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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have heard from number of folks on this forum about stock QV brake system not being ready for track events (expect CF brakes). But I have not see any specific recommendations on how to prepare QV for track. I am concerned about trashing rotors and building vibration after first day. Some have mentioned that vibration is attributed to stock pads being too soft and bake dust "baking" to hot rotors. There is good selection of brake pads, but I dont know if installing racing pads is enough to prevent brake vibration from building up.

Not sure if there anything can be done with rotors, since my research showed that only OEM rotors are available at this time.



Any advice on how to properly prepare to avoid replacing rotors after one day is highly appreciated!
 

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I do not own a QV. I do own a Ti and a 4C though and I track a 240z. What little I do know of the QV brake/track issues is from reading only.

- The steel rotors and pads seem to be more robust and handle the heat better than the ceramic setup.
- There are aftermarket pad choices to fit with the steel rotors. Not sure if there are any choices with the ceramic rotors though.
- Some of the heat issues might be driver related. Certainly not all of it though.
- The real issue here is that the ceramic rotors that AR used on the QV are designed for street use, not track use.

That said, my and I did track our Ti once without issue. The track we used is easy on brakes. I only went out for one session. My wife drove all day, but, it was her first track event and she wasn't going very fast (her choice).

Street cars come with street pads. Street pads don't do well on the track. This is true for all cars, not just the QV. One of the first things to be changed is the pads.

Hmm. Your QV has a brake monitoring screen in the Infotainment Center. I think having that open might be an idea. If it shows, or the brakes feel, hot, all you have to do is slow down and use the brakes less. They will cool.
 

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I have heard from number of folks on this forum about stock QV brake system not being ready for track events (expect CF brakes). But I have not see any specific recommendations on how to prepare QV for track. I am concerned about trashing rotors and building vibration after first day. Some have mentioned that vibration is attributed to stock pads being too soft and bake dust "baking" to hot rotors. There is good selection of brake pads, but I dont know if installing racing pads is enough to prevent brake vibration from building up.

Not sure if there anything can be done with rotors, since my research showed that only OEM rotors are available at this time.



Any advice on how to properly prepare to avoid replacing rotors after one day is highly appreciated!
It depends totally on the driver and the track. When I went to LRP we had two nearly identical QV’s with the driver skill level being the only thing separating us. For me, a complete novice and first time track experience, the brakes and tires were fine (you will take a few thousand miles of wear life out of your OEM Corsa’s for sure though). The other driver was very experienced and even owns and tracks cars specifically for that purpose and he trashed his brake pads, rotors and his left front tire was destroyed on LRP because that track is all right hand turns save for one. On a longer track you might have less tire issues.

Also something I’ve been thinking about is I think he was using D mode for some reason and that might have contributed to the problem as well. In R mode it’s just you and your skills that keep the QV shiny side up on the track but in the other modes it uses the brakes quite a bit to stabilize the car and probably is going to really work overtime to keep things under control. Counterintuitively R mode is probably less hard on the car’s brake and tires but makes it harder for you!

The short of it is if you are new to the track like I was and you’re more stressed out about learning how to pass properly (you’ll probably be passing many many cars in the QV :) ), what the **** all those flags mean, how to even see flags while driving around your new car without hitting anyone else and how to hit an apex than actually making fast laps you’re not likely to even come close to the QV’s limits. If you are experienced just keep an eye after each session on the tires and pads and you’ll be OK. The car can probably track all day long at 7/10’s but when you go for 8-9-10 you’ll be wearing rubber pads and rotors...

Also keep an eye on the gas. You’ll be using gas like you’re setting fire to fresh crisp 20’s out there. I almost ran out of gas because I was shocked how fast the gauge plummeted and the QV supposedly really really should be run dry!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
- Some of the heat issues might be driver related. Certainly not all of it though.

I hear that inexperienced people brake lot more, but softer, same as you would driving on street, and experience are using them "hard" and have more time between brakes to cool off. So agree, driver must be a big part of it :)


Hmm. Your QV has a brake monitoring screen in the Infotainment Center. I think having that open might be an idea. If it shows, or the brakes feel, hot, all you have to do is slow down and use the brakes less. They will cool.

