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Discussion Starter #121
I know this is the Giulia forum but I will post one tracking event video and report here with my Stelvio QV because I think some people want to know how a modded Stelvio QV will compare to a modded Guilia QV. I know I sure the hell want to know myself! And I will know in just a few hours!!! Can’t wait! After this if you want to see any further videos of the Stelvio you can go to the Alfa Romeo North America Facebook page or maybe the Stelvio forum but they don’t even have a motorsports section there yet.
Anyway all delivered to Oregon Raceway Park no scratches!
You wouldn’t believe the welding job we did on the tailgate to get that extra inch and a half of length needed to fit Stelvio in my trailer!!!
See that 4‘ x 4‘ notch in the ramp/tailgate!
That didn’t come easy! Very proud of our welding job!
Tomorrow we track we find out if that extra 470 pounds can be made up with the all wheel drive, lower gearing and stupid fat tire vs my Giuila QV!
I just wonder how long my OEM brake pads will last!!!LOL
I’m betting half a day!!
Not to worry I have Girodisc pads with me!
My best competition is a highly modded Z07 with a really good driver. And his brothers coming Saturday with his Viper and he’s a good driver too. There’s no way a lightly modded SUV can beat modded two door sports cars!
Theoretically I have a chance!
It’s good to get out of crazy corona town and get out in country out in the open!
Oregon Raceway Park (ORP) paddock has absolutely beautiful views and you can camp here.
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Discussion Starter #122
OMG my lightly modded Stelvio QV is FAST!!
On my first time out on any track this year, and my very first time tracking this car, on OEM brake pads worried as shit they’re going to go out right away but still on my 3rd lap did a 1:54 laptime at ORP going CCW.
That’s only one second slower than the fastest I’ve ever done in my modded Giuila QV!! Very fast lap time for this track.
OEM front pads lasted 3 laps LOL
Unfortunately my Girodisc track brake pads that I went to put on were cut wrong and or caused the brakes to hang up. I did some grinding to make them fit but it didn’t feel it was safe so called it quits and I only got four laps in today.
So bad news but not the end of the world.
So I’m done for the whole 2 day weekend!
Got a total of four laps in! One warm-up, one medium lap, one medium hot lap and one cool down lap!!
But it was fun driving here and camping and those two hot laps were amazing. And it was worth it to do that one 1:54 lap!!!
Kept wondering how fast this car is. now I know and it exceeded my expectations.
If you look at my one fast lap it’s got lots or errors specially on those three turns going up the hill. That was a lot of lost time. Plus I totally took it easy going down the hills because I know I had weak brakes. Of course I’ll figure it out with a few more laps and some proper brakes. I’m shocked I drove it as well and fast as I did as the car handles so much different than the Giulia QV.
I think after a day or two of driving my car here I can get to a 1:47 maybe even faster!
To put that in perspective the Australian stig in his $300,000 GT2RS can do 1:45s and that’s the fastest any modded production car has gone here.
Here’s a few picture of my OEM front brake pads!! Bahahaha!
My Giuila widebody should be even a little faster than the Stelvio!!
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Great write up. Enjoyed reading the update. Tough luck on the pads and the cutting short of the track time. Hope you will be back beating the record later.
 

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Pretty impressive, you coming out of hibernation and pulling that on the third lap in an unfamiliar car.
Doesn't FedEx deliver to the track?
 

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Discussion Starter #125
Pretty impressive, you coming out of hibernation and pulling that on the third lap in an unfamiliar car.
Doesn't FedEx deliver to the track?
Thanks, it was so much fun!
It’s funny I started out in dynamic mode thinking that’s the prudent thing to do with a car I have never tracked before on OEM brakes. But As soon as I felt traction control putting on the brakes a little I turned it off and put it in the race mode right away like halfway through the lap!
I just kick myself now for not making the turns better. The time I thought I had two days to dial it in if I would’ve known that was my one and only hot lap I would’ve nailed it turns better. But the car pushes just like all AWD cars do. Not bad but a little bit too much. But with my camber mod coming it will help.
Notice how there’s hardly any tire squealing!
I guess there’s no squealing with a Stelvio!
 

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I don't track mine but ....
I've been saying people should feel (more) comfortable using R, as the power transition to the front is a bit of a nanny anyway. with that in mind, and the heavier weight, I figure braking a earlier than you would in a giulia - and getting on the gas much earlier and harder - will be the key. not just for faster laps, but turning that "on the brakes push" into an on the gas 4 wheel drift.
a slightly different approach than with a lighter car that can get tail happy on acceleration.
oh, and replacing the light aluminum rear crossmember with a heavy steel hitch improves balance haha!
knowing what you encountered with the cc giulia brakes, I was wondering how the smaller ones would hold up for you on a heavier vehicle. more braking before the corner/turning should even the wear out some, as the rears will be doing a little more of the work.
having a two day event turn into a just few laps really sucks, been there done that. but as Alfa Phiily said, "you got the life'.
 

