inactive. This also is the battery threshold where the rear defroster also doesn't work.

Here's the catch, when the car shut off the DNA selector, that is NOT something tied to only a Stop/Start error. The car actually went into a limp mode. There should be a code stored in the PCM or TCM for some kind of error, as that's the only thing that will kill the DNA selector.

I attached a TSB to this that describes what the vehicle looks at to allow Stop/Start to work and is an interesting read, however I suspect you have another problem due to the DNA selector being disabled.
Thanks for the additional info. Sounds like the limp mode is what I need to emphasize. In case there's something that means something to you or Wingler, here's the dash:
("Don't come now, come later" is a podcast related to the southern border situation, not "something else", before we head down that road...😏)

109251
109252
 

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Yes, the dealer is correct about the Stop/Start lamp by itself if the car has no other conditions. The Start/Stop system lamp is very ambiguous and is actually hard to have set without any other errors. If the battery is under a certain state of charge the light can come on. However, usually when the battery gets this low, the vehicle can have a hard time starting or actually have a no-start. It kind of straddles a line between low-battery and dead-battery that is difficult to catch. This light will also come on when certain check-engine lights are on, often accompanied by a throttle error light.

All this light means when taken by itself is that the Start/Stop is inactive, but not permanently set to inactive. This also is the battery threshold where the rear defroster also doesn't work.

Here's the catch, when the car shut off the DNA selector, that is NOT something tied to only a Stop/Start error. The car actually went into a limp mode. There should be a code stored in the PCM or TCM for some kind of error, as that's the only thing that will kill the DNA selector.

I attached a TSB to this that describes what the vehicle looks at to allow Stop/Start to work and is an interesting read, however I suspect you have another problem due to the DNA selector being disabled.
Thanks for clearing this up!
 
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Friend of mine, his start/stop check engine light, and no dna change came on about two months ago. He’s been driving it ever since about 20 miles everyday, plus he has a lead foot and has said it’s been over 100mph sometimes “passing people”.
I finally talked him into taking in to the shop to get it looked into.
He says in the two months with the dna and start/stop disabled the Giulia hasn’t missed a beat, always starts, accelerating, shifting ok too.
 

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Friend of mine, his start/stop check engine light, and no dna change came on about two months ago. He’s been driving it ever since about 20 miles everyday, plus he has a lead foot and has said it’s been over 100mph sometimes “passing people”.
I finally talked him into taking in to the shop to get it looked into.
He says in the two months with the dna and start/stop disabled the Giulia hasn’t missed a beat, always starts, accelerating, shifting ok too.
There is a function of the dealership WiTech scan tool that will display all of the conditions that have to be met for SS to work. I'll get a car at work and print out the table. It is really interesting. Anything from a driver's seat belt buckle to door latch signals... I'll try and post it tomorrow.
 

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Exactly the same happened to me last Wednesday. Driving home, and suddenly no stop/start, engine light, and limp mode. Temp around 25deg C. Car back to normal by itself the next day.
 

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Whilst it might not be solely due to the infamous battery issues, in my particular case, it definitely was.

My s/s has only worked for a few days after I got the car in '17 and a few days after the battery was replaced last year. Got to be the most irritating feature of the car so I am quite pleased.

The warning that it doesn't work, however, and the default to "N", was, according to my dealer, a sign of the battery dieing...
 

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For IPC display S&S error message, as others said (but not dealer), there must be real fault not the condtion (which would not result in the message, just S&S wouldn't kick). One of interesting and quite common condition to have error message is problem with bonet lock - if it does not lock correctly (or switch in the lock is dodgy), you will get that message instead of about having bonet not closed properly. It looks to me bug in firmware they never got corrected (haven't heard about update or newer car which woudl resolve this). And issues with bonet locks and in some cars difficulty of closing bonet (even from factory/brand new cars), are some noticeable percentage of Giulia/Stelvios which require amendment of lock hooks or in some cases even replace of lock/linkage (in Europe there is service news on this replace, possibly equivalent also in US service system)
 

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Alfa Giulia is not alone with start/stop issues. Here is the start/stop thread on mercedes Benz bb. They even have an auxiliary battery. Some ignore the light, others race full bore to the dealers. Up to you.

 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
So I don't leave this thread dangling, here's where it things wrapped up for now. The Service Manager was on vacation after my last visit. The dealer lost their experienced service writer, so I think the newbie wanted him to handle it with me when he returned. We talked today.

Brief recap: 1) Start/Stop Unavailable message. 2) a few weeks later, the message returned with the addition of the car going in to limp mode for the afternoon.

On my follow up visit after #2, the technician said that there was no code showing up that corresponded (if that's the right word) with the limp mode event. Later, they came back and indicated it might be related to the battery (as suggested above) and I could consider replacing it (at my cost). I walked them through the events as related to my visit pre-50k miles and made my case it should be covered under warranty. They were agreeable, but indicated in order to do a warranty replacement they had to run a full battery check, which took a couple of hours. At the end of that process, they said the battery checked out fine, but that they would submit it for a good will replacement. (Insert wait time until the Service Manager returned from vacation.)

In our conversation today, he agreed that there "should be" a code that would have related to the limp mode event, but said he reviewed the tech's data and there is none. He confirmed he had also looked at the battery test and that it was in the 90% range. He said AR would not consider a good will replacement based on the type of test results shown. (My sense is that it was not submitted.) We agreed that I would keep an eye on it and he asked that I call him directly if there's a similar occurrence. If it happens or there's a failure, I think I have things documented closely enough that I can make my case that the problem can be traced back to an issue that started when it was still under warranty. Hopefully, it will not come back and this won't be an issue.

Thanks again to @wingler @Beta Romeo and the rest of you that chipped in your thoughts and experiences. Hope you enjoy a long, sunny drive to Grandma's house for Easter.
 

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I'll indicate one more alternative: another thing to check with S&S error is bonet lock - for some reason cars with issues with the lock show up S&S error on the dash - I guess it is some bug in ECU firmwares - wrong assignment of condition to wrong message/error code? proven on many Giulia/Stelvios various manfuacturing dates.
 
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Just got my S&S unavailable message today after taking a nice pastry run. This the second time in about three months that this happened and the first time it went away on restart. This time fortunately, I was close to home. Put her on the tender overnight and called my service advisor.
 

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Lucky for me I found this thread as last Friday while driving i got a Start Stop unavailable... tried everything in this thread...hood..3 restarts..but didn't put it on the trickle charger. It drove ok..stuck in normal mode but not issues. Until Sunday, magically the problem disappeared. Car is now normal. I called the dealer and told me that when the battery is below 80% start stop won't work. My question is could I have a drain ? The car is a 2017 base but I replaced rhe battery in may of 2020.

I've got an appointment with the dealer Tuesday...hopefully they see some code that can provide more info
 
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