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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We just picked up our Giuala Q4 Ti with the Sport and Performance package.

This is my wife's car and we turned in a '15 Audi SQ5, and we also have a '14 C7 Corvette, '14 Audi S4, and '17 VW GTI to give a point of reference where I'm coming from.

There were no cars with the Performance Pack on the lot so this is our first time in it. To me the car is a bit frustrating and I'm hoping this is stuff I can fix:

1. Throttle lag is horrible
2. Tires are horrible
3. Even in Dynamic mode it won't hold the gears up. So in the Audi's if your in Sport/Dynamic it stays 1-2 gears up from normal, always. This still wants to shift down into the highest gear.

We'll get one of the throttle tuner boxes and replace the tires. Manually shifting it's good but I'm so used to a DCT trans have to retrain myself to manually shift because it tends to be in the wrong gear or not shift down soon enough for a corner.

I wish in the sportiest mode it would hold the higher gears gas mileage be damned.

The tires are fun from the standpoint they offer near zero grip in comparison to the capability of the chassis. So drifting even with AWD is not hard but it really needs better tires and we'll probably get PS4's if they are out in this size, or the older PSS if they are not.

There is a odd feeling to the bushings in the driveline. Suspension is firmly planted but I feel a lot of driveline movement.

Those all sound like bad things but it is the frustrating part. Very close on so many things to this really being a really inexpensive sport sedan that is much better than the competition. Especially the transmission part but hopefully some tuning can fix that.

The good parts?

The full leather interior is nice and getting the doors/dash/center console done really improves the feel of the interior. The seats are good and it is very quiet and compliant on the road.

Steering is excellent, best in class. The ATS-V I drove felt similar, in fact it felt identical to my Corvette, but maybe it is the narrower tires this feels more connected and direct. Smaller steering wheel will do that too. We drove everything out there in the class and above.

Value wise it was excellent. 51K sticker and we preferred it to everything else we drove except the M235 but my wife doesn't drive much and didn't want to dump $850 a month on a car she won't drive much when we have 3 others. The 2.0 ATS dynamically was great but the interior was horrific in quality given its price point.

We'll get better tires on it this upcoming week and see how that settles things down.
 

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I agree with one and two, hence me getting a throttle booster and changing tires.. computer will learn your drive style and adapt.. takes some getting used to but presently can say I have no complaints with shifting, and I drive super aggressive.
Congrats and good luck!
 

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When brand new the all season run flats are really bad and poor grip, but I found that after 1000 miles they improved quite a bit, still would do best with a performance summer tire obviously.

BTW do check the air pressure, as delivered most of the cars had way over spec inflation that some dealers did not correct.
 

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Agreed Ericspt - like yourself, we've got a similar build and for my wife as well. I think it's plenty for her, but of course would like more if it's me driving.... Hoping for some reputable tuners to come out with products for power/chassis improvements. For a stock car though, I'm definitely in love w/the handling.

Today was the first time I really put some time behind the wheel and found I was left wanting in the torque department at speed, and not very happy feeling the lightness on the highway - I'd like more of a solid/heavy feel at higher speed...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I agree with one and two, hence me getting a throttle booster and changing tires.. computer will learn your drive style and adapt.. takes some getting used to but presently can say I have no complaints with shifting, and I drive super aggressive.
Congrats and good luck!
What did you go with? PS4's are probably what we will go with after looking at them all.

I did not think of trans adaptation, hopefully that will help. Leaving the dealer it shifted into 3rd during a no throttle turn, then a huge pause before shifting into 2nd and going.

When brand new the all season run flats are really bad and poor grip, but I found that after 1000 miles they improved quite a bit, still would do best with a performance summer tire obviously.

BTW do check the air pressure, as delivered most of the cars had way over spec inflation that some dealers did not correct.
I checked on the way home from dinner and they were 45 all the way around, will adjust tomorrow.

Agreed Ericspt - like yourself, we've got a similar build and for my wife as well. I think it's plenty for her, but of course would like more if it's me driving.... Hoping for some reputable tuners to come out with products for power/chassis improvements. For a stock car though, I'm definitely in love w/the handling.

