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To be fair, it just comes down to how I personally make decisions. It's not about my ability to afford it, goodness knows my business has blessed me financially but it's the fact that if the additives are within the SP API Spec, and the viscosity is not an issue for where I live, then why would I spend double on the oil, that's really what it comes down to. I teach my 10 year old that success is all about living by making optimal decisions, so I have to lead by example, and that's all it really comes down to. For better or worse I'm almost (yes there is room for changing my mind) 100% satisfied with the decision. The only reason I hesitate, and only slightly is the fact that Amsoil does recommend the signiture series 0W30, and not the OE, but if they're both API SP, I'm just not that worried. Also, I don't want to get into analysis paralysism... guess I'm already kind of there.
I am just asking what you are trying to gain. If you trust the Amsoil rep and there is no measurable difference between 0W-30 and 5W-30 in temps above sub-freezing then there would be nothing to gain by using it, unless of course if it's cheaper.

The risk is (however small it is) that if you are under warranty and something goes wrong internally in your engine or Multiair module (that does happen) and the service department asks you to prove you've maintained the engine...how are they going to respond when you produce receipts from an oil that is both an incorrect weight and that does not have the required certifications?
 

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The manual notes the API SN as a "Feature". It is not a Spec. That is listed in the next column....

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Ah you fell prey to the well known amsoil questionable advertising practices.

Actually if you read it, it says Amsoil themselves recommends you use it in applications that require those certifications.

It says nothing about their oil actually being certified and youll see no required api donuts on the bottle because they dont submit for certification.

This... Amsoil for decades now is thriving off of deceptive advertising practices and refusing to actually prove the quality of their products beyond some crackpot internal testing.
 

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How is "valves actuation is still controlled by the camshaft's position"
Go back and read your own post, pictures, and video about how Multi air works. The Intake valves are actuated by the cam lobes, they put pressure on the actuators which open and close the valves, the amount the valve opens and closes is controlled by the hydraulic pressure controlled by the multi-air system. I mean there are literally pictures of it in there.
 

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To be fair, it just comes down to how I personally make decisions. It's not about my ability to afford it, goodness knows my business has blessed me financially but it's the fact that if the additives are within the SP API Spec, and the viscosity is not an issue for where I live, then why would I spend double on the oil, that's really what it comes down to. I teach my 10 year old that success is all about living by making optimal decisions, so I have to lead by example, and that's all it really comes down to. For better or worse I'm almost (yes there is room for changing my mind) 100% satisfied with the decision. The only reason I hesitate, and only slightly is the fact that Amsoil does recommend the signiture series 0W30, and not the OE, but if they're both API SP, I'm just not that worried. Also, I don't want to get into analysis paralysism... guess I'm already kind of there.
Just realize you are going out of your way to rationalize using an oil amsoil and alfa romeo don't recommend for your car there by using an oil that will not be covered by either the alfa warranty or Amsoil when you can get an oil that is a high quality oil that is in spec for 5 bucks a quart (m1), 6 bucks a quart (Pennzoil) or 9 bucks a quart (mopar).
 

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Go back and read your own post, pictures, and video about how Multi air works. The Intake valves are actuated by the cam lobes, they put pressure on the actuators which open and close the valves, the amount the valve opens and closes is controlled by the hydraulic pressure controlled by the multi-air system. I mean there are literally pictures of it in there.
You are not understanding Multiair.

The intake cams lobes operate individual hydraulic "multiair pump heads" that pressurize a hydraulic accumulator for each cylinder. The "multiair solenoid" for each cylinder opens the oil passage from the accumulator to the intake valves thus controlling timing, duration, and lift.

It's also capable of opening and closing the valve 2x in 1 intake stroke. That's not possible with your understanding.

A failed solenoid valve results in the intake valves not opening. That's also not possible with your understanding.
 

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You are not understanding Multiair.

The intake cams lobes operate individual hydraulic "multiair pump heads" that pressurize a hydraulic accumulator for each cylinder. The "multiair solenoid" for each cylinder opens the oil passage from the accumulator to the intake valves thus controlling timing, duration, and lift.

It's also capable of opening and closing the valve 2x in 1 intake stroke. That's not possible with your understanding.

