[Avnyc11]

I can confirm that since updating to 085, I can no longer rev while in park above ~3500rpm

I know this was discussed previously and some thought only the qv could but I can confirm that it is software based, and my qv which once could can no longer

As to why I want to rev while in park, once was to create my xpipe to stock comparison video, the other was to let my friends hear this amazing Ferrari engine, and the pop that occurs around red line

 

[JeFizz]

I can confirm that since updating to 085, I can no longer rev while in park above ~3500rpm

I know this was discussed previously and some thought only the qv could but I can confirm that it is software based, and my qv which once could can no longer

As to why I want to rev while in park, once was to create my xpipe to stock comparison video, the other was to let my friends hear this amazing Ferrari engine, and the pop that occurs around red line

085 should have nothing to do with the ECM. That's an Infotainment version, not ECM, BCM, or TCM version. I've never been able to rev over 3500... ok, well, after the Euro+Drive tune I can, but that's cheating.

 

[chaadster]

Yeah, if we’re talking about the infotainment version reading like MV-085.xxx.xxx, being abbreviated as 085, then that should not affect engine performance, as I understand it.

Perhaps some other update was applied when the dealer did the infotainment?

 

[Yaibal]

There are other modules updated during the infotainment update procedure. I don’t think the ECM is one of those, but one of the modules has to be the culprit. Maybe BCM?

 

[Giuliano]

I can confirm that since updating to 085, I can no longer rev while in park above ~3500rpm

I know this was discussed previously and some thought only the qv could but I can confirm that it is software based, and my qv which once could can no longer

As to why I want to rev while in park, once was to create my xpipe to stock comparison video, the other was to let my friends hear this amazing Ferrari engine, and the pop that occurs around red line

Hi @Avnyc11, could you please share some more details about the Ferrari engine?. I am telling my friends about it, too but, I do not have details (or even proof) to show. As everything one can see on and around the engine says Alfa Romeo, people (and me) do not understand that it is a Ferrari engine. I have not investigated or read too much either so, I would like to have some background and information on it.

 

[jwq2]

Hi @Avnyc11, could you please share some more details about the Ferrari engine?. I am telling my friends about it, too but, I do not have details (or even proof) to show. As everything one can see on and around the engine says Alfa Romeo, people (and me) do not understand that it is a Ferrari engine. I have not investigated or read too much either so, I would like to have some background and information on it.

Enjoy :
(See f.i. page 16....)

Qiulia QV

 

[Yaibal]

It also shares the name. The Giulia engine’s name is F154 V6. The F154 is the 3.8L Twin Turbo V8.

I really think it comes down to the block of our V6 being derived from the standard F154. There’s lots of differences.

some differences I know about:

No flat-plane crank in our V6. From my understanding, the V6 is naturally a pretty unbalanced setup. Especially at 90 degrees. You need a cross-plane crank to account for this. Also, ours will rev lower, in part due to the above.

Our turbos are a single scroll design. This is due to the uneven number of cylinders per bank.

Our F154 V6 has a wet sump oil setup instead of dry sump

I’m sure there’s many more.

 

[Shiny_side_up]

Based on all my reading, it's not a Ferrari engine. It's an amazing piece of engineering from Alfa Romeo that happened to be worked on by ex-Ferrari engineers. Yes it's the same parent company. Does that make it a Ferrari engine? I don't personally believe so. When Hyundai hired away the BMW M guy to work on their "N" cars, did that make the Veloster N a BMW M engine? No. As much as magazines like to call it "a California T with 2 cylinders lopped off" that's not the case. It's a different block that happens to share the same bore and stroke. (again, based on my reading - I'm not an expert but I trust everything I read on the Internet). Alfa is guilty of playing up the Ferrari relationship for this engine, but you'll find that they "strongly insinuate" but never flat out claim that it's designed by Ferrari or that it's build by Ferrari. You'll see phrases like "inspired by" for Ferrari blah, or build by engineers "with Ferrari backgrounds". personally I feel that all the Ferrari relation claims only reduce the credit that the Alfa Romeo engineering team deserve for what they accomplished with this engine. The only connection I remind people of when they ask about my car and Ferrari is "you know Enzo used to work for Alfa, right?"

But back to the original topic, I know that in the past I've revved past 3500 in neutral. I know there are a few parking lot instagram videos around that start off with someone yelling "rev it!" to me after I've given them a tour of the car. But that said, I've probably had at least one update since the last time I did that, so I'll have to try it the next time I'm in the car.

 

[Yaibal]

Based on all my reading, it's not a Ferrari engine. It's an amazing piece of engineering from Alfa Romeo that happened to be worked on by ex-Ferrari engineers. Yes it's the same parent company. Does that make it a Ferrari engine? I don't personally believe so. When Hyundai hired away the BMW M guy to work on their "N" cars, did that make the Veloster N a BMW M engine? No. As much as magazines like to call it "a California T with 2 cylinders lopped off" that's not the case. It's a different block that happens to share the same bore and stroke. (again, based on my reading - I'm not an expert but I trust everything I read on the Internet). Alfa is guilty of playing up the Ferrari relationship for this engine, but you'll find that they "strongly insinuate" but never flat out claim that it's designed by Ferrari or that it's build by Ferrari. You'll see phrases like "inspired by" for Ferrari blah, or build by engineers "with Ferrari backgrounds". personally I feel that all the Ferrari relation claims only reduce the credit that the Alfa Romeo engineering team deserve for what they accomplished with this engine. The only connection I remind people of when they ask about my car and Ferrari is "you know Enzo used to work for Alfa, right?"

