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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

Some of you may know me on this forum from the continued cold start misfire issues I’ve been having with my 2019 Quadrifoglio. As a result, I’ve started casually browsing other brands in case I need to get out of this car.

I had my sights set on a Porsche 992 911 C4S until I test drove one today. I left feeling very surprised, and somewhat frustrated by my disappointment in what is supposed to be one of the most coveted driver’s cars in the world. I left preferring my QV.

Below are some first impressions - I’ve been trying to piece together data (dyno curves, gear ratios, etc.) that might explain my experience, but I’ve not been successful. I’d appreciate any input from folks who have owned or driven both.

First Impressions:

  • 911 feels like precision machine more than a car, more “put together” than the QV, less eventful overall
  • 911 feels way heavier than the QV, even though it’s not
  • 911 has surgical, but heavier steering than QV
  • 911 has stiffer suspension, zero body roll, completely glued to the road vs. the QV which sometimes likes to dance about
  • Shifts on a 911 felt like non-events; could barely perceive they were happening vs. the QV which bucks when you shift it
  • 911 torque in lower RPMs felt less powerful than QV - this was probably the most surprising to me. I had to get the 911 up to higher revs to make it exciting
  • The QV feels “zippier.” I had to make the 911 travel through more of its rev range in a given gear to achieve the same feeling of acceleration I get from the QV. 911 acceleration feels noticeably faster than the QV when doing this, but I also end up reaching higher speeds, which I don’t want to do
  • The 911 exhaust feels more like screaming/wailing, while the QV has a deeper/raspier tone and gear shifts that are just way more appealing to me. 911 beats QV in the “pops and crackles” dimension

So there you have it. I went in convinced the 911 would blow the QV out of the water in every way. But I left confused that I preferred my unreliable but incredibly exciting by comparison QV.

What gives? Am I stuck with her forever?
 

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I think you just got to witness first hand how the Porsche does it effortlessly and that gives off the feeling it’s less Exciting. It’s really just a testament of how well that 911 is designed. No mistake the QV drives very well. Maybe still in top 10 drivers cars after 5 years now. But If you were to have them side by side on a track you would see the difference in how the QV would Have to push its limits just to hang with a 911 running at 80%. That’s not bad a thing.
 

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What about a gt4 or a gt3/gt3rs if they are in the price range. May offer a more qv like experience.

If you want to be kicked back in your seat, may I suggest the gt350, although that may have been the result of my friend not being an experienced manual driver lol
 

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Hi,

Some of you may know me on this forum from the continued cold start misfire issues I’ve been having with my 2019 Quadrifoglio. As a result, I’ve started casually browsing other brands in case I need to get out of this car.

I had my sights set on a Porsche 992 911 C4S until I test drove one today. I left feeling very surprised, and somewhat frustrated by my disappointment in what is supposed to be one of the most coveted driver’s cars in the world. I left preferring my QV.

Below are some first impressions - I’ve been trying to piece together data (dyno curves, gear ratios, etc.) that might explain my experience, but I’ve not been successful. I’d appreciate any input from folks who have owned or driven both.

First Impressions:

  • 911 feels like precision machine more than a car, more “put together” than the QV, less eventful overall
  • 911 feels way heavier than the QV, even though it’s not
  • 911 has surgical, but heavier steering than QV
  • 911 has stiffer suspension, zero body roll, completely glued to the road vs. the QV which sometimes likes to dance about
  • Shifts on a 911 felt like non-events; could barely perceive they were happening vs. the QV which bucks when you shift it
  • 911 torque in lower RPMs felt less powerful than QV - this was probably the most surprising to me. I had to get the 911 up to higher revs to make it exciting
  • The QV feels “zippier.” I had to make the 911 travel through more of its rev range in a given gear to achieve the same feeling of acceleration I get from the QV. 911 acceleration feels noticeably faster than the QV when doing this, but I also end up reaching higher speeds, which I don’t want to do
  • The 911 exhaust feels more like screaming/wailing, while the QV has a deeper/raspier tone and gear shifts that are just way more appealing to me. 911 beats QV in the “pops and crackles” dimension

So there you have it. I went in convinced the 911 would blow the QV out of the water in every way. But I left confused that I preferred my unreliable but incredibly exciting by comparison QV.

What gives? Am I stuck with her forever?
Not a huge surprise, you drove a setup with ~same power/weight ratio as the QV.

The "non-event" shifts are because PDK and DCT are so fast it's almost like the gear change didn't happen..engine doesn't come off-boost etc.

The wail part is definitely subjective. One big gripe of mine with the QV is it won't wail at all. It's really difficult to shift by ear because at redline it has the pitch of another car @ 3K rpms.

German engineers seem to like thick steering wheels and heavy steering. I wish they'd adopt the Giulia strategy, it's so much better.
 