My QV has only tire pressure status, did not see anything related to brakes. I could not find any reference to brake monitoring. Do you have more details on this?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Also something I’ve been thinking about is I think he was using D mode for some reason and that might have contributed to the problem as well.

Jerry,
Thank you for these tips, very much appreciated! Have you been using R mode when you drove? Did you drive on stock brake pads? What about the other guy? As for tires, I already changed slippers to Michelin Sport 4s. They should last quite a bit longer than Pirellis.
 

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Jerry,
Thank you for these tips, very much appreciated! Have you been using R mode when you drove? Did you drive on stock brake pads? What about the other guy? As for tires, I already changed slippers to Michelin Sport 4s. They should last quite a bit longer than Pirellis.
I used D as well. I wasn’t really pushing the car super hard so I figured D mode was fine. My car is bone stock, didn’t change pads or tires. Drove to and from the track with the car how I drive it everyday. All that’s not to say I wasn’t driving the car fast, I floored it on the straight sections and broke hard on those areas but didn’t really push more than 7/10’s in the more challenging twisty areas so I wasn’t brutal on the brakes and tires at every point around the track.

The other guy used standard tires and brakes as well I believe but he drove it like a rental car lol.
 

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It depends totally on the driver and the track. When I went to LRP we had two nearly identical QV’s with the driver skill level being the only thing separating us. For me, a complete novice and first time track experience, the brakes and tires were fine (you will take a few thousand miles of wear life out of your OEM Corsa’s for sure though). The other driver was very experienced and even owns and tracks cars specifically for that purpose and he trashed his brake pads, rotors and his left front tire was destroyed on LRP because that track is all right hand turns save for one. On a longer track you might have less tire issues.

Also something I’ve been thinking about is I think he was using D mode for some reason and that might have contributed to the problem as well. In R mode it’s just you and your skills that keep the QV shiny side up on the track but in the other modes it uses the brakes quite a bit to stabilize the car and probably is going to really work overtime to keep things under control. Counterintuitively R mode is probably less hard on the car’s brake and tires but makes it harder for you!
Jerry I need to correct you on the fact that I was in R mode the entire time (60 minute total)

If I were in D mode it probably would have only lasted one session (20 minutes) for the reasons you mention.......

R mode is only advisable for experienced drivers as there are no nannies to save you.....

OP, If you are new at track driving, don't worry about anything, the QV is more than capable of your abilities..... just go out there in D mode and enjoy.....

Good luck!
 
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The other guy used standard tires and brakes as well I believe but he drove it like a rental car lol.
That is the difference between beginners and experienced drivers.....:grin2:
 

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Jerry I need to correct you on the fact that I was in R mode the entire time (60 minute total)

If I were in D mode it probably would have only lasted one session (20 minutes) for the reasons you mention.......

R mode is only advisable for experienced drivers as there are no nannies to save you.....

OP, If you are new at track driving, don't worry about anything, the QV is more than capable of your abilities..... just go out there in D mode and enjoy.....

Good luck!
My bad for some reason I thought you decided to use D for some of your time there which didn’t make sense. Must have been thinking of someone else.
 

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I did an HPDE in my QV with stock steel brakes and they were just fine. Kept it in D all day, I'm a track beginner and didn't want to crash very bad. If you're a beginner, it'll do fine. If you're a more experienced track driver, you'd want to look into some upgrades.
 

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- Some of the heat issues might be driver related. Certainly not all of it though.
I hear that inexperienced people brake lot more, but softer, same as you would driving on street, and experience are using them "hard" and have more time between brakes to cool off. So agree, driver must be a big part of it :)
Well, each driver is different. When I first starting to track cars, I was braking for every turn, and over-braking for each turn. Now that I have nearly a decade of track experience, I find that I'm not braking for a lot of turns, and I'm not braking as hard for the turns. Yes, my lap times are hugely better, but so is my everything else.