But back to the original topic, I know that in the past I've revved past 3500 in neutral. I know there are a few parking lot instagram videos around that start off with someone yelling "rev it!" to me after I've given them a tour of the car. But that said, I've probably had at least one update since the last time I did that, so I'll have to try it the next time I'm in the car.

I believe the car was developed by Ferrari engineers. Chassis and engine. FCA owned Ferrari during this period of time.

I do know FCA currently manufactures the engine. I read that somewhere but can’t link a source atm.

IMO, since being sold Ferrari doesn’t want to be associated with Alfa. And vice versa for Alfa. They like to throw around the Ferrari DNA.

The Giulia QV is essentially a “budget” Ferrari 4 door sedan. You know Ferrari hates to have their name thrown around about a car that can be had for 75k.... or less.

 

[Giuliano]

Thanks a lot @jwq2. I'll try to download and save that technical manual on my PC, if I can. This is a valuable piece of education. In any case, to my question in above post, after reading that page #15 of the manual, I guess that the closet that our QV engine is to a Ferrari engine is ".... the 2.9 V6 Turbo came into being from the Alfa Romeo and Ferrari engineers ....". That is completely different than "it is a Ferrari engine" and I think I will stop claiming that.

 

[Avnyc11]

I just assumed it was 085 but I also had all of my other modules updated at the same time so one of them put the limit in place

My original point was just that this was once possible but no longer is

 

[Crosshairs]

Make sure the engine is fully warmed up and try it again....some soft limiters are temperature based and with no load applied a cold engine may not rev as high as a warm engine
This may or may not be the case here, but it's easy enough to check

 

[beaups]

It also shares the name. The Giulia engine’s name is F154 V6. The F154 is the 3.8L Twin Turbo V8.

I really think it comes down to the block of our V6 being derived from the standard F154. There’s lots of differences.

some differences I know about:

No flat-plane crank in our V6. From my understanding, the V6 is naturally a pretty unbalanced setup. Especially at 90 degrees. You need a cross-plane crank to account for this. Also, ours will rev lower, in part due to the above.

Our turbos are a single scroll design. This is due to the uneven number of cylinders per bank.

Our F154 V6 has a wet sump oil setup instead of dry sump

I’m sure there’s many more.

I thought the QV was flat plane crank, and the only flat plane 6 in production. I am not certain, but the high lumpy idle and relatively low pitch sound vs rpm would seem to corroborate that.

 

[Yaibal]

I thought the QV was flat plane crank, and the only flat plane 6 in production. I am not certain, but the high lumpy idle and relatively low pitch sound vs rpm would seem to corroborate that.

Enjoy :
(See f.i. page 16....)

Qiulia QV

See page 49 of the above linked document. It looks cross-plane to me.

I read the lumpy idle and the nice exhaust note can be attributed to the 90 degree angle (shared with the standard F154) and the inherently unbalanced V6. Some Italian character for sure. I love the idle of the QV. I found that most civilized V6s are 60 degree designs to deal with things like the rough idle and noise.

Apparently Flat-planes can work well with V8s because the cylinders firing can naturally balance the negative forces out.

I’m not an auto-engineer. But I did get really interested in the ins and outs of our F154 V6. These are just tidbits I’ve read and a few inferences I’ve made.

 

[Shiny_side_up]

I'll see if I can find the reference, but IIRC, the 90^ V6 design is due to the cylinder deactivation.

 

[Yaibal]

I'll see if I can find the reference, but IIRC, the 90^ V6 design is due to the cylinder deactivation.

It’s also the same V angle of the F154 V8.

This is where I attribute the “Cali T with 2 cylinders lopped off” comments. Many things have changed, but Ferrari engineers had access to manufacturing capacities and processes that would have made “lopping off 2 cylinders” much more efficient than designing a completely new engine from the ground up.

If they had designed the a V6 from the ground up, it likely would have been a 60 degree platform.

 

[Il_Conte]

IMO, since being sold Ferrari doesn’t want to be associated with Alfa. And vice versa for Alfa. They like to throw around the Ferrari DNA.

I disagree.. this below is the F1 2017. You can spot the Alfa quadrifoglio on the back of the car..

https://e0.365dm.com/17/03/768x432/skysports-ferrari-f1-testing-raikkonen-kimi_3905605.jpg?20170308141346

 

[MDriver]

paging @MacGeek we have a clean-up in aisle 1

 

[JeFizz]

If that picture on Page 50 is to be trusted, that is not flat plane. Flat plane is a single plane, so half of the pistons are at TDC and the other half are at BDC. That picture clearly shows the crank to have around 90° of separation. Page 51 shows the pistons and rods attached, there are many planes to be had.

 

[Domex]

Enjoy :
(See f.i. page 16....)

Qiulia QV

That link is pure gold. Thanks for sharing jwq2


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