A failed solenoid valve results in the intake valves not opening. That's also not possible with your understanding.
No, I'm not sure why you keep fighting me on this but you are not understanding multiair and just putting words into my mouth.

The accumulator will not be pressurized without the cam lobe pressurizing it, you literally just said that yourself. And hence the valve will not operate. If the timing chain fails the valve will not open, there will be nothing to pressurize it. However if the timing chain fails the exhaust valve will still operate and be stuck in some position, also if the timing chain fails the cam may or may not stay in the pressurize position against the accumulator, so there is a definite chance of an exhaust valve remaining open and a possible chance of an intake valve remaining open. The intake valves do not open and close on their own, the cam lobe is part of the mechanical equation, period. You can dance around it all you want but you are not understanding how it works. Even if it opens the valve twice (which would be very quickly in succession) its the pressurization of the accumulator by the cam that is allowing that operation. The intake valve only opens (even twice) at one point in the stroke, not multiple times, as in any gas engine.

You said the wrong oil viscosity can cause this. It cannot. A timing chain failure can, this happens all the time in interference engines (usually ones with belts not chains). The valve may slow or stick a bit due to the wrong viscosity but nowhere near open enough or long enough for there to be piston to valve contact.
 

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This is all based on the premise that 5W is going to be too thick, but I thought many contributors have already confirmed that unless you are operating in severely cold weather, the oil is going to have the same Winter viscosity as shown on this chart, hence the affect of warmer climate (i.e. Calfifornia which is why I started this to start with) will have a much greater affect on viscosity than the 5W "thicker" oil (but I say "thicker" in the slightest sense possible). I would bet the your 0W30 in New York is THICKER than my 5W30 here in California when we both jump into our cars this morning to go to work at say 7AM (I'll be at 60 degrees and you'll be at 35). And this doesn't even cover the possible varience between oil manufacturers that can factor into it. It's like you haven't read any of the posts. You're not considering all the input:
View attachment 108307
I am sorry, but there is nothing about the viscosity in this graph.
 

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The w is winter weight. It is cold pumping at negative 35 degrees. A 5w30 and 0w30 is identical down to negative 22c.

Interesting fact.

Pennzoil Euro LX 0w30 is actually thicker (lower pumpability) than pennzoil platinum 5w30 at BOTH 40c and 100c. So yeah, viscosity changrs over temperatures are not perfectly linear.

View attachment 108251



View attachment 108256

That said, the very important thing is to use the correct oil specification. This is the additive package the manufacturer wants you to use.

Thats SN Plus or equivalent which is API SP, ilsac gf6 or ACEA C6.

If you see freezing temps use the 0w30 too not the 5w30

Yes you're technically right that in southern California your car would have no idea if a 5w30 or 0w30 was in it
You would want the oil to be relative thick when warm, and thin when cold. This is not how the oil is by nature. So it is more complicated to make a 0W30 oil than a 5W30 oil. This is why the 0W30 oil is more expensive.

Even though you maybe can use a 5W30 oil in a warm climate, then it is still not as good as a 0W30 oil when cold. And as stated, the 0W30 oil is thicker when warm, which is good thing if you are in a warm climate.

So do you want to safe money, or be really good to your Guilia?
 

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No, I'm not sure why you keep fighting me on this but you are not understanding multiair and just putting words into my mouth.

The accumulator will not be pressurized without the cam lobe pressurizing it, you literally just said that yourself. And hence the valve will not operate. If the timing chain fails the valve will not open, there will be nothing to pressurize it. However if the timing chain fails the exhaust valve will still operate and be stuck in some position, also if the timing chain fails the cam may or may not stay in the pressurize position against the accumulator, so there is a definite chance of an exhaust valve remaining open and a possible chance of an intake valve remaining open. The intake valves do not open and close on their own, the cam lobe is part of the mechanical equation, period. You can dance around it all you want but you are not understanding how it works. Even if it opens the valve twice (which would be very quickly in succession) its the pressurization of the accumulator by the cam that is allowing that operation. The intake valve only opens (even twice) at one point in the stroke, not multiple times, as in any gas engine.