Today was the first time I really put some time behind the wheel and found I was left wanting in the torque department at speed, and not very happy feeling the lightness on the highway - I'd like more of a solid/heavy feel at higher speed...
Powerwise its OK. She is coming from a 400hp vehicle, granted heavier but much faster than the Giulia. If the trans works right and you can keep momentum up I think its good for what it is.

It won't be enough for her once she gets used to it. Have not driven it on the freeway yet.
 

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Would you have bought the car after test driving it or one just like it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Would you have bought the car after test driving it or one just like it?
I guess it would depend on who you are asking and the circumstances. I did not expect much different than the non-performance pack ones we drove except for the driveline bushings I mentioned. She would have for sure based on her current driving. She preferred the styling, interior, and way it drove over the next car on her list which was quite a bit more expensive.

She'll drive 7-8 thousand miles per year in this. If it was like years past where it was 15-20 per year then no, I do not think she would have. She moved down to a less expensive car because she is driving much less.

Lastly she wanted something different.

Me? No for a whole different set of reasons mostly the fact the car lacks the power I would want in a DD even though I think the chassis is excellent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Got up for an early breakfast and empty roads.

Car rotates really easily without throttle, or with it. I did not lower the pressure before we left and it was still 39 on the driver side(F/R) and 36 on the passenger side(F/R) so that has a lot to do with it.

Part of this is tires and part of it is pressure. Tires do better if you carry more speed and when the car rotates if you stay in the gas it pulls through but its an odd feeling there is a lot of rotation where you think it is going to keep going and then it stops.

Have to drive a lighter throttle too. The ESP tuning seems to very conservative so when your in a corner and hit the gas harder its very slow to ramp up. It is not applying the power at all because I assume it says at Y steering angle, and X yaw we should not give you Z throttle.

So much lighter throttle was much faster and since the lock to lock is so short have to be much easier with the wheel also.

For all the issues one I thing I like is nobody tunes cars like this anymore. All on the understeer and safe side so its nice to have something different. So many cars are easy to drive fast and while fun don't really have a lot of driver engagement.

My C7 is 740hp and you can stand on it mid corner, you'll feel it move a slight amount, the ESLD kicks in and pushes the car through without ESP interfering. It is the easiest car for anyone to drive fast and you have to really push it to find the limit.

My S4 the AWD system ignores the ESP completely in Dynamic mode. You get exactly what you put into the throttle to all wheels regardless of what else is happening. So it is a different experience in that you push through the first part, pull through the second of a lower speed corner just standing on the gas.

Huge contrast in tuning. I'd guess without the aggressive ESP you would see a lot of curbed and crashed Giulia's, it is not what the average driver is used to.

If they made the trans tuning more aggressive it would be pretty damned good. With the right trans tuning the pedal softness becomes less of an issue. Even in manual the problem is your trying to get it to go down 5 years from 7th to 2nd. Have to plan far ahead of time and can't do it as your getting close to the corner. If it was more aggressive with its downshifts and at 30-40mph was already in 3rd then a tap to second depending on the corner would be much improved.

Being in the right gear for the corner also seems to reduce the rotation even though your accelerating more.

It's rush to top gear is annoying to. At 40mph lift off the gas and instantly its in top gear, barely touch the pedal and it jumps down one. All in the name of fuel economy but wish they had a more aggressive map.
 

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If you like driving in automatic mode but want more aggression try shifting it in to manual on N mode it will take the gears closer to redline before upshifting for you on its own you'll still have to downshift coming into a turn and it doesn't like to drop gears over 4500 RPM
 

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Keep in mind that she's a heavy saloon. I have the Giulia Ti Q2, which is RWD while yours is AWD. Both have an LSD, active suspension and the paddle shifters.

I've had my Q2 up in the canyons. She's nice, for a 4,000 pound saloon. She's not a Corvette, 911 or even my 4C. She should be a neutral handling car on the track. I doubt I'll ever track mine though.

In Dynamic Mode, she changes, everything. Steering gets heavier. Dampers firm up. Throttle response and turbo lag change to a more responsive action. Transmission logic becomes more aggressive, she'll drop down a few gear from N mode when D is selected. The torque converter tightens up and shifts become firm and crisp.