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I haven't driven a new Porsche (other than a test drive in the Taycan) since 2014. But even then I felt bored by the Porsche. I think it's to do with the steering weight most of all. I love the liveliness of the Giulia rack. Other cars that do it for me are all "low class" like a GTI or an Elise. I'm quite sure that Alfa Philly is correct that on a track it would be a different ball game, but on the street at road speeds a 2.0 Giulia is pretty much everything I need. Where it is lacking is in the sound department and you have that covered with your QV. Maybe you should be looking at a Ferrari? Or a Lotus Evora? But now I'm not solving you're reliability concern at all...
 

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You need to drive a GT3. I had a 997.2 for five years. Just as fantastic to drive as the QV and probably better to be honest. The market on the 991.2 is straight crazy right now but if it ever comes down to Earth, that's probably my QV replacement.

The Carreras and Turbos are boring (but capable) cars designed for 95% of consumers.
 

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I used to feel the same as you. A new 911 was the pinnacle of cars for me. Until I drove one...Modern 911s are so clinical these days. It's like the Germans had a checklist of things it should do and once they had everything checked off, they shipped it. We don't drive cars from checklists lol It was so good at everything that you don't even have to work as a driver. They lack a lot of the personality the older models had.

Now, a GT3 (or any GT car) is a completely different animal. Just not in my budget, unfortunately. And even if it were, it would certainly not replace my QV.
 

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I think your observations are spot on. With exception of the 911 Turbo, every Porsche I've ever driven didn't "feel" very fast. If you looked at the speedo, it was obviously a fast car, but it just didn't feel like it. I attribute that to the high RPM needed to extract the torque. Great race car, slightly boring city car.

In addition - I feel that Porsche is WWAAAAAYYYY over priced. Like seriously. I know it's blasphemy, but I really liken the Porsche experience to BMW or Merc, not the price point of the major cars. I've driven a 458 Italia and a 991 Turbo S. The Turbo S was obviously much faster - but for a price point that was 90% of the cost of the 458 in the pre-owned market - it was a no brainer that the car I'd want was the Ferrari.

I see 2009-2012 911's selling for mid 50K range. In my mind, that is just absurd. The fact that a 2017-2018 Alfa QV is nearly HALF the cost of a comparable year and miles 911 is just ridiculous to me.

Just my 2cents. I am obviously in the minority, but it's just the way I feel. I'd pay maybe 10% more for a 911 over a BMW M Car. Not nearly double, which is the reality.
 

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I am or used to be a 911 junkie. I've owned and still own a few. I have yet to drive a 911 (GT3s included) that is as exciting as my QV. As long as they are in production and because it's been realiable as heck I'll only replace my QV with another QV.
 

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I am or used to be a 911 junkie. I've owned and still own a few. I have yet to drive a 911 (GT3s included) that is as exciting as my QV. As long as they are in production and because it's been realiable as heck I'll only replace my QV with another QV.
Oh I've driven GT4s too. Sweet cars but still no match for my QV. I have yet to take it to the track though but I will later this year.
 

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nice thread.
 
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Maybe a 997 would be more what you're looking for?
^^^what he said. It seems that not even Porsche is immune from the got big & bloated syndrome effecting the Germans. Yeah we ALL get that the new 992 is better from every performance metric, just like the M4/M3, the Audi RS cars & the MERC AMG. BUT they kinda lost that intangible thing....a soul. Now we ALL also know that not all the buyers of the aforementioned cars are "enthusiasts", and the "soul" driving experience is not big on their list.
Get yourself a 997 GT3 or if that is a bit raw a C4S of the same vintage....they do put a smile on your face.
 

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Try a Cayman GT4 or 718 Spyder with manual shifter if you can find one. This is a very different experience from the 911 and much more fun. GT3 price is in another league and it’s really a full on track car. 911 overall now too big and too insulated..
 

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I would hate to get rid of a collectible NRING. I've never driven a Porsche and I like them very much. I like the look, design and technology that Porsche's have but, I can't comment or compare them to a QV. I'm curious to know why you describe your NRING as an unreliable car. I already know about the incredibly exciting part and I know about the CELs in cold start that you (and I and several others) are facing some times. So, why is it an unreliable car?. Has it left you stuck somewhere?. Has it died on you while driving?. Has it been at a dealership anytime other than for the trials and errors of a very uncapable dealership for one specific subject (CELs in cold starts)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the responses everyone. Interesting to see the shared experiences.

I think a GT3 would be prone to the same need for high revs to pull power out of it, even more so than the 911.

Here’s the list of potential options based on this thread and conversations with friends:

  • 997
  • 991.2
  • G80 M3
  • Camaro Zl1 - ugly, but looks like a blast to drive
  • GT350 - high reving, may not feel as zippy as QV
  • RS5
  • something more exotic like a Lotus Evora or Ferrari (does not solve and perhaps worsens reliability issues)


Cars I’ve ruled out from past test drives:

  • C63 S - disconnected/boring steering
  • Tesla Model 3 - gobs of torque but feels more like an appliance than a car and too heavy
  • 992 - wanted to love it but not spending ~$150K on a car that doesn’t leave anything other than a thrilling first impression, which this car did not do.

And then there’s the crazy option: another QV
 
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