You said the wrong oil viscosity can cause this. It cannot. A timing chain failure can, this happens all the time in interference engines (usually ones with belts not chains). The valve may slow or stick a bit due to the wrong viscosity but nowhere near open enough or long enough for there to be piston to valve contact.
The cam is used for an oil pump. If multiair was capable of operating on the exhaust valves, no cams would be needed and instead an external oil pump could be used. The valve is actuated independent of the camshaft.

The intake valves on multiair is the equivalent of a freevalve engine. Both have valves actuated by solenoids commanded by the PCM. In multiair it is hydraulic. In free valve it is pneumatic which is fed from air compressor. Saying a multiair intake valve is actuated by the camshaft would be saying a freevalve engine valve is actuated by an air compressor and not the solenoids.
 

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You would want the oil to be relative thick when warm, and thin when cold. This is not how the oil is by nature. So it is more complicated to make a 0W30 oil than a 5W30 oil. This is why the 0W30 oil is more expensive.

Even though you maybe can use a 5W30 oil in a warm climate, then it is still not as good as a 0W30 oil when cold. And as stated, the 0W30 oil is thicker when warm, which is good thing if you are in a warm climate.

So do you want to safe money, or be really good to your Guilia?
A 0w30 and 5w30 are the same viscosity above negative 22 degrees. So no, a 0w30 is not always thicker when warm. I only used that as an example of varances between ALL oils within the same specification.

0w30 and 5w30 performs within the SAE j 300 viscosity range for all 30 weight oils at 100c. Some 0w30 will be slightly thicker, some slightly thinner.

That holds true at 40 degrees too. Some 5w30 will be thinner than 0w30 at 40 degrees, some thicker.... But all will be within the same viscosity spec.

The 5w performs differently at mrv testing. Otherwise not. So if you live in a very cold place, absolutely use the 0w. Although very minimal at negative 35 degrees it still does have some better pumpability. At 0 degrees, 40 degrees, 100 degrees...its the same.
 

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The cam is used for an oil pump. If multiair was capable of operating on the exhaust valves, no cams would be needed and instead an external oil pump could be used. The valve is actuated independent of the camshaft.

The intake valves on multiair is the equivalent of a freevalve engine. Both have valves actuated by solenoids commanded by the PCM. In multiair it is hydraulic. In free valve it is pneumatic which is fed from air compressor. Saying a multiair intake valve is actuated by the camshaft would be saying a freevalve engine valve is actuated by an air compressor and not the solenoids.
OH MY GOD

If the cam was not there then how would the valve operate? Tell me. Magic? If the cam was not there then there would be nothing to pressurize the actuator. The cam is not turning and pressing for its health. It is doing that based on the ignition cycle. Which is controlled by... shocker.... the timing chain.

And again, all of this was against your assertion that somehow the wrong oil viscosity would cause the valve to stick open.
 

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Always compare viscosity of same product line, in the case of Pennzoil

Platinum EURO line

Euro 5W-30 cSt @40 C: 71.7
Euro LX 0W-30 cSt @40 C: 58.7

So yes it diverges even at 40 C

BTW- I'm not seeing EURO LX 0W-30 meeting SN PLUS, just up to SN? Shrugs...

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OH MY GOD

If the cam was not there then how would the valve operate? Tell me. Magic? If the cam was not there then there would be nothing to pressurize the actuator. The cam is not turning and pressing for its health. It is doing that based on the ignition cycle. Which is controlled by... shocker.... the timing chain.

And again, all of this was against your assertion that somehow the wrong oil viscosity would cause the valve to stick open.

The cam exists for the exhaust valves. Had FCA not had issues with heat from the exhaust valves coking the oil in multiair actuators, the engine would be camless with external oil pumps... Because drumroll please.... Multiair is not dependant on a camshaft, it's dependant on pressurized oil like freevalve needs pressurized air.
 

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The cam exists for the exhaust valves. Had FCA not had issues with heat from the exhaust valves coking the oil in multiair actuators, the engine would be camless with external oil pumps... Because drumroll please.... Multiair is not dependant on a camshaft, it's dependant on pressurized oil like freevalve needs pressurized air.
Just stop already. The engine would be cam-less, except its not, because the cam drives the system. This link explains the same thing your prior images showed.


