Alfa Romeo Giulia Forum banner
1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
646 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know that some in this forum have touched on this, but I wanted to open a dedicated post to the distinction of Q2 vs Q4 in the Giulia. I'm wondering whether to spring for the Q4 or not. Here's my story. My heart is always with a rear wheel drive car. I've owned a few BMW's and I love the handling of RWD, but I've had a tendency to get the rear ends loose in anything but perfect weather. I live in Florida, so snow is not an issue. The main issue is rain. In my particular area, there is a micro-climate which means I get over 270 days per year of some amount of rain. Wet streets are not so great. I also drive in an urban environment where I have to make aggressive left turns across traffic, or pull out quickly from side streets and merge into fast moving traffic or risk getting rear ended. My last 3 cars have all been AWD. And I love the fact that I never have traction issues, even with not-fresh tires. These cars are always clawing for traction and find it, even when the power is laid on. If one wheel is slipping, I know at least the others are picking up the slack. Is Alfa's limited slip on the RWD car good enough to compensate for losing traction and still keep the car moving? There's nothing scarier than turning left across oncoming traffic and the car starts limping because the wheels have lost traction and are spinning. Put aside the issue of having the 'right' kind of tire - I'm well versed with that issue.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,086 Posts
my last car was RWD with no traction and I find the Q4 extremely well handled and VERY grippy. No regrets here. I think what you described Q4 sounds more up your street as i'm assuming you're not going to be entering any drift competitions soon ;) AWD is great off the lights too (so I hear!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
658 Posts
I would say if maximum grip is your primary concern then AWD is the only way to go. I test drove the AWD and liked it but could feel it transferring the power at the limit to the front wheels and decided that wasn't the feeling I wanted and ordered a RWD with LSD but I'm coming from a bunch of miles driven in an E46.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
I'm new here with my Giulia AWD, so a little late on this thread. It hardly ever rains here in Seattle, almost 6 weeks now with no rain! :smile2:

However, if it ever does rain or snow here then I'll be happy to have the AWD from what I understand about the Giulia's AWD performance. Also I have seen test figures that show the Giulia 2WD, 0-60 in 5.7 seconds, but the AWD a considerably faster 0-60 in 5.1 seconds. That's going to be helpful when I'm racing my neighbor's down at the signal lights. :grin2:
 

·
Registered
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
Joined
·
7,729 Posts
I'm new here with my Giulia AWD, so a little late on this thread. It hardly ever rains here in Seattle, almost 6 weeks now with no rain! :smile2:

However, if it ever does rain or snow here then I'll be happy to have the AWD from what I understand about the Giulia's AWD performance. Also I have seen test figures that show the Giulia 2WD, 0-60 in 5.7 seconds, but the AWD a considerably faster 0-60 in 5.1 seconds. That's going to be helpful when I'm racing my neighbor's down at the signal lights. :grin2:
My brother-in-law and I were once discussing a drought and he asked "what do you call it when it does not rain for 3 months". My answer was "summer".

Curiously, these guys seem to think that the extra 130 pounds of weight for the AWD system cancels the extra traction of AWD:

http://www.060calculator.com

I used 3550 pounds for Q2 (from Racer Z's measurement) and 3680 pounds for Q4 (+130 pounds from AR's claim). 310HP, as estimated from RWHP measurements. Note that there is no way to tell the calculator that you have a fast shifting second generation ZF automatic transmission. Not quite as fast as a DCT, but almost.

The calculator also does not have any means to consider torque limits that may be imposed in low gears. The RWD drive train is likely to have more severe torque limits, since it is the driveshaft and differential that are most likely to have problems with low-gear excessive torque and the AWD can "divide" the torque between 2 driveshafts and 2 differentials.

The Q4 sits 1 inch (25mm) higher in front and 0.5 inch (12mm) higher in the rear than Q2. This alters the wheel gaps, "stance", and handling. On the plus side, Q4 is less likely to get high centered on a speed bump or scrape on a driveway. It is not obvious if Q4 can be lowered to the same height as Q2. The bottom of either is smooth and covered, hiding the details.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
527 Posts
Unless you live in a climate where AWD is necessary (read: rains a lot or snows), then get the RWD.
Lighter and better gas mileage.

Lighter is always better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alfa in Vegas

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
As an owner of two Audis in the past, I found the AWD (Quattro) completely useless even in heavy rains, it makes the car feel squirrelly somehow, like a baby deer on ice. It also makes the steering feel more numb and road imperfections more pronounced. RWD to me has a much better fell overall.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
138 Posts
When I ordered my TI the dealer stated that since we are in the north east (nj to be exact ) the adw drive was the easiest to get , the wait would be longer for a rear wheel model. But before I purchased the alfa, I looked at the Cadillac ATS and it was the same story, both dealer's told me it would be easier for them to sell after the lease was up. But I am not going to return this baby I'll probably buy it at the end, unless the TI gets a horsepower upgrade
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
There's a couple of variables to consider here. Wet weather traction isn't always about AWD or RWD.