Then, you can put the tranny in a manual mode by pushing the joystick to the left. You control the shifting with the paddles from here. She won't shift unless you tell her to, except for self preservation (ie, over revving).

Tires, well, nothing special there. I've got new wheels and tires on order. Should be here next week.

There is a 505 hp version of the Giulia called Quadrifoglio. Not available in AWD though. The DNA controller has a Race setting which disables most of the nannies. I think the Ti should have includes the Race Mode, but it doesn't. And, there's always the Alfa Romeo 4C if you want a serious sports car.

I'm holding out for the tuners to start supplying some goodies. I think that with a new intake, exhaust and ECU, 350 hp will be possible. The ECU tune should address turbo lag and throttle response.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Keep in mind that she's a heavy saloon. I have the Giulia Ti Q2, which is RWD while yours is AWD. Both have an LSD, active suspension and the paddle shifters.

I've had my Q2 up in the canyons. She's nice, for a 4,000 pound saloon. She's not a Corvette, 911 or even my 4C. She should be a neutral handling car on the track. I doubt I'll ever track mine though.

I'm holding out for the tuners to start supplying some goodies. I think that with a new intake, exhaust and ECU, 350 hp will be possible. The ECU tune should address turbo lag and throttle response.
According to Alfa the QV weighs 3360lbs so I would put the AWD Ti around 3500-3600 but could not find it anywhere.

There is enough power to have fun if the trans were more agreeable. Hopefully tunes will be forthcoming.

Would have loved to do RWD but this is primary a winter car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Tires coming as soon as the tire shop gets them in.

Trans did adapt a bit but not being able to turn off the ESP is a huge issue for me. My S4 would do this same thing unless the ESP was off. In a turn around so the steering wheel is at a decent angle. Pull out, hit hit the gas and turn the wheel more, nothing...engine just makes no power and your sitting there. On my S4 if I turned off the ESP(well it put it in Sport but basically removed traction control) you could do donuts from a dead stop.

I pulled out today and almost got hit, good 2 seconds before the power came back on.

Got used to the steering but it is so fast you tend to want to go farther into a corner but then the tires become a huge deficiency the later into a corner you go.

Lots of lateral movement in hard braking too, again hopefully the tires fix it.

Very strange car overall...I'm comparing it to my other cars and there is a ramp I take with a banked exit on the ramp and even the exit onto the road is banked and its 3 lanes with zero traffic. Entry into the first corner I was 6mph higher than my S4 but 8mph slower than my C7 which is a huge considering the difference between the other 2. Tires were working pretty hard but I thought with better tires I might be able to match the entry speed of my C7.

But then you have to brake pretty decently for the switch back and it all fell apart. Car got squirrely under braking, tires were screaming, wasn't in the right spot, it was a mess.

I have also considered that the car is so quiet and you don't have a real sense of speed. I've considered I'm driving way faster than I think because in my other cars I was so used to them it was all feel.

This is also the only car I've ever driven that you can get to over steer at 15mph with no real torque.
 

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According to Alfa the QV weighs 3360lbs so I would put the AWD Ti around 3500-3600 but could not find it anywhere.

There is enough power to have fun if the trans were more agreeable. Hopefully tunes will be forthcoming.

Would have loved to do RWD but this is primary a winter car.
3360lbs was in the original press release and does not reflect reality. In reality QV Giulia weighs between 3700 and 3800 lbs, depending on the options installed. You can pay lots of $$$ to get to the lower end of that range (CCM brakes, Sparco seats, retrofit Tecnico rims).

The standard Giulia weighs in the 3350 to 3550 lb range, depending on the options, according to folks that have posted their weigh ins and/or the documentation that came with the vehicle. The sunroof and Q4 options appear to be the main weight adders.

I doubt that the transmission is the cause of any performance problems with Giulia. It is the ECU, transmission controller and the programming and interfaces that Alfa came up with that appear to be problematic.
 

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Tires coming as soon as the tire shop gets them in.

Trans did adapt a bit but not being able to turn off the ESP is a huge issue for me. My S4 would do this same thing unless the ESP was off. In a turn around so the steering wheel is at a decent angle. Pull out, hit hit the gas and turn the wheel more, nothing...engine just makes no power and your sitting there. On my S4 if I turned off the ESP(well it put it in Sport but basically removed traction control) you could do donuts from a dead stop.