Your own images and video dispute what you are saying. You do not know what you're talking about. I'm done.
 

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Discussion Starter #97
We have 2 threads going on at once. The oil thread and the cam thread... To the person not comfortable trusting AMSOIL oil, I do because I say many videos on Youtube attesting to the fact that it's the best in terms of evaporation and lubricity. Wondering what everyone here thinks of these Oil face off competitiongs he does, kind of like the playoffs in sports. AMSOIL and Penzoil made the finals. He tested the 5W30, and what impressed me the most was the lubricity test which is close by AMSOIL was better.

Re: the question ... is 0W30 and 5W30 the same > say 20-30 degrees ? , the guy from Project Farm seems to be up to the challenge. I suggested he test at least one brand's 0W30 vs its 5W30 at different tempratures for viscosity to put a video together that shows if there is indeed a difference, and he thought it was a great idea. I expect that video to be uploaded soon.

I agree that if there's even a slight difference above 20-30 degrees, the extra money for the 0W30 is well worth it, and the only reason I'm so far going with 5W30 is because all the evidence points in the direction that there is no differnce in warmer climates. But all this is theory and 3rd party references until you actually see different viscosity oils from the same and competing brands flowing down a channel side by side.
 

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We have 2 threads going on at once. The oil thread and the cam thread... To the person not comfortable trusting AMSOIL oil, I do because I say many videos on Youtube attesting to the fact that it's the best in terms of evaporation and lubricity. Wondering what everyone here thinks of these Oil face off competitiongs he does, kind of like the playoffs in sports. AMSOIL and Penzoil made the finals. He tested the 5W30, and what impressed me the most was the lubricity test which is close by AMSOIL was better.

Re: the question ... is 0W30 and 5W30 the same > say 20-30 degrees ? , the guy from Project Farm seems to be up to the challenge. I suggested he test at least one brand's 0W30 vs its 5W30 at different tempratures for viscosity to put a video together that shows if there is indeed a difference, and he thought it was a great idea. I expect that video to be uploaded soon.

I agree that if there's even a slight difference above 20-30 degrees, the extra money for the 0W30 is well worth it, and the only reason I'm so far going with 5W30 is because all the evidence points in the direction that there is no differnce in warmer climates. But all this is theory and 3rd party references until you actually see different viscosity oils from the same and competing brands flowing down a channel side by side.
Has nothing to do with trusting Amsoil regarding wear.

He did no lspi test in the video.

Regardless it has to do with people wanting to retain their warranty which you can with a 5 dollar a quart oil that meets spec.

You don't have to do a test on 5w30 vs 0w30, the SAE does that for you when they classify oil viscosity. 0w30 and 5w30 must meet all the same test ranges except mrv at negative 35c and negative 40c temps. Otherwise they must perform in identical ranges.
 

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We have 2 threads going on at once. The oil thread and the cam thread... To the person not comfortable trusting AMSOIL oil, I do because I say many videos on Youtube attesting to the fact that it's the best in terms of evaporation and lubricity. Wondering what everyone here thinks of these Oil face off competitiongs he does, kind of like the playoffs in sports. AMSOIL and Penzoil made the finals. He tested the 5W30, and what impressed me the most was the lubricity test which is close by AMSOIL was better.

Re: the question ... is 0W30 and 5W30 the same > say 20-30 degrees ? , the guy from Project Farm seems to be up to the challenge. I suggested he test at least one brand's 0W30 vs its 5W30 at different tempratures for viscosity to put a video together that shows if there is indeed a difference, and he thought it was a great idea. I expect that video to be uploaded soon.

I agree that if there's even a slight difference above 20-30 degrees, the extra money for the 0W30 is well worth it, and the only reason I'm so far going with 5W30 is because all the evidence points in the direction that there is no differnce in warmer climates. But all this is theory and 3rd party references until you actually see different viscosity oils from the same and competing brands flowing down a channel side by side.
Use whatever oil you want, AMSOIL, Vegetable, Olive. Just stop the useless posts, you’re changing nobody’s opinion.
 
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Discussion Starter #100
Change the channel if you don't like the program.. nobody's forcing you to read it or participate. I thought this thread was done days ago, but it appears people keep wanting to post against it.
 
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