I live in Denver and you probably assume we gets snow in the winter, and you'd be right. In my time here, I've had 2 RWD BMWs and a few AWD cars (Golf R, MazdaSpeed6, and the Giulia Ti Q4). People always thought I was nuts driving my 335i and 135is in the snow. But I had snow tires on those cars. And I can tell you, TIRES ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR FOR TRACTION. If you have AWD and performance tires in the snow, you may be able to move forward without much issues, but try stopping or turning and you don't end up where you planned to.

The same is true for rain, just less exaggerated. If you've got performance tires, your rain traction will suffer. You can make up for some of that traction with AWD, especially in the hard accelerating/crossing lanes with traffic coming at you circumstances. But just driving down the highway in heavy rain and standing water, it's the tires that are doing most of the work.

Now here's what I love about the Giulia Q4. It's RWD unless the wheels slip. So you get the best of both worlds. And as I stated in another post, I replace the tires on my leases immediately with tires of my choosing (I store the stock tires so that at lease end I can put them back on). So my Q4 has AWD and Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ on them. Now I've got improved dry traction and handling, and the AWD takes care of the times that I need extra traction. But because my dry traction is improved, when I'm up in the mountains on the twists, my car isn't engaging the front wheels...no matter how much fun I'm trying to have.

I highly recommend looking into getting the right tires for you on your car, no matter what you decide on Q2 vs Q4. And tirerack.com is a great resource to see what you can expect from a tire in various conditions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,344 Posts
In an AWD you are always going to understeer as they don't rotate as the RWD. If you are not going to track the car in advanced groups, you will be just fine with the AWD. JMHO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
There's a couple of variables to consider here. Wet weather traction isn't always about AWD or RWD.

I live in Denver and you probably assume we gets snow in the winter, and you'd be right. In my time here, I've had 2 RWD BMWs and a few AWD cars (Golf R, MazdaSpeed6, and the Giulia Ti Q4). People always thought I was nuts driving my 335i and 135is in the snow. But I had snow tires on those cars. And I can tell you, TIRES ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR FOR TRACTION. If you have AWD and performance tires in the snow, you may be able to move forward without much issues, but try stopping or turning and you don't end up where you planned to.

The same is true for rain, just less exaggerated. If you've got performance tires, your rain traction will suffer. You can make up for some of that traction with AWD, especially in the hard accelerating/crossing lanes with traffic coming at you circumstances. But just driving down the highway in heavy rain and standing water, it's the tires that are doing most of the work.

Now here's what I love about the Giulia Q4. It's RWD unless the wheels slip. So you get the best of both worlds. And as I stated in another post, I replace the tires on my leases immediately with tires of my choosing (I store the stock tires so that at lease end I can put them back on). So my Q4 has AWD and Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ on them. Now I've got improved dry traction and handling, and the AWD takes care of the times that I need extra traction. But because my dry traction is improved, when I'm up in the mountains on the twists, my car isn't engaging the front wheels...no matter how much fun I'm trying to have.

I highly recommend looking into getting the right tires for you on your car, no matter what you decide on Q2 vs Q4. And tirerack.com is a great resource to see what you can expect from a tire in various conditions.
This was really informative for me.

I'm also considering changing out the run-flat Pirelli Cinturato P7's that came with our Q4, to improve handling.

Would you mind sharing your impressions of how the change to the Michelins affected ride/comfort and noise, if at all?
 

·
Registered
'17 Ti Sport Q4 w/ Active Shocks & LSD
Joined
·
798 Posts
Firehawk 500s replaced P7 Runflats on Q4

This was really informative for me.

I'm also considering changing out the run-flat Pirelli Cinturato P7's that came with our Q4, to improve handling.

Would you mind sharing your impressions of how the change to the Michelins affected ride/comfort and noise, if at all?
following the instruction of another friend on the forum, I hit up the TireRack for a set of Firestone fire hawk Indy 500s, in the 225 40R19 match for the original square spec on my Q4. These are budget priced summer tires with a 350 treadwear rating. Extremely pleased with them for less than $120 per tire. Skidpad improved from .81 to 1.01+, road noise ever so slightly louder at freeway speeds. biggest improvement was the near telepathic steering response, improving on the already terrific steering of the car. Road comfort is virtually identical to the Pirelli's.

although not Michelin's, this was a distinct step up for the car as a whole, and preserved my Pirelli's for winter use or return at the end of the lease.

Very, very pleased.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
This was really informative for me.

I'm also considering changing out the run-flat Pirelli Cinturato P7's that came with our Q4, to improve handling.

Would you mind sharing your impressions of how the change to the Michelins affected ride/comfort and noise, if at all?
In the very first day of driving, I thought the Pilot's had slightly more road noise, but I couldn't tell if that just the road I was on or what. I honestly don't notice anything in regular driving anymore. When you push the car, the grip is WAAAAAAAAAYYYY better. I had to do an emergency stop when I was on the Pirellis and they screeched a little. You could feel them losing a bit on hard corners too. But the Pilot's handle much better. I really like them so far. Responsiveness is improved as well as stability.

I went with them because they have some snow capability. Plus temperature swings in CO are sometimes as much as 50º F. So you're driving at 30º in the morning and 80º in the afternoon. Summer only tires don't like getting below 40º-50º. So the all season makes sense for me to extend the driving season on them before potentially needing to switch to snow tires.

