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If you really wanted a stick then this sinks; however, if you were going with the Auto all along then this is actually good news since we didn't know if the Auto was a no-cost option ($2900 option on the M3) and it was rumored that 8-speed sales in the US were going to lag by a few months.
 

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Anything will prove that the eight speed auto is superior lol. Just depends on the individual on what they would enjoy more. A section of people will be in love with manual transmissions because they feel more of a connection with the car but if they really want it, they'll have to suck it up and bite the bullet.
 

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The eight speed is superior on the race track and when one is stuck in traffic, but under all other driving conditions the manual is vastly superior. Most people do not buy their car to race it on a race track they buy it to drive it around. The manual gives a sense of connection with the car which cannot be replicated by an automatic gearbox. It also makes one to be a better driver because it forces the person to think ahead and anticipate any necessary gear shifts. The automatic is like driving a train, you apply the throttle and you ride along. At least that is my opinion.
According to the article "Alfa said a low take rate for manuals in the States prompted the company to nix the stick-shift option on our shores." I am calling a bull**** on this one.
The take rate on manuals are low because in the past 20 years manual transmissions have been offered by most manufacturers mostly on the basic models and these days it is barely offered at all. How do they know what the manual's take rate on the Giulia will be if the order books haven't even opened yet? The manual should be offered both on the QV and the Ti, even if it is a special order extra. I would gladly pay a $1,000 extra for the manual. They should sell what the customers want. One size fits all that's the easiest solution. Hugely disappointed. This just goes against the whole promise that the Alfas will be driver oriented cars.
 

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The eight speed is superior on the race track and when one is stuck in traffic, but under all other driving conditions the manual is vastly superior. Most people do not buy their car to race it on a race track they buy it to drive it around. The manual gives a sense of connection with the car which cannot be replicated by an automatic gearbox. It also makes one to be a better driver because it forces the person to think ahead and anticipate any necessary gear shifts. The automatic is like driving a train, you apply the throttle and you ride along. At least that is my opinion.
According to the article "Alfa said a low take rate for manuals in the States prompted the company to nix the stick-shift option on our shores." I am calling a bull**** on this one.
The take rate on manuals are low because in the past 20 years manual transmissions have been offered by most manufacturers mostly on the basic models and these days it is barely offered at all. How do they know what the manual's take rate on the Giulia will be if the order books haven't even opened yet? The manual should be offered both on the QV and the Ti, even if it is a special order extra. I would gladly pay a $1,000 extra for the manual. They should sell what the customers want. One size fits all that's the easiest solution. Hugely disappointed. This just goes against the whole promise that the Alfas will be driver oriented cars.
I wouldn't rule it out entirely. Everything I've been told by my Rep and Trainer is precursed with "for now" or "as of now." Sending only Auto's until the pre-spec run is done and dealers begin to order cars then opening up the manual option or making it a sold order only option would make sense. I'll prod a bit and see what I find out after initial arrival craze.
 

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maybe in the future a stick is possible.

but for now alfa is quite right and the clients who have the money to buy a QV will take the paddle shifters, i am sure.

also, a 1000 is not enough for a QV stick.

you need to make a difference between what enthusiasts talk about and what the fat cats with the cash are going to buy.

big difference.
 

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I'll tell you whats bull***t... is for anyone to believe that the only way to have a "drivers oriented experience" is with a manual transmission.
I figure on having a grand time with an 8 speed auto in my quad.
 

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Also...IMO manual transmissions are MORE distracting because your always having to think about the next shift, (when will it come? When do i move the lever? ...etc).
I'd rather focus on what my next move (steering) will be. and have almost instantaneous shifts , i don't have to worry about whether or not i'm in the correct gear for the situation i'm in.
 

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Well, I can live with being stuck with a good paddle shifter if it's an Alfa. Or rather, ONLY if it's an Alfa! That said, the moment the manual version is introduced, I'll probably trade in the auto and switch right away. To me, all the "distractions" being introduced by stick shift are actually what make it engaging... :)
 

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Love these auto vs manual arguments. Obviously contemporary auto transmissions are faster and more efficient than a manual, and like Chris Harris, many people are going to think the Giulia (Quad at least) is a more enjoyable car with the 8-spd auto. So whatever you like, fine, but it's not a question about what's "best" but clearly just a matter of preference.

For me the preference for a manual simply comes down to the pleasure in doing something that takes a certain amount of skill and even artistry to really do well, as in any hobby. Because I've been conditioned by my old Alfa transmissions, I now double-clutch on downshifts even when shifting modern, more robust, transmissions just because I enjoy nailing a butter smooth gear change, much like rev matching before engaging the clutch but more involved and more rewarding.