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I don't track mine but ....
I've been saying people should feel (more) comfortable using R, as the power transition to the front is a bit of a nanny anyway. with that in mind, and the heavier weight, I figure braking a earlier than you would in a giulia - and getting on the gas much earlier and harder - will be the key. not just for faster laps, but turning that "on the brakes push" into an on the gas 4 wheel drift.
a slightly different approach than with a lighter car that can get tail happy on acceleration.
oh, and replacing the light aluminum rear crossmember with a heavy steel hitch improves balance haha!
knowing what you encountered with the cc giulia brakes, I was wondering how the smaller ones would hold up for you on a heavier vehicle. more braking before the corner/turning should even the wear out some, as the rears will be doing a little more of the work.
having a two day event turn into a just few laps really sucks, been there done that. but as Alfa Phiily said, "you got the life'.
agree With everything you said About driving and braking different than a Giulia. The weight and driving skills needed to run fast lap times like @Call me Al did will most certainly eat up any brake pads no matter the brand or quality. Still very impressed with his times. That’s a combination of good driving, perfect tire set ups and Alfa engineering. In don’t like comparing modded cars to stock cars but wonder what the $200k+ lambo urus would run?
 

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agree With everything you said About driving and braking different than a Giulia. The weight and driving skills needed to run fast lap times like @Call me Al did will most certainly eat up any brake pads no matter the brand or quality. Still very impressed with his times. That’s a combination of good driving, perfect tire set ups and Alfa engineering. In don’t like comparing modded cars to stock cars but wonder what the $200k+ lambo urus would run?
Heavy high powered car = run a late apex line, which would be a similar line to the giulia. Unfortunately, the SQV is so heavy I would expect catastrophic braking failures if pushed hard for even a few laps, especially with the smaller brake setup, regardless of pad choice.
 

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Having been lucky enough to drive an SQV at a track (MMC), once you get used to the seating position(sitting up higher than the GQV), the SQV is really impressive as it sits, not the roll I was preparing myself for when we played follow the leader with the instructor. I can only imagine with those Fred Flintstone wide tires that the grip must be nutz. The acceleration felt (butt dyno) like it pulled with more urgency than the GQV, chalk that off to the grip of AWD?
Having owned an X5M, IF I ever went down the high performance SAV again, I'd get myself the SQV.
as an aside @Call me Al , I am surprised that with you guys being in Oregon (proximity to Wash.) they (the track) didn't cancel the event given the current situation. Be safe! Have Fun!!
 

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"Expect catastrophic"
Geesus
How many laps does it take for a giulia to have that happen ? Add 10% weight and you will get maybe 10% fewer hard laps?
Of course if you take full advantage of the conti stomping power, not realizing or appreciating that just because you can't feel the fade that it doesnt mean it isnt happening, you will have the same issues with either vehicle.
 

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"Expect catastrophic"
Geesus
How many laps does it take for a giulia to have that happen ? Add 10% weight and you will get maybe 10% fewer hard laps?
Of course if you take full advantage of the conti stomping power, not realizing or appreciating that just because you can't feel the fade that it doesnt mean it isnt happening, you will have the same issues with either vehicle.
Jaysus.

Stelvio QV is 15% heavier than Giulia QV. Obviously issues will be track/driver/conditions dependent but we've seen several GQVs have catastrophic braking failures on the track in short sessions. But this also isn't just any SQV - its Al's. More horespower and huge rubber. Wearing through a set of pads (even OEM) in just 3 laps shows the issue is obvious.
 

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Discussion Starter #132
Another video of the same laps done by my new Road-keeper tracking video system.
Obviously I need to raise the camera up and I can also zoom it in so it is closer to the other video look. Also move the inside camera over more so you can see all of the steering wheel. I like how I placed it I could see out my rear view to see how quickly cars disappear after I pass them ! LOL!!
But you can see my quick fit harness system holds me in pretty good. The data shows I was getting up to peaks of 1.8G I think.
I like this system for $400!! You can also just keep it in your car as a great 2 Camera dash cam
 

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Yes, duh, traction is an obvious "problem" for wearing out brakes. Easily solved for most guys who aren't going at al's speeds, or dont have his budget, by using a less sticky tire instead of more.
Yes, its al's, as is the gq he's used to , which has had its share of brake experimentation and improvements, which helped him get his fastest lap. But through that all, nothing I would consider "catastrophic". And he's running hard enough to make them both necessary and worthwhile. Most aren't.
Of course you could use your laptop and turn off all the drivers aids. Abs. Traction control, stability/yaw and whatever else they have in there, and I'll bet most of your brake and tire wear concerns would be replaced by completely different ones.
 

