Alfa Romeo Giulia Forum banner

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Is it normal for the 2017 Ti Q4 to shift at 2K to 2.5k rpm when in dynamic mode under normal acceleration in the city? I found the shift points to be around the following speeds:

1st to 2nd = ~8 mph
2nd to 3rd = ~16 mph
3rd to 4th = ~23 mph

I find this massively annoying in Dynamic mode. In Normal or Advance, I can understand. But I would think the transmission should hold gears longer in Dynamic. Maybe keep the gear until 3k, that seems more reasonable. If it holds it'll be much more responsive for when you need some giddy up to pass someone. I don't feel it's very eager to downshift a gear unless I give it boot full. Even then, sometimes I've gone all the way down to the click (not passing it) and still no downshift.

Can you guys check it out and let me know if you're getting the same thing? Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,461 Posts
I don't feel it's very eager to downshift a gear unless I give it boot full. Even then, sometimes I've gone all the way down to the click (not passing it) and still no downshift.
This sounds odd. In D mode, if I go over half pedal length it will pull the gears to redline. And downshift if below 3k.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
MY18 Ti Sport shifts the same way. Seems the shift points start moving up the RPM range the more agresive you are with the throttle.
Ya...if from a standstill I give half throttle, or more, it will shift like you expect it would. However, at cruising speeds it doesn't alway downshift no matter how much throttle you give it (provided you don't pass the click). It's really annoying, and in circumstance it can be dangerous. Nothing worse than being in 3rd gear at 20 mph and you try to pass someone with a car coming up in the left lane and it doesn't downshift (unless I tell it to). Drives me nuts!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
MY 2017 RWD TI is really happy at dynamic mode and keeps revs pretty high for a while especially after if you go more than 50% on the throttle, but most of the time i drive in manual mode and shift gears my self. so i keep them in range i want :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
MY 2017 RWD TI is really happy at dynamic mode and keeps revs pretty high for a while especially after if you go more than 50% on the throttle, but most of the time i drive in manual mode and shift gears my self. so i keep them in range i want :)
I had a RWD Giulia as a loaner the other day for maintenance. It was a 2018. I thought it was noticeably peppier. I started to look into the weight difference between the AWD and RWD, and it is significant. So I attribute some of the performance deficit to the extra 300-500 lbs I have in my car. But that still doesn't explain the lack of downshifting.

When in dynamic and auto, do you notice if it downshifts every time when going to 50% throttle from various cruising speeds? Let's say 25, 35, and 45 MPH. I think I notice it doesn't downshift most around the 25 mph speed. It just sits in 4th gear no matter how much throttle I give. Eventually it gets into the power band and it will go to redline from there.

I've been trying everything. If I try to surge on the power, moderately going from 20% throttle to 50%+, it almost never downshifts. If I go quickly go from 20% to 50%+ it will occasionally downshift. Although, I can't figure out what the circumstances are that will or won't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
I'm not one that normally gives snarky responses to posts, so I apologize in advance if this comes off this way. I just can't understand why you would ever drive in dynamic mode and leave the car in automatic. I assume if you are driving in dynamic mode its because you want the maximum performance out of the car....which you are only going to get if you take control. Stick this baby into manual mode and enjoy those paddles....its the best part of owning a Giulia (you did get the paddles I hope!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I'm not one that normally gives snarky responses to posts, so I apologize in advance if this comes off this way. I just can't understand why you would ever drive in dynamic mode and leave the car in automatic. I assume if you are driving in dynamic mode its because you want the maximum performance out of the car....which you are only going to get if you take control. Stick this baby into manual mode and enjoy those paddles....its the best part of owning a Giulia (you did get the paddles I hope!)
Fair question, and thanks for prefacing it. I'm in Dynamic because, in Natural in traffic, I can't change lanes or pass anyone without flooring it. I was up in the mountains this weekend and using the paddles with dynamic. They are great for that. I was with a buddy that has a Focus RS and he was legitimately impressed with how good the Alfa was. But for traffic and daily driving on city streets in Denver, I just want the tranny to do the work for me. 8 gears means close ratio. Close ratio means, constant shifting in stop and go traffic. That just gets annoying, and I can't get used to it. Believe me I've tried.

On a related note, I'd happily take a real manual transmission. It's just so much more intuitive to drive than a manual shift auto. I have to think about manually shifting the auto, but regular manual transmission is second nature.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
fully agree that I'd prefer a full manual, and am hopeful that Alfa brings us one eventually. In the meanwhile, are you aware that even in automatic mode you can still use the paddles? You can downshift quickly and then in a few seconds after giving you the extra torque that you need, it will return back to D. I've found that in certain circumstances it doesn't return to D when I want it to....to force it just hold the right paddle for a couple of seconds and it will force it back into D.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,015 Posts
AWD Giulia versus RWD Giulia is about 130 pounds difference in weight, not 300-500 pounds.