The Firestone being mentioned sounds like a great summer tire. Looking at the tread pattern it should be able to handle some wet weather too, but i'm not sure heavy wet weather or standing water will be great. These are serious summer tires. I like to compare the tire rack lap times to get an idea of actual dry and wet performance across different tire categories. They use the same car with the same track to get a time and they average the lap times to get more comparable time. So looking at the Firestone, dry = 30.02 sec and wet is 35.45. The Michelins are, dry = 30.33 and wet = 33.97 seconds. So on the Michelins you lose 3 tenths in the dry but gain a second and half in the wet. Depends what you're looking for and what you're willing to spend. Compare both to the Pirellis which are, dry = 30.98 and wet = 34.46.

The Michelins made further sense for me because I lease and the tread life is better, so it's not likely I'll need to replace with a second set before the lease is up. They'll carry me through to the end and then I can reinstall the Pirelli's and give it back and get a QV ;)

Hope this helps!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
646 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
If you've got performance tires, your rain traction will suffer. You can make up for some of that traction with AWD, especially in the hard accelerating/crossing lanes with traffic coming at you circumstances.

Now here's what I love about the Giulia Q4. It's RWD unless the wheels slip. So you get the best of both worlds. And as I stated in another post, I replace the tires on my leases immediately with tires of my choosing (I store the stock tires so that at lease end I can put them back on)
This is the point.

Slip with RWD renders you a sitting duck in an urban environment. And I agree, performance tires for a car like the Giulia are a must.

The torquier the car, the more the AWD matters.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
Researching the right tire to buy to replace the factory Pirelli tires will be almost as much fun as when I picked out the Giulia!

Okay, maybe not, but it'll still be fun.

Can't wait for the improved handling! :)
 

·
Registered
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
Joined
·
7,729 Posts
Here is what I come up with for my "on order" Q4 with 19" sport package:

For winter, replace the tires with Michelin XIce 245 40R19. Use the original 5 hole rims.

On the assumption that the 19x8 5 hole rims weigh in at 24 pounds or so:

For summer, install Dark Tecnico 19x8.5 rims (19.25 pounds each) on all 4 corners with Michelin Sport A/S 3 255 35R19 tires. If also used with a titanium wheel stud set this should shed around 6 pounds per wheel relative to the original configuration; at least according to the information that I have available right now. I like the look of the 5 hole rims better, but cannot overlook the consequences of this much unsprung weight difference. I believe the Tecnicos are about twice the price of the 5 hole rims <ouch>. Maybe the 19x8.5 5 hole rims for QV are lighter than the similar rims for the Ti?

It is important to note that summer tires turn brittle and can fail if the temperature gets down to "cool". Some mfgs even void the warranty if the tire is simply exposed (not installed, driven, or inflated) to temperatures below 40F, although most only warn that the tire is not suitable for use below 40F or 45F. Tomorrow's (mid-summer) forecast over night low prediction at my house is 38F (followed by a high of 88F) and it is usually cooler on the passes that I go over to get to the house. In addition Tirerack claims that the warm weather dry road performance difference between the Sport A/S 3 and the Sport S4 is very small.

Other notes: High performance snow/ice tires are not available in the 255 35R19 size according to tire rack. Top rated for snow/ice performance Bridgestone Blizzaks are not available in a 19" size that will fit Giulia.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
I'm new here with my Giulia AWD, so a little late on this thread. It hardly ever rains here in Seattle, almost 6 weeks now with no rain! :smile2:

However, if it ever does rain or snow here then I'll be happy to have the AWD from what I understand about the Giulia's AWD performance. Also I have seen test figures in reviews that show the Giulia 2WD, 0-60 in 5.7 seconds, but the AWD a considerably faster 0-60 in 5.1 seconds. That's going to be helpful when I'm racing my neighbor's down at the signal lights. :grin2:

As I mentioned, I am new here with a 4 week old Giulia. I can't even figure out yet how to post photos in the new member section. I used to use Photobucket in my Audio/HT forum but PB just dropped me and demanded $400 a year to post in forums! My friend said to use Flikr, but I'm so old and a computer dummy I can't figure out how to drag and drop the photos here.

To the point, I was cash limited and wanted a Rosso Red (only, non-Ti) Giulia Q4. There were several in my metro area at different dealers. The only one that was a Q4 and had only the three packages I wanted, had AWD (see signature). That is fine with me and the limited number of 2WD's in my area had sun roofs or other packages I didn't care for.

Best of all, with the Alfa factory cash rebate and dealer super discount, I got the $44,740 MSRP out the door before taxes, license, registration, etc, for $38,200! That price with AWD, which I actually prefer from my research makes me one very happy Italian camper!

:smile2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Here is what I come up with for my "on order" Q4 with 19" sport package:

For winter, replace the tires with Michelin XIce 245 40R19. Use the original 5 hole rims.
Better to run a narrower tire in the winter. 245/40 on the 19x8 is a bit much. I'm going to be running 225/45 on a 18x8 for winters. Either going with the Blizzak WS80 or Pirelli Sottozero 3
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top