Hmm. Your QV has a brake monitoring screen in the Infotainment Center. I think having that open might be an idea. If it shows, or the brakes feel, hot, all you have to do is slow down and use the brakes less. They will cool.
My QV has only tire pressure status, did not see anything related to brakes. I could not find any reference to brake monitoring. Do you have more details on this?
No, actually I don't. Perhaps this is only available in race mode? You can press the button on the end of the wiper stalk to cycle through dash menus.

I guy I know, bought a QV when we bought our Ti. He also bought a 4C when I bought my 4C. Shortly after we both took delivery of our Giulias, I bumped into him at the dealer. He had already modded his weeks old Quad and was showing me (I saw it) the display for the ceramic brake heat. He said he leaves that screen on all the time. This was an early 2017 Quad that he special ordered. He also has connections very high up the food chain, so it's possible he has 'things' that aren't available us mere mortals.

Hmm, perhaps this is only available with the ceramic brake package?
 

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I'm still fairly novice but I'm now pushing the car into the 85% area and I'm on my third set of front brake pads and second rear pads. And I'm on my second set of tires (using a harder tire now, Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 -- slower lap times, but so far holding up better after a few track days).

With the OEM pads, I overcooked them and left deposits on the front rotors. I'm now running EBC Bluestuff track pads up front (OEM rear) and while they haven't overheated, they were beyond 50% used up after one track day. I'm having G-LOC make laser cut pads but don't have those yet, so I'm still running another set of EBC Bluestuff.

If my driving was smoother, carrying more speed in the corners, I might not use the brakes quite so bad. I'm working on it.

As others have mentioned, if you drive at 7/10 the QV can probably do that all day without too much wear (except the tires will still wear, but not quite as fast). If you push beyond that, you could trash the brake pads pretty fast and even the rotors as I did. With track pads you are less likely to trash the rotors, or over cook the pads, but the pads might wear out quickly.

What track are you driving?

I'll repeat some advice from experience with this car on track that I've posted in other threads:

1. Keep the tank 1/2 full or more to avoid throwing codes
2. Disable collision avoidance if you're using D-mode (you have to re-disable it each time you start the car). You'll want it off so it won't trigger when you're catching those BMWs into the braking zone
3. When you're ready to try RACE mode, first make sure you're not triggering traction control and ABS in D-mode and then start by driving SLOWER first and get a feel for it. Be smooth on throttle transitions out of corners.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thank you everyone for suggestions and advice!
While I am a novice, I will probably try to push myself and car, so better to be safe than sorry. I will get performance brake pads, assuming that they are not very different to replace than other cars. Hope no ECU code reset is required.

I really want to learn in R mode, but not sure my HPDE instructor will agree, especially on my first day :)
 

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I'm still fairly novice but I'm now pushing the car into the 85% area and I'm on my third set of front brake pads and second rear pads. And I'm on my second set of tires (using a harder tire now, Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 -- slower lap times, but so far holding up better after a few track days).

With the OEM pads, I overcooked them and left deposits on the front rotors. I'm now running EBC Bluestuff track pads up front (OEM rear) and while they haven't overheated, they were beyond 50% used up after one track day. I'm having G-LOC make laser cut pads but don't have those yet, so I'm still running another set of EBC Bluestuff.

If my driving was smoother, carrying more speed in the corners, I might not use the brakes quite so bad. I'm working on it.

As others have mentioned, if you drive at 7/10 the QV can probably do that all day without too much wear (except the tires will still wear, but not quite as fast). If you push beyond that, you could trash the brake pads pretty fast and even the rotors as I did. With track pads you are less likely to trash the rotors, or over cook the pads, but the pads might wear out quickly.

What track are you driving?

I'll repeat some advice from experience with this car on track that I've posted in other threads:

1. Keep the tank 1/2 full or more to avoid throwing codes
2. Disable collision avoidance if you're using D-mode (you have to re-disable it each time you start the car). You'll want it off so it won't trigger when you're catching those BMWs into the braking zone
3. When you're ready to try RACE mode, first make sure you're not triggering traction control and ABS in D-mode and then start by driving SLOWER first and get a feel for it. Be smooth on throttle transitions out of corners.
Me, Willow Springs and Buttonwillow mostly. Those are the two closest tracks to me. I've got a track date at Laguna Seca 20-21 October 2018 with my 240z. 15-16 September 2018 my wife will be doing a two day driving school at Streets of Willow in our Giulia. I'm her pit crew.
 