Driving in D mode but using the throttle gently is simply wasting fuel as well as wear and tear on the engine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alfissimo

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
fully agree that I'd prefer a full manual, and am hopeful that Alfa brings us one eventually. In the meanwhile, are you aware that even in automatic mode you can still use the paddles? You can downshift quickly and then in a few seconds after giving you the extra torque that you need, it will return back to D. I've found that in certain circumstances it doesn't return to D when I want it to....to force it just hold the right paddle for a couple of seconds and it will force it back into D.
Ya I've done that in the meantime. But again, it's just not natural to do that. And when you're in traffic and a bus is about to pull over to stop and you have a gap to pass if you just get out quickly, you don't always have the time to react. Then you pull out and the car sitting in 4th at 1500 rpm and won't downshift. Now you've got no power. Just doesn't make sense to me that Dynamic mode would act that way.

I had a BMW 135is DCT (They weren't making anymore of them at the time and couldn't order a manual, nor were there any manuals on the way), it at least had a sport button for extra power AND a sport transmission mode that held gears longer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
AWD Giulia versus RWD Giulia is about 130 pounds difference in weight, not 300-500 pounds.

Driving in D mode but using the throttle gently is simply wasting fuel as well as wear and tear on the engine.
Thanks for your opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Funny thing is because it upshifts so quickly, I actually have no waste of fuel at all. I've done the comparison. And if you have some reference for the AWD vs RWD, I'd love to see it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
here is the weight comparison
Now that I have not seen. I did some google searching and never came across that. There was also a thread on here that was quoting people getting their cars weighed. Thanks for providing that. Where did you get it? Sunroof probably adds 50 lbs, give or take, too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,015 Posts
Funny thing is because it upshifts so quickly, I actually have no waste of fuel at all. I've done the comparison. And if you have some reference for the AWD vs RWD, I'd love to see it.
It will upshift much faster in A or N mode, keeping the RPMs below 2000. Plus, the torque converter lock up clutch is probably not locked as quickly in D mode, costing more fuel.

In my weekly 280 mile drive in the mountains (Lockeford to Coleville and back, if you care): all A mode: 31MPG. All A mode on a slightly different route except 40 miles of enthusiastic D mode: 26MPG; it makes a huge difference.

Reference the post above which shows 110 pounds for AWD. 130 pounds is for the Ghibli AWD system. At low speeds AWD accelerates faster as well, apparently due to having more traction. A sun roof is likely heavier than the AWD system. The wheels also make a difference in apparent weight/performance.
 

·
Registered
2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sport Ti AWD
Joined
·
5,737 Posts
At low speeds AWD accelerates faster as well, apparently due to having more traction.
Hopefully not too pedantic to suggest making the best use of the available traction rather than having more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WheelHaus

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
It will upshift much faster in A or N mode, keeping the RPMs below 2000. Plus, the torque converter lock up clutch is probably not locked as quickly in D mode, costing more fuel.

In my weekly 280 mile drive in the mountains (Lockeford to Coleville and back, if you care): all A mode: 31MPG. All A mode on a slightly different route except 40 miles of enthusiastic D mode: 26MPG; it makes a huge difference.

Reference the post above which shows 110 pounds for AWD. 130 pounds is for the Ghibli AWD system. At low speeds AWD accelerates faster as well, apparently due to having more traction. A sun roof is likely heavier than the AWD system. The wheels also make a difference in apparent weight/performance.
In my daily driving to and from work on the city streets of Denver, with no other driving anywhere. I get about a <1 mpg difference between N and D. Each driven on an entire tank. That difference isn't significant enough for me correlate to the difference in mode vs weekly driving variations. And AWD only accelerates faster if you're eating up your traction with max power, not in 50% throttle circumstances. The weight would be counteractive in normal driving. But based on the data shared, it's not enough to account for the effects that I'm feeling.

But all this is beside the point that for me, D mode doesn't hold gears or downshift readily enough. It's constantly looking to be at 1500 RPM. And I just want to know if this is normal operation for others, or if I should talk to service and get them working on a fix. I love this car, but it seems like it could be better if the transmission was a little more eager. I would think Dynamic would give me that, but it doesn't seem that way, unless I'm thrashing it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,015 Posts
In my daily driving to and from work on the city streets of Denver, with no other driving anywhere. I get about a <1 mpg difference between N and D. Each driven on an entire tank. That difference isn't significant enough for me correlate to the difference in mode vs weekly driving variations. And AWD only accelerates faster if you're eating up your traction with max power, not in 50% throttle circumstances. The weight would be counteractive in normal driving. But based on the data shared, it's not enough to account for the effects that I'm feeling.

But all this is beside the point that for me, D mode doesn't hold gears or downshift readily enough. It's constantly looking to be at 1500 RPM. And I just want to know if this is normal operation for others, or if I should talk to service and get them working on a fix. I love this car, but it seems like it could be better if the transmission was a little more eager. I would think Dynamic would give me that, but it doesn't seem that way, unless I'm thrashing it.
Supposedly the system adapts to your throttle habits. I was also told that this adaptation can be reset (along with a bunch of other things) by disconnecting the battery temporarily. I do not know for certain that either of these things are true.

If you need more power in a situation just swat the left paddle once or twice, preferably 1-2 seconds before you tap into the power.

Fuel economy is best at the lowest RPM that makes the necessary power. Full throttle at 2000RPM is more efficient than 1/2 throttle at 3000RPM (guestimating that those are about the same amount of power). It is easy to confuse noise with performance.
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top