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Discussion Starter #134
"Expect catastrophic"
Geesus
How many laps does it take for a giulia to have that happen ? Add 10% weight and you will get maybe 10% fewer hard laps?
Of course if you take full advantage of the conti stomping power, not realizing or appreciating that just because you can't feel the fade that it doesnt mean it isnt happening, you will have the same issues with either vehicle.
FYI brake choice sizes, exact same brake choices for Giulia QV and Stelvio QV.
Carbon ceramic brakes:
front: 15.4 x 1.3 in
Rear: 14.2 x 1.1 in

Steel brakes:
front: 14.2 x 1.26 in
Rear: 13.8 in x 1.1 in

I actually have one of each of these choices.
Well obviously the larger size pads, rotors, and calipers would be better. But Either size are adequate for the 470 lbs heavier Stelvio QV. It’s all about the pads!
Of course you have to convert the CCB’s to the Girodisc steel rotors to have any brakes at all worth a darn on the track.
Once the CCB system was converted to steeI would guess the larger size would make your brakes last 10 to 15% longer in both durability before overheating and pad life. But note the sizes are only about 8 to 10% difference.
And converting the OEM rotors to the Girodisc rotors will be a huge improvement in the length durability before overheating and a little bit less unsprung weight.
 

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Another video of the same laps done by my new Road-keeper tracking video system.
Obviously I need to raise the camera up and I can also zoom it in so it is closer to the other video look. Also move the inside camera over more so you can see all of the steering wheel. I like how I placed it I could see out my rear view to see how quickly cars disappear after I pass them ! LOL!!
But you can see my quick fit harness system holds me in pretty good. The data shows I was getting up to peaks of 1.8G I think.
I like this system for $400!! You can also just keep it in your car as a great 2 Camera dash cam
That track looks like a lot of fun. As does the Stelvio ;)

I've had the opportunity to be a passenger with Patrick Friesacher in a Stelvio Q around the Red Bull Ring in Austria. Very impressive - even in standard form...
 

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FYI brake choice sizes, exact same brake choices for Giulia QV and Stelvio QV.
Carbon ceramic brakes:
front: 15.4 x 1.3 in
Rear: 14.2 x 1.1 in

Steel brakes:
front: 14.2 x 1.26 in
Rear: 13.8 in x 1.1 in

I actually have one of each of these choices.
Well obviously the larger size pads, rotors, and calipers would be better. But Either size are adequate for the 470 lbs heavier Stelvio QV. It’s all about the pads!
Of course you have to convert the CCB’s to the Girodisc steel rotors to have any brakes at all worth a darn on the track.
Once the CCB system was converted to steeI would guess the larger size would make your brakes last 10 to 15% longer in both durability before overheating and pad life. But note the sizes are only about 8 to 10% difference.
And converting the OEM rotors to the Girodisc rotors will be a huge improvement in the length durability before overheating and a little bit less unsprung weight.
I know the GQV and SQV have the same size brakes. But your GQV has significantly larger brakes than your SQV. Numerous members here have noted (myself included) that the stock iron setup is undersized and/or undercooled for the GQV for many tracks/drivers. Even experienced drivers such @ BostonDMD have ruled the iron setup on the Giulia as unsuitable after only a session or two. And these are failures that pads won't fix. Take that same setup, add 500 pounds, a bunch of horsepower and a bunch of traction and the results are pretty predictable.

If you burned through pads that quickly, race pads will just allow you to overtax the system longer. Instead of pads you'll seize calipers, boil your fluid, or maybe just nuke your rotors.

I hope I'm wrong and instead you set track records and your brakes last forever. I just don't think that's likely.
 

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Discussion Starter #138 (Edited)
I know the GQV and SQV have the same size brakes. But your GQV has significantly larger brakes than your SQV. Numerous members here have noted (myself included) that the stock iron setup is undersized and/or undercooled for the GQV for many tracks/drivers. Even experienced drivers such @ BostonDMD have ruled the iron setup on the Giulia as unsuitable after only a session or two. And these are failures that pads won't fix. Take that same setup, add 500 pounds, a bunch of horsepower and a bunch of traction and the results are pretty predictable.

If you burned through pads that quickly, race pads will just allow you to overtax the system longer. Instead of pads you'll seize calipers, boil your fluid, or maybe just nuke your rotors.