I pulled out today and almost got hit, good 2 seconds before the power came back on.

Got used to the steering but it is so fast you tend to want to go farther into a corner but then the tires become a huge deficiency the later into a corner you go.

Lots of lateral movement in hard braking too, again hopefully the tires fix it.

Very strange car overall...I'm comparing it to my other cars and there is a ramp I take with a banked exit on the ramp and even the exit onto the road is banked and its 3 lanes with zero traffic. Entry into the first corner I was 6mph higher than my S4 but 8mph slower than my C7 which is a huge considering the difference between the other 2. Tires were working pretty hard but I thought with better tires I might be able to match the entry speed of my C7.

But then you have to brake pretty decently for the switch back and it all fell apart. Car got squirrely under braking, tires were screaming, wasn't in the right spot, it was a mess.

I have also considered that the car is so quiet and you don't have a real sense of speed. I've considered I'm driving way faster than I think because in my other cars I was so used to them it was all feel.

This is also the only car I've ever driven that you can get to over steer at 15mph with no real torque.
That last part seems inconsistent with the always-on ESP. What am I not understanding?

Not being able to deactivate ESP and traction control is also an issue for me. Getting stuck in snow and not being able to rock the car out will be enormously annoying with AWD at my disposal. And I'd still like to see some indication how much torque is being delivered to the fronts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
OP: what did you do to get your Corvette to 740 HP!!!!!?
Thanks,
Novi 1500 Supercharger and methanol. The SC itself will get most to around 650hp but you start to run out of fuel and your making more heat then power. The Meth gets you an extra 80-100, is a chemical intercooler, and provides additional octane/fueling.

It has stock exhaust right now, dead stock right down to the mufflers. Going with headers will bump it another 80hp but the car gets loud, really loud. Not sure I want to do that yet or not.

That is about the physical limit of the stock motor if you want it to live. 700rwhp or around 830hp crank. I've got 18K on mine since the install and zero issues. People are making over 700rwhp but are on borrowed time without pistons/rods and fueling.


That last part seems inconsistent with the always-on ESP. What am I not understanding?

Not being able to deactivate ESP and traction control is also an issue for me. Getting stuck in snow and not being able to rock the car out will be enormously annoying with AWD at my disposal. And I'd still like to see some indication how much torque is being delivered to the fronts.
I think its in the pedal tuning. But if you take a sharp low speed corner, like a turn around trying to go into the nearest lane, light throttle and it'll rotate.

Give is too much pedal and it just dies.
 

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Novi 1500 Supercharger and methanol. The SC itself will get most to around 650hp but you start to run out of fuel and your making more heat then power. The Meth gets you an extra 80-100, is a chemical intercooler, and provides additional octane/fueling.

It has stock exhaust right now, dead stock right down to the mufflers. Going with headers will bump it another 80hp but the car gets loud, really loud. Not sure I want to do that yet or not.

That is about the physical limit of the stock motor if you want it to live. 700rwhp or around 830hp crank. I've got 18K on mine since the install and zero issues. People are making over 700rwhp but are on borrowed time without pistons/rods and fueling.
So cool that the Novi name is still being used. Are you aware it's the name of one of Detroit's suburbs?

I think its in the pedal tuning. But if you take a sharp low speed corner, like a turn around trying to go into the nearest lane, light throttle and it'll rotate.

Give is too much pedal and it just dies.
I'll see if I can duplicate. May demand more finesse than I can muster.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So cool that the Novi name is still being used. Are you aware it's the name of one of Detroit's suburbs?

I'll see if I can duplicate. May demand more finesse than I can muster.
Yes I'm 25 minutes from Novi and have a few customers there. We used to live in West Bloomfield about 5 minutes from Novi.

Now we're 5 miles north of FCA headquarters.
 

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Yes I'm 25 minutes from Novi and have a few customers there. We used to live in West Bloomfield about 5 minutes from Novi.

Now we're 5 miles north of FCA headquarters.
I used to live in West Bloomfield. Now I'm about 10 miles south of FCA's North American HQ. I'll keep an eye out for you.
 
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