Sure I can get a car that rev matches for you, like a friend's 991, or a car that shifts for you (or at least works the clutch), as most people prefer. Taken to an extreme, I'll one day be able to get a car that drives for me. But at some point, there's no longer a benefit from all those aids if the goal is to enjoy driving. So you have to draw the line somewhere, and for me it's at the type of transmission. Shifting one's self is not the fastest or most efficient way to change gears any longer, but it's what I enjoy, so it would be nice to have that option in a new Alfa Romeo; I mean if any car should have a manual option, it's an Alfa. If it doesn't happen -- if the Giulia never comes to NA with a manual -- I might still get a Giulia as a part-time daily driver, but it won't replace my 6-spd E46 or 5-spd Milano, as I had thought it might. Which means I won't be buying one new for sure.
 

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I really can't make a call on what I would enjoy most until I've driven both. Some cars I prefer a manual, but in others, such as the 4C... it's engaging enough as is that I don't feel the need for a manual transmission. Everyone has preferences, but I think every car has a distinct personality, some are better suited as blondes, some brunettes.
 

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All it really comes down to is peoples preference. Some people rag on manual because they can't drive one properly so they just shift the weight of the argument (not saying that's happening here). Some people don't have to endure loads of traffic and they enjoy cycling through gears and enjoy rev-matching, double-clutching, heel-toeing, whatever. Some people feel the need to cycle through gears to be able to "feel the experience".

Then there's those that can fully enjoy a vehicle equally as much if it had an automatic. Some may even enjoy the quick smooth shifts in the automatic over shifting a manual. It's all personal preference.

When it comes down to track times, it has been proven that the automatics will be faster. Why ? Because an automatic can shift a hella lot faster than anyone can pull that shifter.

Overall enjoyment, pfft. Either/Or is suitable. Different strokes for different folks my friends :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
My main issue here is that this is a torque converter automatic and not a dual clutch, as should have been, given how technologically advanced this car is.
 

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That I'll agree with. The only reason I liked torque converters back in the days was because you could rip it out and install a higher stall torque converter. Those days are long gone and this isn't a vehicle for that purpose anyhow.
 

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My main issue here is that this is a torque converter automatic and not a dual clutch, as should have been, given how technologically advanced this car is.
This is where I disagree. Most can find from a google search that we experienced a huge amount of issues with the dual clutch in the 500L. That dual clutch wouldn't handle Giulia power and would require development of an entirely new transmission or borrow from Ferrari (I'm not sure how much maintenance/what long term durability looks like on that 7 speed box in the 458 and F12). With Alfa success depending on the Giulia and a major worry of mainstream consumers being reliability, that's a huge gamble. The 458 Italia dual clutch box shifts in roughly 100 milliseconds. If I remember correctly the ZF box shifts in 150 milliseconds. I realize parasitic power loss and weight are other factors but from a pure reliability standpoint I am soooo happy about the transmission choice. That's just my opinion though haha.
 

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Re torque converter vs dual clutch, reviewers, including Chris Harris, have said that this ZF 8-spd feels just as fast-shifting as a dual clutch (I think Harris said it feels just like a dual clutch). That being the case, I'd prefer it to a dual clutch as I've driven a few of the latter, and while they are impressive once the car is going they tend to be less than ideal in stop and start traffic, which makes up part of my daily commute. So the Giulia's ZF would seem to have the strengths of both a traditional auto trans and a dual clutch -- smoothness and quick shifts. Nice for my commute as well as setting Nurburgring records, so what's not to like (if getting an auto)? This is not your grandfather's slush box, obviously.

I'm with the above poster. If I end up getting one of these, I'll be so glad it has the ZF and not a dual clutch.
 

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I agree with Rutlefan. My current car has a DCT. While it is fantastic overall, the 2>1 downshift is offen clunky, and can often be irritating. Otherwise it is fantastic. It's a discussion point for any car with a DCT, causing the transmission to lose credibility.

Alfa was wise to avoid the controversy. The videos of the Giulia's ZF in action show it to be impressively quick and smooth. No need to second-guess their engineering wisdom, at this point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
This is where I disagree. Most can find from a google search that we experienced a huge amount of issues with the dual clutch in the 500L. That dual clutch wouldn't handle Giulia power and would require development of an entirely new transmission or borrow from Ferrari (I'm not sure how much maintenance/what long term durability looks like on that 7 speed box in the 458 and F12). With Alfa success depending on the Giulia and a major worry of mainstream consumers being reliability, that's a huge gamble. The 458 Italia dual clutch box shifts in roughly 100 milliseconds. If I remember correctly the ZF box shifts in 150 milliseconds. I realize parasitic power loss and weight are other factors but from a pure reliability standpoint I am soooo happy about the transmission choice. That's just my opinion though haha.
Well the appropriate transmission would have been the Getrag used in the M3. Yes, it needs more software work than the torque converter one but not a lot more and, more importantly, FCA has the expertise in house. You can't compare these wet clutchs Getrags with the dry clutch from the 500L.

getrag.com/media/products/powershift/7dci700/7DCI700~2.pdf
 
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