I hope I'm wrong and instead you set track records and your brakes last forever. I just don't think that's likely.
Sorry but a hard no to most all of this.
And the size difference between the two brake choices is not “significantly” it’s only 10% but that is something.
I’ve heard the stories I’ve seen the pictures of boiled calipers, ruined rotors, decimated brake pads blaming the design blah blah blah etc. that doesn’t mean much to me. Experienced trackers and racers know that OEM brake pads even in the higher performance models of cars are usually crap for a track.
Several knowledgeable people were telling me including myself were telling me I’d get “Half a day” from OEM front brake pads yeah right! More like 5 minutes at hot lap speeds!!! Turns out the pads Alfa chose to use we’re way softer than we thought.
Why does Alfa put such soft pads in these QVs?!
I guess they were worried because it’s brake by wire and they want to be real soft and squishy because they’re worried people may complain and say the brakes are shit?
Even the brake pads on the BMW M series are not very good at the track for fast drivers. Most people that buy these performance models never even track them so we spec them soft for street driving
Bottom line is most brake systems are adequate you just need to get very good track almost race type brake pads.
The calipers are almost always just fine of course use DOT4 brake fluid and change every 6 to 8 track days if you are a very hard driver.
The rotors are OK but you can certainly upgrade them two ones that cool better and last longer like slotted (not drilled) rotors. and save a little bit of unsprung weight by going to aftermarket performance rotors that usually cost the same as OEM rotors.
And of course the most important thing is you have to actually know how to drive a car using and cooling your brakes properly. A whole lot of people think they do but they don’t and they blame the design rather than their lack of knowledge to inspect size up the car’s braking capabilities before they get into a car on the track so they know what to expect. I instantly knew when my break pads were gone almost right on metal to metal. I could feel them giving out I noticed a different sound pads were gone. I then did my cooldown lap using no brakes whatsoever and came in and didn’t even have to look at the brakes to know that they were gone.
Some drivers aren’t expecting the brakes to overheat or wear out so quickly. Plus they may have some red mist going on so they don’t notice, feel or hear when the brakes are overheated or the pads are gone. Very dangerous. Very expensive repairs.
And if you put these race type pads on your car and driving on the street you also have to know what to expect and how to keep squeaking too much. You don’t get a full on race pad, you get something tiny bit softer. You also have to know that you need to warm up your brakes before you use these hard pads or you can grind up the rotors quickly. And if you have been doing a lot of street driving the brakes squeal a lot at stop signs you can get rid of that squeal by doing a few hard stomps on the brakes to clean off glaze from rotor surface to stop squealing.
My plan is to use up my OEM rotors last 10-15 track days which would also be about three sets of dairy good track/race pads.
Then I will replace the rotors with some Girodisc ones which I will be able to push a little bit harder.
Good drivers know that brakes are everything! They are more powerful then horsepower, can be used to pre-load the suspension, rotate the car without turning the steering wheel and to safely get out of emergency.
The Stelvio lightly modded is a beast and the brakes are just fine once you understand them and you know what you need to change which is relatively inexpensive.

Some words from Porsche, one of the few companies that puts a decent brake pad and rotor in their performance models:
Porsche measures and boasts about braking power by relating it to the horsepower of its cars. In the basic 911, for example, is "a braking system that is approximately four times as powerful as the engine." The set I'm installing can do almost 1,500 hp worth of work, in a car that probably weighs about 2,500 pounds and whose engine on a good day might motor along at about 270 hp. Newer Porsche Turbo Brembos, 30 percent more capable than my set, are sometimes referred to as 2,000-hp "hand-of-God brakes," and can do His deceleration work all day long.
 

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There's a huge difference in the two braking systems, it's not just "an inch". The swept area is significantly larger in the CCM setup and the calipers are significantly larger.

Either way, I sincerely hope the braking system is up to snuff for you and you get some solid times in.
 

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Discussion Starter #140 (Edited)
There's a huge difference in the two braking systems, it's not just "an inch". The swept area is significantly larger in the CCM setup and the calipers are significantly larger.

Either way, I sincerely hope the braking system is up to snuff for you and you get some solid times in.
Thanks I hope so too! I guess we’ll see! Even if I only get 4 hard track days out of a set of front pads that’s acceptable at $400 a set. FYI I get 6 to 8 very hard days on my Giuila QV probably a little less with my widebody big tires now.
People told me I couldn’t track with the Giuila QV CCB’s either, but I did manage to get 4 hard track days out of set of front pads by flipping them. But at $1300 a set it was not really affordable. But Girodisc came to the rescue with their conversion to their steel rotors thank God!
Here’s a photo I don’t know if I’ve ever posted it before here of the CCB size and the steel size pads. As you can see it’s not a whole lot of size difference.
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