Nitrogen vs. air....
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I am using helium in my tires and Giulia just seems to float over road bumps and expansion joints!
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Mine came filled with nitrogen, nitrogen is more inert gas as well as less sensitive to expansion with temperature changes, also molecules are larger therefore less permeability through tire rubber.....thats the story but whether or not there is any perceivable benefit to it in normal use is another question....
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Plus for us regular everyday drivers how much does nitrogen cost?
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Simple note, air is about 78% nitrogen already...the one really true “benefit” of nitrogen fill is reduced moisture in the tire. Of course, with alloys, so what?
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Love it! That’s the kind of reply I would give. Haha.
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Oh, so you're a wise guy too! Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
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Almost. There is no practical difference in the response of N2 compared to O2 to temperature or pressure changes over the temperature and pressure range that can operate a car. They both behave as ideal gases in "common" circumstances.
If a significant amount of air was permeating the rubber of the tires you would eventually end up with just N2 in the tires anyway. I don't know the relative rates of water vapor versus N2 permeation of rubber.
There is a product called "Tyresaver" which is supposed to separate water and oxygen from your fill-air. I have no idea if it works. If it does work it is a lot more practical than keeping a Nitrogen tank around.
FWIW: the rubber in tires has additives to combat the damage caused by exposure to O2 (also UV). To be most effective, these additives need to be on the surface of the rubber. When you drive the car the flexing of the tire "squeezes" the additives out, protecting the tire. Thus explaining the tire issues that sometimes are observed when a car is stored for a long period of time. Cars are for driving, not storing.
My wife is purchasing a new Honda pilot elite and we were asked if we wanted it, $199.00, the company is caled nitrofill.I was told it takes about a hour and a half it all done by machine. I had it on my ford tauris and never had to add to the tires, tires were replaced at 70k. After replacing them nitro was not a option at the tire dealer, and was always filling them. My question is this, the alfa has different tire pressure in the front then the back so I would assume that tire rotation is not a option once you put nitro in them.
Actually, whether you fill them with air or N2, I wonder if the source of moisture that causes problems is the soap solution that the guy who mounts the tire slops all over the tire bead. The way I've seen them throw that stuff around at the tire stores, I'd be surprised if there wasn't significant moisture in every tire.
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
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According to "the interweb" oxygen permeation through the casing of a tire damages the casing (I can believe this). It is less clear if water can cause similar damage (rusty steel belts?). However, the rate of damage and permeation is very low and it is primarily a concern on heavy-duty truck tires that are expected to last 100,000 miles per retread AND be usable after several retreads. Plus large on-roadtrucks runs 100+ PSI tire pressures.
Permeation of air through bicycle tires is a bigger problem. The rubber is thinner (about 1mm), the pressure is greater (I run 130PSI), and the ratio of air volume to tire surface area is smaller compared to a car tire. I have to pump up the tires weekly (10-15psi drop per week). Interestingly, I find that the first one or two bicycle tire fill ups leak down noticeably more than subsequent fill ups, perhaps because it is predominantly oxygen that is leaking out from the initial fill up?
If I read the data on the web properly, Argon should perform even better than N2. Argon atoms appear to be several times larger than N2 molecules. Dry air is 78% N2, 21% O2 and 1% Ar (round numbers). You can buy Ar at your local welding shop, just like N2. Although Argon exhibits ideal gas behavior just like N2 and O2, its dynamic behavior is different because it is mono-atomic. I do not know if that would be different better, worse or not-so's-you'ld-notice.
Filling a tubeless tire with a selected gas is not easy, as the cavity cannot be evacuated.
Permeation of air through bicycle tires is a bigger problem. The rubber is thinner (about 1mm), the pressure is greater (I run 130PSI), and the ratio of air volume to tire surface area is smaller compared to a car tire. I have to pump up the tires weekly (10-15psi drop per week). Interestingly, I find that the first one or two bicycle tire fill ups leak down noticeably more than subsequent fill ups, perhaps because it is predominantly oxygen that is leaking out from the initial fill up?
If I read the data on the web properly, Argon should perform even better than N2. Argon atoms appear to be several times larger than N2 molecules. Dry air is 78% N2, 21% O2 and 1% Ar (round numbers). You can buy Ar at your local welding shop, just like N2. Although Argon exhibits ideal gas behavior just like N2 and O2, its dynamic behavior is different because it is mono-atomic. I do not know if that would be different better, worse or not-so's-you'ld-notice.
Filling a tubeless tire with a selected gas is not easy, as the cavity cannot be evacuated.
To source/purify these special gases are not worth the effort. Air from the pump is about 80% N2. If it is true N2 is less permeable than the other gases, the other constituints will leak out anyways and you will be purifying your own N2 in the tire....
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This is true. You have all sorts of things attacking the outside of the tire accelerating the physiological age of the tire (UV, ozone, chemical exposure). But you also have this phenomena known as Intra-Carcass Pressurization (ICP), which is the excessive pressure gradient inside a tire that causes belt edge separation by accelerating the oxidative degradation of the belt compound. It is a time dependent event, but some things, like object penetration (not necessarily a puncture of the inner liner but let's say a screw that has gone part way through the belt package) can accelerate things.
See J.W. Daws, "Practical Aspects of Nitrogen Inflation", Paper presented at a Meeting of the International Tire Exhibition and Conference (ITEC), September 21-23, 2010, Paper No. 13E. for more info.
Basically, to get the benefits of nitrogen, you really need >96% concentration of pure N2 inside the tire. The only way you're going to get this is if you have two valve stems and can do a proper purge and fill and only ever top the tire off with nitrogen.
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Mine came with Nitrogen from the dealer as part of the Unrequested but Mandatory Upcharge like blinker fluid warranty. The pressure still varied greatly with temperature and low pressure light still came on when it got cold. I’ve been topping off with regular air and can’t tell any difference. Also the stupid special valve caps stic out slightly from the rim and rub on Carwash guides (touch free car wash of course).
2018 Q4 with Fiamenghi Ti exhaust, Race Mod, and Tecnico wheels.
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What is blinker fluid and why does it need a warranty?
Nitrogen is not going to make the inflation pressure of your tires constant over temperature and will not behave measurably differently from air. It is intended to reduce the rate of fill-gas leakage from the tire as well as make the tire carcass last longer. It will not make the tire tread last longer and for more people and most car tires the tread will wear out long before the tire carcass shows any sign of problem.
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My Giulia with the helium filled tires makes it sound like a Ferrari (even in A mode). With the yellow brake calipers it also looks like a Ferrari. Only problem is I don't fool anyone cuz I look British/Irish 50/50!
So I've gone back to generic/organic oxygen (gluten free). I actually check my tires at least twice a month, for 32 and 35 psi, with my quality Meiser Accu-Gage. My compact 12v batter infllator fits snugly in my trunk and keeps my tires properly inflated and tracking straight as an arrow. I use the TPMS only as a general guide to see if the tires are dropping some in PSI or for a serious quick drop in PSI. I always check the PSI screen before driving.
Nitrogen to me is like the latest Xango juice or Your Pillow hype. Sounds great but is a PITA and also the pocket book!
My first wife's carcass is full of BS and still hasn't worn out!
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