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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just returned from a 2 weeks vacation on the eastern side of Italy (Marche and Abruzzo regions). These are my unscientific observations and opinions on the state of the Italian motor industry. First the good news, I saw a lot of Stelvio and I mean a lot. It is becoming very popular, I would say that 90% were diesels. Giulia not so much, I think I may have seen 6 the all time. The biggest surprise and a shocker to me, was the complete lack of Fiats. They were incredibly rare. The occasional 500, Panda and the now aging 500L. I did see one Jeep re-badge Fiat Freemont. This is shocking considering that not 20 years ago Fiat products dominated the landscape. They have no new product, no updated line, nothing. On the other hand, other than the usual German dominance, I noticed a lot of Peugeot and Renault, offering quite a number of new and very attractive SUV and cars. I was leery of the merger with Peugeot then but now I hope they will breathe a new life in Fiat as they need it. Finally, I also noticed that both Hyundai and Kia are making some inroads, very popular.
 

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500e’s primarily in cities?

A 124 Spider, sadly orphaned, would be fun on roads in those regions.
 
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Can't find the 2021 and 2022 YTD data but, I assume the trend is the same, including the freaking Covid-19 global factor in 2021.

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
One clarification. I have seen a lot Fiat panel van type. Not sure what they are called but they are the type of van used by trade people. They go by the name of Fiorino, Ducato and Talento. We had a Talento 9 passenger van that drove around and that was an horrible vehicle. We thought for sure it was going to self destroy any minute from all the rattles.
 

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I went to London, Geneva, Nice, and Barcelona right before the pandemic. I can't recall seeing a single Alfa in any of those cities. Just a bunch of little hatchback VW/Citroen/Peugeot/Renaults. The occasional Fiat and Audi A1 as well. Overall, it seems the luxury cars we see so commonly in the US are rare there. Europeans seem to have less disposable income than us, and car ownership is disincentivized with high taxes and gas prices. With the amazing walkability and public transport of their cities, why waste money on a luxury car?
 

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With the amazing walkability and public transport of their cities, why waste money on a luxury car?
This is bang on! Public transportation in Europe, or most of it, is very amazing compared to North America. Also, spaces are smaller, land lots are smaller, most people don't have a 2-3+ car garage, and yea, the cost of owning a higher end car just doesn't make any sense there. They do have some great models though that we never see on this side of the pond, such as the GTAm!!
 

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This is bang on! Public transportation in Europe, or most of it, is very amazing compared to North America. Also, spaces are smaller, land lots are smaller, most people don't have a 2-3+ car garage, and yea, the cost of owning a higher end car just doesn't make any sense there. They do have some great models though that we never see on this side of the pond, such as the GTAm!!
It's funny cause I always felt like Europe was THE best place to be a car enthusiast. But the more I've vacationed there and seen their way of life, the more I've found that we have it way better here.

On the flip side, we get endless suburban sprawl, lack of transit infrastructure, not enough walkability, traffic out the ass etc.
 

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OT but two words: Bridgeport California.

If I can't have a car I can get a ride on the county bus (yes, one bus for the whole county, and that is really a big van) or get a horse.

High density living is not for me.
 

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I went to London, Geneva, Nice, and Barcelona right before the pandemic. I can't recall seeing a single Alfa in any of those cities. Just a bunch of little hatchback VW/Citroen/Peugeot/Renaults. The occasional Fiat and Audi A1 as well. Overall, it seems the luxury cars we see so commonly in the US are rare there. Europeans seem to have less disposable income than us, and car ownership is disincentivized with high taxes and gas prices. With the amazing walkability and public transport of their cities, why waste money on a luxury car?
Geneva was chock-full of luxury cars, including one that looked familiar.
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Milan was also pretty good.
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When we were in Italy back in 2006, there were a lot of old 500s, some cool looking Lancia’s, a lot of little Nissan’s that looked like 500s and a ton of Smartcars.
 

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Geneva was chock-full of luxury cars, including one that looked familiar
Now that you mention it, I do recall a lot of luxury vehicles around one of the fancy hotels in Geneva. The first G29 Z4 I ever saw was there. But the rest of the city was nothing special.

Lot of Range Rovers and Rollers in London now that I think about it.
 

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So Fiats are "exotic" in Italy now?
I do not agree.

Fiat sell less (I am from Italy), but it is due to the fact that FIAT doesn't have a lot of models.
500 and panda sell A LOT, they are on top of the most sold model every months. But they are the only models in production, basically. The tipo is quite shitty. Then there is nothing.

The Punto is not sold anymore since 2 or 3 years ago (and it used to sell a lot)
 

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Now that you mention it, I do recall a lot of luxury vehicles around one of the fancy hotels in Geneva. The first G29 Z4 I ever saw was there. But the rest of the city was nothing special.

Lot of Range Rovers and Rollers in London now that I think about it.
That was very much the case outside our hotel (which I didn't consider to be particularly fancy). I didn't photograph there, because many of the cars were being minded by drivers/bodyguards.

Can't swing a dead cat without hitting a tasty car around Monte Carlo's Casino Square.
I do not agree.

Fiat sell less (I am from Italy), but it is due to the fact that FIAT doesn't have a lot of models.
500 and panda sell A LOT, they are on top of the most sold model every months. But they are the only models in production, basically. The tipo is quite shitty. Then there is nothing.

The Punto is not sold anymore since 2 or 3 years ago (and it used to sell a lot)
Fiat seems to be making a big push with trucks and SUVs in South America. Sad that its home market isn't receiving as much attention.
 

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My wife and I were in Rome and Naples about two months ago, and actually saw a decent number of Fiats. Even took a taxi that was a Panda while in Rome. On a slightly unrelated noted, while in Rome we also came across this Giulia and Stelvio that were proudly serving as police cars. (I'm using "police" very generically, as I realize Italy has several different departments that, I, as an American, would all consider to be police, and am not sure which these were).

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Sedans are rare in Europe. Everyone wants a hatch.
True, and Americans avoid small car hatches like the plague, unless they're CUVs, which makes little/no sense. The Golf still sells over 500,000 a year in Europe, while all but the GTI and R models were cancelled in the US this year. What's also interesting is that the Golf has as much room inside as most small CUVs. Go figure.
 
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