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Was it causing vibrations? If so, how did you fixed that?
I have overcooked my brakes (race car, not street car). This has left deposits (pad material) on the rotors. It vibrates and shakes as if the rotors are warped. I've simply sanded the deposits off the rotors while still attached to the car. The rotors have been just fine afterwards.

The pads at this point are baked. I've taken them off the car to inspect and/or clean. Usually they are cracked and/or have chunks missing. Usually they look like a half burnt log from a camp fire with lots of grey ash. At this point, the pads are done and need to be replaced.

Sometimes they (the pads) are just glazed over. The glazing is actually the glue overheating and seeping to the surface to be polished smooth and harden as it cools. The glaze can be sanded off.

The crux of the above problem (single problem with many signs) is that they have been over heated only because they were not designed to run at these hot temperatures. There are two common solutions:

1) add cool air vents to help cool the rotors and pads
2) install expensive pads designed to run at these high temperatures

Most racers end up doing both 1 and 2. Better pads is the better first thing to do.

Now, track pads can't be safely used on the street, just as street pads can't be safely used on the track. Track pads don't work well until they're up to temperature, for street use, they're never up to temp and will ruin your rotors if used as street pads. This means swapping pads before and after a track day.

I know this first hand because I've tried using street pads on the track. My $20 pads didn't last a day. After several attempts with street-sport pads (better, but not good enough), I finally ponied up and dropped $300 on a set of pads. Heat problems gone, pads lasted quite a long time on the track. But, my 240z is a dedicated racer and not street legal. So, I don't need to swap brakes and tires before and after each track event.
 

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Was it causing vibrations? If so, how did you fixed that?
Yes, vibration was pretty bad. The fix in my case was track pads (EBC Bluestuff) and using the brakes and letting the pads clean off the rotors. One track day cleaned up the rotors and removed almost all the vibration. But also used up a good percent of the pads, over 50%.

I had a lot of mixed input on "lightly sanding" or otherwise. Some people suggested various kinds of grinding, but no shop was willing to even consider it on the QV, including Pro-cut on-car brake lathe nor Blanchard grinding.
 

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Not sure if you have seen my prior emails on this. Having run through a full set of front pads, tyres and thermally stress cracked the front rotors on a 3 week from new Giulia QV at the race track (advanced) we decided the car is not suited to this application (at any more than an occasional track day for a beginner etc. Our video is on Youtube and has been posted and discussed on other threads here. We did experiment a second day with a more track orientated pad but results were largely the same. The car is very quick but the brake system (steel) does not wear well on the track and even the PCCB has proven via "Call me Al" to run a set of carbon rotors in less than 10 days and a set of ceramic rotor pads ($1500) in less than three. he has had a race shop build a very nice cooling system too but no dice. Finally got to the bottom of this last week when a close friend who works for a supplier to OEM was havig lunch with an engineer at Continental who designed the T1 brake by wire system. For this application (Giulia) the system was designed for road not track and will over torque the rotor due to the way the system is calibrated. It will shave 2-3m from 100 kmph emergency braking on the road but the flip side is it will not give any endurance on the track. His opinion was that a track pad will only mildly extend the life of teh rotor and pad but not solve the issue...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Macca, mrblog, Racer Z,

Thank you for your input, guys, this is really grate stuff! Based on your feedback, I am coming to conclusion that QV can be taken to a track if you are ready to pay for new rotors/pads after a day on track. They likely going to be fine if driving/braking lightly and "for fun" rather then pushing the limits. Set of race pads might help, but not guaranteed to prevent problems due to brake-by-wide design tailored for street use rather than track use.
I never tracked before, and seems like QV is not the right car to get into it.
 
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